Large Amounts Of Milk In A Puppy Diet

[J...]

Hi all,

I visited a farm today that had a litter of 9 week old working bred pups. Being a dairy farm they are feeding quite a lot of fresh milk (straight from the vat) to the pups.

I noticed that one pup was slightly bowed and almost starting to knuckle slightly - she was the most obvious (also the runt) but then comparing her to the rest there looked to be a few that were a bit big in the knuckle joint.

They are being fed dry puppy food and the milk only.

Is it likely to be the milk that's causing the issue? Just curious as I'd read somewhere that calcium from a natural source is not supposed to cause issues.

Thanks!

Jess

[Staranais]

As far as I'm aware, calcium from a natural source can still cause issues. Calcium is calcium. Puppies have limited mechanisms to regulate calcium absorption and excretion compared to adult dogs. I've never read anything reputable to indicate otherwise.

However, milk doesn't actually have very concentrated calcium in it (about 1/10 of what bone has by weight), so they'd have to be drinking a lot of liquid milk for it to become an issue IMO. I'd be more concerned about them getting the runs from all that milk.

[ellz]

They shouldn't get the runs from the milk if they've had it from an early age. The problem with cows milk and many/most dogs is that they AREN'T given it as puppies so they lose the enzymes that enable them to process the lactose. Dogs which are fed cows milk as babies are rarely lactose intolerant.

I routinely feed all puppies born here on cows milk and none (to the best of my knowledge) have had issues with lactose as adults. Certainly those that I've kept have no problems and they quite often get leftover milk, porridge and other foods that have lots of milk in them (one of the advantages/disadvantages of having children - lots of leftover food!).

I would say that they are being fed the wrong kind of puppy dry food and definitely too much of it. But that said, it could also just be bad genetics and "one of those things", especially if just one of the puppies is badly affected. Being big in knuckle joints doesn't necessarily mean much, they might just be well-boned substantial puppies.

[Scales of Justice]

I have seen knuckling over when the diet is not balanced. Cut out the milk and feed only a balanced dry preparation especially for puppies. It should fix itself once the balance is returned.

[puggy_puggy]

Knuckling is caused by an imbalanced diet and can also be caused by overfeeding. Cut the food back and fix the diet and the problem should resolve very quickly.

Unless it is another problem that is called early growth plate closure.

[dianed]

Years ago (28 to be exact) my first GSD had a litter of pups, having a dairy farm at the time they where feed lots of milk, colostrum and all. When mum was a pup she was feed the same.

It didn,t do either mum or pups any harm, in fact when I look back mum & the 2 daughters I kept where the longest living, healthiest GSD.s I had. And no cancer problems like I have had in the ones since.

[poodlefan]

You need a balance of calcium and phosphorus to promote healthy bones and joints.

My guess is there there is an imbalance here.. perhaps too little phosphorus.

[Staranais]

You need a balance of calcium and phosphorus to promote healthy bones and joints.

My guess is there there is an imbalance here.. perhaps too little phosphorus.

That's very true, but an imbalanced Ca:P ratio shouldn't be caused by the milk Poodlefan. Cow's milk has an ideal great Ca:P ratio for puppies, around 1.3:1.

[poodlefan]

You need a balance of calcium and phosphorus to promote healthy bones and joints.

My guess is there there is an imbalance here.. perhaps too little phosphorus.

That's very true, but an imbalanced Ca:P ratio shouldn't be caused by the milk Poodlefan. Cow's milk has an ideal great Ca:P ratio for puppies, around 1.3:1.

Ah, OK. I thought it might be light on for P.

[stormie]

I wonder if the cows milk is too high in fat/calories which is whats affecting the growth.

[puggy_puggy]

I wonder if the cows milk is too high in fat/calories which is whats affecting the growth.

That would be my bet. That they are getting to much to eat/drink so growing to quickly.

[gundoglover]

There are a number of possibilities, including genetic susceptibility. However, too much Calcium (even when balanced with Phosphorus, Magnesium, and Vitamin D) can cause bone joint problems. Ideally, puppies need about 12g Calcium & 10g Phosphorus per kg dry matter food. What is too much depends somewhat on the breed. Giant, fast growing breeds can have problems if Calcium constitutes more than 2% of the dry matter weight of their diet, while small breeds can tolerate 3% without problems.

So, a lot of milk with puppy kibble may be too much Calcium total for these puppies. Cow's milk also varies in the amount of Calcium depending on the stage of lactation and the food and supplements consumed by the cow. If they were my puppies and I wanted to make use of a free supply of milk, I'd combine it with mince meat (high in Phosphorus), and a little cod liver oil (for Vitamin D) and a little kelp (for trace minerals). If I had to feed kibble with the milk, I would not use a puppy formula (too high in Calcium when added to the milk).