RubyStar Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 How do you (clicker) train motivation? Thus my experience with our first labrador. She achieved CDX. At the time I was .....quite.....happy, but after owing a further labrador who at 7 months being in the run off for best in trial, realised .......concentrate on dogs with high innate motivation/drive. Yet another reason why police etc...require dogs with a strong retrieving drive (and great temperament). Also health! Sorry, I'm not sure I completely understand what you're trying to say Are you saying it can be done? Or depends on the drive in the dog? I have one Labrador who is smart, picks things up easy but lacks motivation. The other, takes longer to pick things up but her motivation is way up there. Sigh! Wish I could take the good things from each dog and roll them into one super duper Labrador obedience machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) Hey RS it can be done you can achieve as much as you want with a dog whos inate motivation/drive is lower. Ness is believe it or not totally the same as your girl - won't muck around or play with me and its pretty much only about the food. She cares about very little in life other than to eat . She doesn't even care much for toys unless its to shred the soft toys which Kenzie loves so your one step up on me in that regard. Edited July 30, 2009 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Are you saying it can be done? I think depends on the level you wish to obtain with your dog. I have much rather a highly motivated dumb dog. Mind you feel a bit awkward discussing dumb dogs, as each of us has varied opinions in what is considered dumb or intelligent. More often than not, we base our inteligence tests in human terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Hey RS it can be done you can achieve as much as you want with a dog whos inate motivation/drive is lower. Ness is believe it or not totally the same as your girl - won't muck around or play with me and its pretty much only about the food. She cares about very little in life other than to eat . She doesn't even care much for toys unless its to shred the soft toys which Kenzie loves so your one step up on me in that regard. Not unlike my dog - if I didn't train with food she wouldn't be interested. However, she has a reasonable amount of drive and wants to work, because I use food to motivate her. She loves training because it involves food Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 She loves training because it involves food Yep, that is Ruby, too! She works her little booty off to the max sometimes if she knows payment is well worth it You can see her try really hard! With Millie, if I show her the good stuff (ie. dinner) she won't do a damn thing for me. All she can think about is the food. I have to train her with mundane treats and have no problem hiding them on her as she just loves to be there with me most of the time. Perhaps I should just be spending all my effort training her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 Hey RS it can be done you can achieve as much as you want with a dog whos inate motivation/drive is lower. Ness is believe it or not totally the same as your girl - won't muck around or play with me and its pretty much only about the food. She cares about very little in life other than to eat . She doesn't even care much for toys unless its to shred the soft toys which Kenzie loves so your one step up on me in that regard. Gonna pick your training brains when you come to Perth, then Are you saying it can be done? I think depends on the level you wish to obtain with your dog. I have much rather a highly motivated dumb dog. Mind you feel a bit awkward discussing dumb dogs, as each of us has varied opinions in what is considered dumb or intelligent. More often than not, we base our inteligence tests in human terms. I know what you mean, I enjoy training Millie more as she just wants to be there most of the time. She isn't dumb, though, just not as switched on to learning new things like Ruby is. But if I clicker train her and shape things with her a bit more like I have done with Ruby, I think she will learn how to learn and has the potential to be pretty good... just a shame she's stuck with me as a handler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 She loves training because it involves food Yep, that is Ruby, too! She works her little booty off to the max sometimes if she knows payment is well worth it You can see her try really hard! With Millie, if I show her the good stuff (ie. dinner) she won't do a damn thing for me. All she can think about is the food. I have to train her with mundane treats and have no problem hiding them on her as she just loves to be there with me most of the time. Perhaps I should just be spending all my effort training her You should look at doing some food based drive training... Daisy really enjoys doing it For me, consistency was the problem. If she is focused on me (and the food) she is excellent, 110% focus and works really well. Unfortunately that didn't happen all the time and her urge to scent would take over and I'd have to fight her to get her focus back. I knew there was no way I could trial her like that because if we went somewhere new (or if even if we trialled at our club and a particular scent got her attention!) and she caught a scent all our previous training would go out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 RubyStar so you trying to suggest I need to come to the nationals :D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 I was actually suggesting that you need to stop procrastinating and just move to Perth already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Goodonya . I know I just need to line up a job before I come and you need to finish your place :D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 With Millie, if I show her the good stuff (ie. dinner) she won't do a damn thing for me. You must be lumping not rewarding for each required behaviour. If you put her food dish down, with a little dinner, do you ask her to heel, then release? If you put her food dish down, with a little dinner, do you ask her to sit, then release? etc etc etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsablue Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Well I put it in brags that my dog is my first dog ever so is my first trialling dog. She got her CD in five tries and went well with three firsts. She had five goes at Open and got her CDX. We took 6 months to learn UD and she had 5 goes at that too. Then it was OC in the days when you needed at least 3 firsts and 5 scores over 185. This took longer because she enjoyed it so much she'd fly around doing great work but often slipped up, like taking the bar jump twice or some other "mad moment". She got her OC with 5 1sts and no score under 190. She never got a pass under 185, just lots of crazy nqs. We did another year and qualified for Top Dog, then started training for UDX. By then her jumping days were over, she had a crook disk in her spine and managed to recover enough to get her UDX title in June this year at age 10. She is a cattle dog cross with a big heart and a good brain. I was very lucky the day I found her at the RSPCA, a gorgeous 4 month old puppy. She was easy to train and I had a great teacher and lots of help from the Mornington Obed Dog Club. I intend to do a few trials more while we are both still enjoying it. From Jan and Beckham (the dog) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeagleBoys2 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 My very first obedience trialling dog was Bailey, an amazing Beagle. I made a lot of mistakes with him and he forgave me for every single one of them. He entered his first obedience trial at 3 years of age under the old rules. Trust me doing heeling on lead, followed by heeling off lead was incredibly boring for a Beagle. But bless him he got his Sweepstakes after a number of attempts and got his CD Title quickly. Open he found incredibly fun and enjoyed the dumbell and jumping. Of course at this stage he also had titles in Agility and Jumpers. Unfortunately before getting all his legs in Open he was diagnosed with cancer and we lost him way too early. In our hearts he will always be our Open Dog. So I am now training Beagle number 3...he doesn't realise it but he has huge paws to fill...great things are expected of him. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) With Millie, if I show her the good stuff (ie. dinner) she won't do a damn thing for me. You must be lumping not rewarding for each required behaviour. I'm not quite sure what you mean again :D If you put her food dish down, with a little dinner, do you ask her to heel, then release?etc etc etc etc. No to the above. The second she sees the dinner bowl, it's almost too much for her to process anything else but that food bowl. She's a fantastic little worker on minimal treats, as long as I don't work her with dinner bowl in sight as her reward for a job well done. The only thing I make her do now with a dinner bowl as reward are sit stays Doesn't sound ideal, but it's ok with me because she works better with minimal stimulus, so I get more out of her training than my other Lab who will only work for food or squeaky toy! It can be a real joy to train a dog who enjoys interacting with you and is motivated just because they want to be there with you, and gets me down when food is the only motivator for the other one! Edit to add: we have tried doing small portions of heelwork or a recall for her dinner, but anything we do ends up a disaster so is not contributing in a positive manner to her training. So I've decided not to train her when she simply won't give her best. We get much better results doing small bits of heelwork and other exercises outside of meal times with a handul of treats, or sometimes without any (at home for the time being where there are no distractions) and then she gets a jackpot :D With Ruby on the other hand, she works her sweet little booty off at the sight of a food bowl so I use that to my advantage with small exercises before dinner as reward. Edited August 4, 2009 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundoglover Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I went as far as I could with my first obedience dog, which was UD (the champion title didn't come in until later). However, it took 7 years. It took one year exactly of trialing to get his first novice pass - he kept running out of the ring to say hello to other dogs or people, then return ok, but scored zero; and my voice got squeaky from nerves, so he failed to understand me when I called him to come on the recall. But after we overcame those minor obstacles, he scored in the 190's. CDX wasn't too difficult, apart from at a breed speciality where he tried to trade his dumbbell for the sexual favours of a bitch in season over at the breed ring. He was turned down by the owner of the bitch & returned to the ring to complete the retrieve over obstacle, but another zero for leaving the ring. UD took a while, including a nasty habit of marking the scent discrimination mat! I learned an enormous amount from that dog, mostly humility! But also, the importance of allowing a dog's brain to mature and not to enter the trial ring too soon. My dog had quickly become ring-wise, knowing that what would not be tolerated out of the ring (he was put smartly back on lead) could not be corrected when in that magic roped-off space & even knew when it was real or mock (probably picking up on my nerves/body-language). Although my later dogs were better behaved (because I was a more experienced trainer), that first dog has a special place in my heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 gundoglover, that story made me laugh I know humility over here! Out of interest, what breed was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundoglover Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 An entire golden retriever that had been used at stud! Talk about starting tough. But when he did work he usually placed well - 190+ or NQ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeagleBoys2 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 An entire golden retriever that had been used at stud! Talk about starting tough. But when he did work he usually placed well - 190+ or NQ! It's good to know it's not just the Beagles. It boggles my mind that one day they can be 190+ and the next NQ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dova Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Here's a question for you all, more in fun than serious though I think, I've just started obedience & herding trials with Izzi & Pebbles & really enjoying it. This morning I did some heel work with them, then decided to give the old girl a go, she's 12 & hasn't done any for about 10yrs, well her eyes lit up, tail wagged & she worked pretty well . Now for the question, does it sound like a dumb idea putting her in an obedience trial, CCD, she's only ever been a working dog now I've got no work for her, can't use her in herding trials the yards aren't big enough. JC's a very healthy active 12yo , she comes everywhere with me & just sits around at the trials so I thought doing some thing with her might keep her mentally active as well, I wouldn't be expecting perfection just fun, ok oppinions every one . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) I say go for it Dova - nothing to lose and its not like she isn't physically and mentally up to it. If she enjoys it I say why not. Realistically CCD is not really that much to ask of a dog. Plenty of trials coming up in September/October . Edited August 6, 2009 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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