Toilet Training "out The Window" At 7 /12 Months?

[LizT]

My 7 1/2 months old Cavalier King Charles Puppy is peeing in the house. She seemed to be house trained completely at 16 weeks and prior to that she used those Puppy Pee Pads in her pen. It driving me nuts, I even took her to the vets as I suspected she might have an UTI so she had a course of antibiotics and seemed to improved a bit but still goes where she pleases........brat! We take her outside (as we do with our 22 months old bitch, who pees on command and never in the house) but she doesn't take advantage of the opportunity and we wait...and wait...and wait. So I put her in her pen (which she jumped out of yesterday so have moved nearby armchair so she is foiled now Haha) And then take her outside again...Hurray finally a pee and then 20 minutes later she wees on the floor in the house ARRRGGGHHH!!! :D

Is it because she is due to come into season?? Didn't have this problem with older girl?? And why do men always find a pee puddle via their unslippered socked foot??

[bobchic]

I have no advice sorry.. But when I read the title I really did think this was about wanting to have the dog wee out the window... Thought it was a bit strange lol

Goodluck with the weeing though.. We have a puppy who has just started weeing everywhere worse then usual.. I understand the frustration...

[Miranda]

I think you need to go back to basics and train her as if she was an 8 weeks old puppy, it doesn't sound as if she was ever completely trained in the first place. I don't class a dog as completely house trained until it's 6 months old, even though they may appear to be trained at 16 weeks I still keep an eye on them and put them out at regular intervals as even one mistake inside can set them back. I would never train a dog to use puppy pads or newspaper inside the house, IMO it only complicates matters, you're saying that it's ok for the puppy to soil inside when you're trying to train them to go outside, very confusing for the puppy. Also it's not a good idea to leave a dog in a puppy pen for so long that they have to soil in the pen, take them out before they have to go otherwise you're once again telling them that it's ok to go inside the house.

So take her outside every hour or so, after sleeping, eating and playing. If you can't supervise confine her to a crate, there's less room than in a pen and dogs don't like to soil where they sleep, however don't leave her in there for so long that she has no alternative but to soil in the crate. I don't think that coming into season has anything to do with it, I've have many entire females and although they do tend to urinate more often prior to coming in I've never had a bitch that started urinating inside.

[Dogsfevr]

I agree with Miranda.Toilet training doesnt stop till 6 months here even if there perfect early on.

You need to go back to basics & this time for exactly what you expect.

It could have to do with coming into season & she is letting the other bitch now this.Is she a dominate bitch ??

Having said that our girls dont we inside either

Make sure the diet isnt making her so thirsty that she needs to over pee.

pay attention to when she goes,often there is a cycle of when they try it & be a step ahead.

Does she have a doggy door to use or does she have to wait to go out??

Also if you think she improved on anti biotics i would be taking a urine sample to the vet & getting it tested.She may very well still have a UTI that hasnt cleared yet.

[LizT]

I have no advice sorry.. But when I read the title I really did think this was about wanting to have the dog wee out the window... Thought it was a bit strange lol

Goodluck with the weeing though.. We have a puppy who has just started weeing everywhere worse then usual.. I understand the frustration...

Amazing what one can do with word isn't it!

[LizT]

I think you need to go back to basics and train her as if she was an 8 weeks old puppy, it doesn't sound as if she was ever completely trained in the first place. I don't class a dog as completely house trained until it's 6 months old, even though they may appear to be trained at 16 weeks I still keep an eye on them and put them out at regular intervals as even one mistake inside can set them back. I would never train a dog to use puppy pads or newspaper inside the house, IMO it only complicates matters, you're saying that it's ok for the puppy to soil inside when you're trying to train them to go outside, very confusing for the puppy. Also it's not a good idea to leave a dog in a puppy pen for so long that they have to soil in the pen, take them out before they have to go otherwise you're once again telling them that it's ok to go inside the house.

So take her outside every hour or so, after sleeping, eating and playing. If you can't supervise confine her to a crate, there's less room than in a pen and dogs don't like to soil where they sleep, however don't leave her in there for so long that she has no alternative but to soil in the crate. I don't think that coming into season has anything to do with it, I've have many entire females and although they do tend to urinate more often prior to coming in I've never had a bitch that started urinating inside.

Yes, I agree we have gone back to basics and are treating her like a "Baby Puppy" again. I only used the Puppy Pads until she was about 16 weeks old and she ONLY ever peed on them and I found them to be really great UNTIL she started shredding them and by this time she appeared to have better bladder control so they were not put in her pen (which isn't very large as I don't use all the panels but really only big enough for a bed and Plastic pee pad holder (now gone). She has never peed in her pen except on the pad when younger. She APPEARED to be house trained from 16 weeks so long as I took her out regulary. No they don't have access to the yard on their own (numerous reasons) but as I am at home during the day (night shift worker) they sleep on the bed with me for a few hours and then are taken out on awakening and at regular intervals. I mostly take the pup out as the older Cav asks to go out and holds on for longer intervals. You said you didn't consider a pup under six months house trained but she is 7 and a half months old now and whilst I didn't feel that she could be trusted completely (at six months) and did take her out more often than the older bitch I thought we were getting there!

The reason I wondered about the "coming into season" bit is the Vet did ask me if she had had her first season yet as he said they sometimes urinate frequently leading up to it. AND going over a book about Cavaliers it also mentioned that bitches coming into season tend to urinate more frequently. I've had many dogs over the years (various breeds and cross breeds, both sexes entires and desexed) and never come across this before?? (I'm 48 in human years!)

Anyway I'm using the "back to square one principle" taking comfort in knowing that it will be reinforcing lessons that should be familiar rather than starting from scratch. I mean if I can house train a 2 year old dog that never set foot indoors (past pet) without too many dramas and toilet train human babies (not as advanced as dogs mind you! LOL)

[pmiller]

Maybe ask in the CKCS thread regarding coming into season, I always get good advice there.

If it is any consolation, I still take my 8 month old boy out every couple of hours, but have finally been able to relax and not feel I have to keep my eye on him every minute!

[Erny]

I even took her to the vets as I suspected she might have an UTI so she had a course of antibiotics and seemed to improved a bit but still goes where she pleases........brat!

Were tests conducted to determine UTI, or were antibiotics prescribed 'on the off chance' ? :rolleyes:

ETA: And if the antibiotics "improved [the urinating] a bit", did you actually get her checked to ensure that the UTI (if indeed that's what she had) had been cleared up?

And what are you using to clean up with?

She's not a "brat" - it's just that somewhere down the line the messages you are trying to send her are not being understood properly and/or she does still have a medical reason as to why she is unable to 'hang on'.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Erny

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Maybe a stupid question but why is she in a pen at her age?

[LizT]

No Erny, she isn't a brat at all. She's a wonderful, affectionate, georgous, adorable little girl dog with a huge capacity to learn.

And no she didn't have a urine test, she was given the course of antibiotics as given the frquency she was urinating it was the most likely senario and worth trying first in this case. The frequency of urination is more stable and less often now. It probably took a few more days for the medication to kick in. She had been licking herself at her vulva quite a bit also?? She had been peeing as much as every 20 minutes when I took her to see the Vet. I've never collected urine from a puppy before (only a human baby where you stick on a plastic tubing to collect the urine after they've gone. How on earth do you collect from a "Chew everything and put everything you find in your mouth" type of puppy??

I only used a mild disenfectant and detergent for polished boards to clean up. Thank goodness no carpet in family areas. Any suggestions on that front?

Dogmad, I still have a puppy pen set up in the corner of the family room as this is where I put her when she is left alone unattended as she doesn't pee in that but will pee on the floor if I go out shopping or take kids to school etc. and I also don't feel she's old enough to be left to her own curious devices if no-one is in the house. She also has a great capacity for exploring!!

Actually today I bought a wire crate as we found out on the weekend that she's a fantastic free jumper and she repeatedly leapt out of the pen on the weekend (while I was making dinner, we were eating, outside feeding horses and so on). So I am back to square one as I mentioned previously in house training her as she will still urinate on the floor if I don't watch her like a hawk. Guess she's just going to take a bit more watching than previous dogs did. Like kids, all different characters learning differently. I hope I'm not giving her mixed messages as I do try to stay consistent with taking her out and praising her when she goes. I also use a trigger word when asking her to urinte.

Edited August 3, 2009 by LizT

[tlc]

Out of the four of mine 3 of them were toilet trained by 6 months but one took a lot longer and wasnt reliable till 9 months.

Also with one of mine, she was great and would go to the door and hardly ever had an accident in the house apart from if we didnt see her at the door (she never made a sound) we would find a puddle, so I decided to teach er to use a bell to let us know if she wanted to go out. We never looked back, it only took her a day to learn to ring the bell after I showed her a few times and now if she needs to go she rings the bell, great for the middle of the night. and the other dogs use the bell to apart from one who would rather voice her need to go to the loo...

They also ring the bell if the cat needs to come in!!

Good luck with your pup, the bell may be worth a try, but if she is coming into season it may be just par for the course. also if she did have a UTI, it may not be cleared up.

[LizT]

How very clever of you and your dogs! What type of bell?? How did you teach her? Puts a different light on "going for a tinkle"?

[tlc]

The bell I use is just like a mini cow bell but any bell would do, I just hung it on the door with a piece of string and when I was about to take Tully out for a wee, I just touched her foot on it so that once she went out I hoped she would make the connection bell = outside, lots of praise etc. I never used treats for toilet training as I just think it is something that comes naturally, so I just used lot of praise. Tully doesnt touch the bell woth her foot she uses her nose and the other dogs are the same, but either way she got the idea, started one night and the next she was doing it on her own and I never taught the others they just picked it up off her. A lot of people said it would end up and attention thing and they would be ringing it all the time for attention but they dont. Like I said Tully will ring the bell if the cats at the door, also in the wee hours of the morning if she is asleep under the bed (this is where she sleeps half the night) and wants to get on the bed she will ring the bell to wake me cause she waits to be asked to get on the bed, so she has to ring the bell to wake me to tell her to get on the bed, which is crazy to me cause I just think to myself "just jump up and dont bother walking me. "but she wont unless I say it is ok.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Part of the problem will lie with your cleaning techniques - using the right stuff is crucial! Here's some housetraining info and I've housetrained well over 50 dogs myself aged between 1 and 14 years with this method plus untold fostered/adopted dogs.

HOUSETRAINING TIPS

Ok - first thing to do is decide on the command (I call it “do wees”) you will repeat over and over. You have to really focus on the dog for about 2-3 days to be successful. You have a pocketful of special treats on hand all the time for the first 2-3 days.

Walk the dog several times a day and every time the dog wees, you get very excited and keep saying “Good boy/girl, do wees, do wees” – give the dog treats every time.

First thing in the morning, last thing at night and every time you see the dog eat or drink (both precursors to weeing) whisk the dog into the garden and repeat the command “do wees”. Get very excited and present treats every time dog goes.

The dog’s aim in life is to please you. If the dog should have an accident inside the house – say NOTHING at all. The dog soon gets the idea that when he/she goes outside you are really, really pleased and he/she gets rewarded.

NB: Please note that the smell of urine must be properly removed for any housetraining to be successful. There are products on the market such as “Urine Off” but they are very expensive. A mix of white vinegar and water is a much cheaper alternative and should work for tiles and other surfaces although you should always take care with wood etc. For carpet/rugs, I use either a mixture of Napisan/water or bicarb of soda and water. I completely soak the stain using a dab on technique with a cloth. When it is very wet, I use an old towel to soak up the excess moisture. Again, be careful on any expensive carpet/rug, I have never had any problems but I cannot guarantee any method here.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

You could collect a urine sample by getting a plastic medication syringe (chemists sell them) and sucking up the pee!

[Sahla]

TLC - This is hillarious!!!!! What a great idea! Well done on getting your pups/dogs to master that!!

[LizT]

Thanks Dogmad, these are all training methods I have been using so glad to know I'm still on the right track (amazing what changes over the years). Never had any problems "getting the message across" before, that's probably why I'm so frustrated about this now. Although I've never used food as a reward to toileting, just heaps of lavishing praise. Not really big on using food as a training aid.

The frequency has now eased up to what would be considered "normal" which is helpful. I've used Vinegar and water on tiles, lino and carpet in the past to remove any odour a dog can smell but am also not so sure about wood as it could be too acidic for the polyurathane varish and make it cloudy??