Wrong Use Of Check Chain?

[nksyd]

Ok there has probably been a LOT of topics on this but my searching is not coming up with exactly what I need.

My girl is a very strong puller. She was rescued at approximately 1.5 yrs of age and had evidently not been on a lead before. For the past year I have been using a halti with her as it’s the only way I can keep her from pulling me halfway across the city! We are also going to the local dog training club and there I used a check chain (that they advised and provided) and I do use this on training walks. It does seem to work at the time but I am constantly ‘checking’. I’m also alarmed to have read somewhere that I’ve been using the check chain in the wrong position ie, up high on her neck?! This was what I was shown to do and now I’m worried it’s been harming her.

We also do the stopping and starting, and changing direction when she starts to pull but it still doesn’t quite get it. In many other ways she’s a very smart Labrador but seems to have ADD as soon as she’s out walking! Any help welcome.

[Agility Dogs]

Ok there has probably been a LOT of topics on this but my searching is not coming up with exactly what I need.

My girl is a very strong puller. She was rescued at approximately 1.5 yrs of age and had evidently not been on a lead before. For the past year I have been using a halti with her as it’s the only way I can keep her from pulling me halfway across the city! We are also going to the local dog training club and there I used a check chain (that they advised and provided) and I do use this on training walks. It does seem to work at the time but I am constantly ‘checking’. I’m also alarmed to have read somewhere that I’ve been using the check chain in the wrong position ie, up high on her neck?! This was what I was shown to do and now I’m worried it’s been harming her.

We also do the stopping and starting, and changing direction when she starts to pull but it still doesn’t quite get it. In many other ways she’s a very smart Labrador but seems to have ADD as soon as she’s out walking! Any help welcome.

Have you considered using other methods to teach loose lead walking? Perhaps the check just isn't the right way to go for your pup. Maybe clicker training might be more effective in this case?

Otherwise, when I was taught to use a check chain they told me that I wouldn't necessarily harm my dog with it in the wrong position (like you have described), but it would not be as effective. If you are concerned have a chat to one of the people at your club with a bit more experience.

[Joan of Arc]

Not sure if you are prepared to risk a finger or two at first :D but I would try check chain, make sure it is up high almost behind her ears an dcarry lots of treats. Just practice in a small area first and carry a bunch or treats in your left hand - keep it down and forward of your left leg so that she knows the heel position. Keeping treating her while she is in the correct position - if she moves, give the heel command, check and when she returns to the correct position - use a bridge word such as YES!!! and treat.

I know it sounds simple, and easy but if you persist she will come round - after all Labradors are not only very intelligent and easy to train but food is thier greatest motivator.

[Nekhbet]

if you put the check chain high up behind the ears it is NOT there to be checked hard. You are constantly checking because they are not hard enough and you are not keeping her attention. Walk where you want, let her go off then give her ONE good correction. And I mean a good one wherever the collar naturally falls, then walk off and say 'come on!' happily. Corrections only come from the collar, guidance and encouragement come from your voice.

the reason check chains DONT work is that people keep the dog on such a short, tight leash. Loose lead, as soon as there is pressure relax and *click* check the chain. A dog cannot learn positions before it understands what the collar and leash are all about and few people teach it. Just let the dog walk on a long loose lead and make the dog follow you with your voice and some incentive, change directions, change pace and let the dog follow. If it bolts off then check.

constant pressure means a correction chain doesnt work. Its an all or nothing impliment. Mercedes for that high a position I use Dominant Dog collare (also known as Ezy Dog lead extensions ) not commonly used here in Aus but I get good control and use them for aggression also as little strength is needed to make a correction AND without damaging the sensitive bones in the dogs throat.

[moohmooh]

Hey I don't want to start a debate but if the halti was working for you why aren't yo uallowed to continue to use it? I thought they were now a widely accepted training equipemnt?

[nksyd]

Thank you so much for the advice; very much appreciated and I will take it all on board and revise how I use the check chain.

So... I am correct in thinking now that the check should NOT be up hign on the neck but wherever it falls naturally?

As for clicker training, I do have one at home so I may revisit that with her too if I continue to get the checking wrong.

I will also use the food to keep her attention on me (I swear she has ADD when we're out and about..!) and hope not to lose any fingers

moohmooh - at my dog training club they cannot advance into higher classes with a halti, and also the halti is good as it prevents her from pulling too much but it doesn't really teach her to stop pulling. Ideally I'd like to get to the stage when I need neither a halti or a check chain as she'll have learnt to walk nicely to heal.. but that is a long way off yet...

[huski]

nksyd - you could always try a martingale collar which can be fitted to sit higher up on the neck so it won't slide back down. I find them much more effective than check chains.

Edited July 30, 2009 by huski

[STICK]

Try a check and a harness,use a 2 clip lead,have 1 clipped to check chain and other on harness.Then you can keep a bit of pressure on the harness and have a bit of slack on the check.If that makes sense.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: It really sounds like your putting a lot of emphasis on the tool alone, the way the collar is used plus the method applied makes all the difference in the teaching of the loose leash walk.

Once the exercise is taught, to keep the dog performing it well you must sure the rest of the dogs life is in balance, making sure that the dog is mentally stimulated will keep that balance.

[Aidan]

I agree with K9 Force's comment about mental stimulation, particularly with dogs who don't walk well on leash naturally.

I treat "walking on a loose leash" and "heeling in obedience class" as two different behaviours (which they are). Teaching a lab to heel with a carefully placed food lure which later becomes a hand signal is like shooting fish in a barrel. You can then pretty it up with the clicker if necessary.

[nksyd]

Thanks K9 - I do try to keep her mentally stimulated. We play lots of games at home and at the park and we also have training time at home (recently perfecting her drop which has taken time I must confess). When I am not home she has lots of toys (rotated regularly) and her kong. In obedience class (we're only in class one) she is very good at keeping her eyes on me and repsonding to her name; same when she is at home. Her repsonsiveness is impressive. It's only when we're out and walking on leash. Is there other things I should / could be doing? Any suggestions definitely welcome.

Oh, and also as I mentioned before we have two different types of walking - we use the halti for going jogging and also when out for a casual stroll with friends and use the check chain for training walks. Not sure if that's the right thing to do or not?

[Steve K9Pro]

NKsyd: hanks K9 - I do try to keep her mentally stimulated. We play lots of games at home and at the park and we also have training time at home (recently perfecting her drop which has taken time I must confess). When I am not home she has lots of toys (rotated regularly) and her kong.

K9: I prefer to steer away from the easy play, as many (even driven) dogs gain very little mental stimulation from say throwing a ball.

I use a technique known as training in drive. See a thread I wrote Here.

Training in drive achieves drive satisfaction, which for a driven dog leads to balance of drives, which is ... bliss.

In obedience class (we're only in class one) she is very good at keeping her eyes on me and repsonding to her name; same when she is at home. Her repsonsiveness is impressive. It's only when we're out and walking on leash. Is there other things I should / could be doing? Any suggestions definitely welcome.

K9: The concern is that if you don't have control you wont diminish her excitability toward other distractions. whilst she knows she has a chance, she will always try!

Dogs are the eternal optimist.

Oh, and also as I mentioned before we have two different types of walking - we use the halti for going jogging and also when out for a casual stroll with friends and use the check chain for training walks. Not sure if that's the right thing to do or not?

K9: It isnt advisable to jog on a halter, they can & have caused injuries to the neck & its more likely when jogging.

The other thing is that it promotes two sets of rules or a degree of flexibility and when in training yo must be consistent.

[nksyd]

Thanks again K9 - I had a quick look at the drive thread but will have to have a proper read tonight (42 pages to read). I am not sure exactly what training in drive means so hopefully I will find out the technique in those pages?

I'm concerned now about the jogging with her in a halti as we've done this for the past year. When we jog she runs naturally in a heel position and on a loose lead. Only occasionally does she pull away (and luckily only once has tripped me up!). I feel I have good control over her with the halti and I worry about running with the check chain as my control (at this stage) is lacking when using that. We run most days and I would hate to stop that but maybe I should for a while and just concentrate purely on the training?

[Steve K9Pro]

Thanks again K9 - I had a quick look at the drive thread but will have to have a proper read tonight (42 pages to read). I am not sure exactly what training in drive means so hopefully I will find out the technique in those pages?

K9: There isn't so much technique there as there is an explanation of how prey drive training works, my version of it anyway. A number of years ago I used my experience & research to formulate my own training methods including training in drive. I have used those techniques with great success an many dogs, including many members dogs here. There are many ways to train in drive, some just I find better than others.

I'm concerned now about the jogging with her in a halti as we've done this for the past year. When we jog she runs naturally in a heel position and on a loose lead. Only occasionally does she pull away (and luckily only once has tripped me up!). I feel I have good control over her with the halti and I worry about running with the check chain as my control (at this stage) is lacking when using that. We run most days and I would hate to stop that but maybe I should for a while and just concentrate purely on the training?

K9: Your probably less likely to cause any injury with the check chain, I dont use halters at al & dont use checks either. This article may help you understand

I dont think cutting back on play or exercise is the right thing to dfo with your dog, but then again I havent met your dog so cant for sure say mcuh more than I have so far.

This article may also help understand training in drive with less than 42 pages

[nksyd]

Right, I've some bedtime reading to do; thanks for that.

Also, just realised you're based in Kurrajong and I'm long overdue a visit there soon to my friend's restaurant so might try and tie it in with a training lesson for Molly too!

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Sure that's no problem, book well in advance though, the soonest we have now is the end of October for standard consults.

You would be able to learn what you need to do in terms of drive training & I would teach you how fix that leash pulling in a few minutes.

The bottom of this page shows what your dog should be walking like.

[newfsie]

Having had a couple of rescue dogs and the last two being fully grown newfoundlands. i have learned the trick never to allow them to straight line and get into a towing match with you.

I was taught the trick to have the dog close to you....Use all the heeling instructions of check-chain and reward. But if you find the dog suddenly starting to pull. Disengage the hind-quarter. Now if you are a horse rider, which i am, you will understand this instantly. it works well when you keep the dog close and use your knee to push the hindquarter (flank). The dog will loose it's straight-line action and the head will come around to you. It often gives the dog a moment and you can get control back. we have used this with both our newfs in the early training days and they were both huge pullers with no manners and training at all.

It does not hurt and just stops the towing along. it is however best to not get into these pulling sessions.

Annabelle definitely does not pull anymore..........Basic obedience has been a god send to us. And we are now trying to get our CCD