First Time Puppy Owner Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) Oops :D Yes I did - Virginia!!! ;) Ok want to run a few more things past you guys please Took the boys for a weigh in yesterday arvo and Benson is 37.7kgs and Lughie is 35.2kgs. So according to feeding at 2% of body weight I would have to feed about 700 grams each, daily - correct? (of course will adjust if lossing too much weight to 2.5% or 3%) So my thoughts about a diet so far are detailed below. Please let me know if I am not meeing all their dietary needs using this formula and where I should adjust! Day 1 - split meal (halved and mixed together) 400 grams of Chicken Pet Mince (which is chcicken frames some skin and necks minced - checked this out yesterday) 150 grams of lamb heart minced 50 grams of lamb liver minced 100 grams of processed vegies with a tablespoon of yoghurt. Day 2 - breakfast Large lamb or beef brisket bones Dinner 1 tin of saradines 100 grams of salmon from tin 100 grams of processed veggies and a table spoon of yoghurt Day 3 - breakfast Half a chicken frame Dinner Turkey wing Day 4 - (halved and mixed together) 400 grams of chicken pet mince 150 grams of roo mince 50 of lamb kidney 100 grams of processed veggies and a tablespoon of yoghurt Day 5 - one brisket bone and natural treats Day 6 - breakfast 2 Salmon heads Dinner 200 grams of chicken pet mince 200 grams of roo mince Combined with one entire egg - shell and all and a tablespoon of yohurt Day 7 - breakfast a large brisket bone Dinner 200 grams of chicken pet mince 200 grams of lamb tongue minced 100 grams of processed veggies and a tablespoon of yoghurt Also note that I am adding to Benson's diet (he has atopy) 8 fish oil tablets & 4 Evevning primrose tablets that have been punctured every morning and 2 FO and 1 EPO tabs a day to Lughie's and and Vit E tablet once a week. I am going to sprinkle a little kelp onto every bowl type meal as well. Edit - please note that the only two types of minced things I am buying are roo and the minced chicken frames the rest I will be doing in my food processor. Edited August 9, 2009 by First Time Puppy Owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 (edited) Ok well I went on an expedition yesterday to Jack Purcell's (Virgina - Brisbane) to see what they had on offer. I found they had minced chicken frames for $1.30 a kg, beef, lamb and ox hearts, lambs fry (which I gather are livers), chicken giblets (? ) chicken livers, pork tounges, cheap chicken wings and drumsticks in bulk, turkey wings, lamb shanks, and 5 kg vacuum sealed bags of roo.This is going to be my shop for the boys I think!!! I go to Purcells to get doggy stuff too They had heaps more stuff when you went than when I went a week or so ago Where did you find the turkey wings? Where they at the butchers counter or on a shelf? And chicken wings/drumsticks in bulk? They did have raw pig trotters when I went though and the dogs loved them Edited August 9, 2009 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 I go to Purcells to get doggy stuff too They had heaps more stuff when you went than when I went a week or so ago Where did you find the turkey wings? Where they at the butchers counter or on a shelf? And chicken wings/drumsticks in bulk? They did have raw pig trotters when I went though and the dogs loved them Hey Huski - I think you have to go early and on a saturday to get the good stuff! But yep the Turkey wings were in the butchers counter and there was a 5 kg bag of both the wings and drumsticks in the same window and at slighty cheaper prices - drumstick by the kg were $2.99 but 5 kilo bag was $2.50 a kg. I worry about pork products such as trotter as I have heard they are cleaned with quite harsh chemicals - as are pigs ears prior to being dried?!?!? Or is this an old wives tail/tale??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Hey Huski - I think you have to go early and on a saturday to get the good stuff! But yep the Turkey wings were in the butchers counter and there was a 5 kg bag of both the wings and drumsticks in the same window and at slighty cheaper prices - drumstick by the kg were $2.99 but 5 kilo bag was $2.50 a kg. I worry about pork products such as trotter as I have heard they are cleaned with quite harsh chemicals - as are pigs ears prior to being dried?!?!? Or is this an old wives tail/tale??? Thanks FTPO, I will definitely be going earlier in the future Not sure about the pork, I've read various opinions about feeding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Ok well I went on an expedition yesterday to Jack Purcell's (Virgina - Brisbane) to see what they had on offer. I found they had minced chicken frames for $1.30 a kg, beef, lamb and ox hearts, lambs fry (which I gather are livers), chicken giblets (? ) chicken livers, pork tounges, cheap chicken wings and drumsticks in bulk, turkey wings, lamb shanks, and 5 kg vacuum sealed bags of roo.This is going to be my shop for the boys I think!!! FTPO that sounds like a FANTASTIC selection!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am jealous I was shocked at the range Laffi as previously when I have gone they only had chicken frames, marrow bones and beef offcuts in bags and the occassional pigs head - but demand must be increasing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowgirl Posted August 9, 2009 Author Share Posted August 9, 2009 FTPO, I had my pen, paper and calculator, and was adding everything up and calculating percentages. Then I thought, stuff it, it looks like you've got a large amount of meat, a few bones, a bit of offal and some fish, eggs and a few other nutritional yummies. . It looks good to me! ;) I've decided to call myself an 'Educated Fun Feeder' now, instead of a 'Regimented, Calculate it to within an inch of its life, It shouldn't have to be this complicated' type of Feeder'!! :D . I'm still going to make my own researched diet plan for my dogs because it works for them and I actually like to calculate, weigh, cut, mince and mix everything up (and pretend I'm a famous dog chef on tv ;) ), but I'm also loving this thread and the fact that we can share ideas and help each other find healthy (or scrap unhealthy) products, ingredients and food combos that work best for our own individual dogs . Oh, and speaking of finding healthy products, I'm making some inquiries on the green tripe front and working on getting some products into the country . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Spots Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 FTPO - i have read many threads about Benson's atopy, how is it going and how are you managing it currently Lucy is also atopic and we are seriously struggling I am contemplating going raw after reading your post - sounds awesome Though back up biccies may be needed when life as a doc gets mad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oonga Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 OK so supplements What supplements if any do people add to raw diets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 For us, just fish body oil for omegas & kelp for iodine. If I had an elderly or arthritic dog, I'd add glucosamine/chondroitin as well. If you're feeding a well balanced raw diet, then I don't think the other popular supplements (brewers yeast etc) are necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 FTPO, I had my pen, paper and calculator, and was adding everything up and calculating percentages. Then I thought, stuff it, it looks like you've got a large amount of meat, a few bones, a bit of offal and some fish, eggs and a few other nutritional yummies. . It looks good to me! I've decided to call myself an 'Educated Fun Feeder' now, instead of a 'Regimented, Calculate it to within an inch of its life, It shouldn't have to be this complicated' type of Feeder'!! . I'm still going to make my own researched diet plan for my dogs because it works for them and I actually like to calculate, weigh, cut, mince and mix everything up (and pretend I'm a famous dog chef on tv ), but I'm also loving this thread and the fact that we can share ideas and help each other find healthy (or scrap unhealthy) products, ingredients and food combos that work best for our own individual dogs :) . Oh, and speaking of finding healthy products, I'm making some inquiries on the green tripe front and working on getting some products into the country . Oh bum YG :D I was so hoping you would calculate stuff up and double check it cause I am really only guestamting I think I have enough of everything over the week to cover all the nutritional requirements but still I am no expert like you guys - need to read alot more yet! FTPO - i have read many threads about Benson's atopy, how is it going and how are you managing it currentlyLucy is also atopic and we are seriously struggling I am contemplating going raw after reading your post - sounds awesome Though back up biccies may be needed when life as a doc gets mad Oh Neat I am so sorry to hear that. What breed is Lucy? I swear it's one of the worst things a dog can get as you are so incredibly helpless. We are doing okish at the moment trialing immunotherapy and it seems to be keeping at a reasomable level of itchiness. Plus I think the addition of Lughie to our fur family has aided in that Benson is further distracted from chewing constantly. Yet I don't think we will be one of the lucky ones and have Benson sured - yet at least it can be controlled to an extent. I'm crossing fingers that raw feeding will further assist as even though he didn't register high in regard to certain things on his panel of results he could still be mildly allergic to ingredients in the dry food he is currently on and this may further assist in elminating any allergen as I know exactly what he is eating and there are not more than 20 ingredients in total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oonga Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 For us, just fish body oil for omegas & kelp for iodine. If I had an elderly or arthritic dog, I'd add glucosamine/chondroitin as well.If you're feeding a well balanced raw diet, then I don't think the other popular supplements (brewers yeast etc) are necessary. do you think you could do harm by adding too many? I give 1 teaspoon of this one about 3 times a week mixed in with her meat http://greenpet.com.au/pet-shop/cart.php?t...;category_id=74 about 3 times a week she gets about 1/4 of a cup of this Muesli mixed with her meat and on those days i don't add the other supplement http://www.innawinner.com/e-commerce-solut...-catalog14.html I also give most days Protexin and a squirt of omega oil mix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Hi FTPO, I analyzed (roughly) your feeding plan. Let me know if I missed something on my list: RMBs 400 grams of Chicken Pet Mince ? Large lamb or beef brisket bones ~300g Half a chicken frame ~300gTurkey wing 400 grams of chicken pet mince ? one brisket bone 200 grams of chicken pet mince ? a large brisket bone 200 grams of chicken pet mince = 1.8kg bones + 3x brisket bones MEAT 150 grams of lamb heart minced 1 tin of saradines (~150g) 100 grams of salmon from tin 150 grams of roo mince 2 Salmon heads (? 1-1.5kg) 200 grams of roo mince 200 grams of lamb tongue minced = 0.9 kg + ?1-1.5kg? =1.9kg ORGANS 50 grams of lamb liver minced 50 of lamb kidney =0.1kg I am ignoring the brisket bones in this analysis (as I don't know how big they are). I am not sure you want to feed 2 salmon heads/day as they are usually huge ~0.5-0.7kg (I put 1kg for the analysis). Total weight is 3.8kg % offal is ~ 0.4% (I would double that) % of bones is ~ 20% (would be much much more if I included the brisket bones) I think you need to feed more meat or RMBs with less bone content (like chicken maryland, or chicken/turkey wings) In this analysis I estimated that the bone content of your RMBs was 40% as it was based on minced frames/necks mostly. It's a rough estimation but it's still showing too much bone without even adding the brisket bones. Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oonga Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Laffi, I think in your calculations above the sardines would fall in the RMB category cause they have the bone in them?? Not sure about that though? Wonder if Salmon that you get in the tin is classed as a RMB or muscle meat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowgirl Posted August 10, 2009 Author Share Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) Oh bum YG I was so hoping you would calculate stuff up and double check it cause I am really only guestamting I think I have enough of everything over the week to cover all the nutritional requirements but still I am no expert like you guys - need to read alot more yet! Ok, I couldn't help myself . As a general calculation you've got about 1.7kg of meat (plus your bones), 250g of organ and 50g of liver. Liver should be about 1/2 of the whole organ intake. Including the bones and other supplimental ingredients (veg, fish, etc) I'm assuming that the organ percentage does come to around 10%. So it might be an idea to increase the liver and decrease the other organs so they are both at around 150g each. xxx ETA.... Oh snap Laffi . Glad you replied because I just realised that I counted the lamb heart as an organ. So you're correct, the organ content is only a total of 100g, that needs to be in the range of around 400g (half of which should be liver), based on your total amount of meat, bones, etc being around 4kg. Edited August 10, 2009 by yellowgirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceanaussi Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Alright, haven't read the entire thread but I printed it all out and will read it later on. I currently feed a mixture of dry and raw because I'm worried that I don't get the right ratios of everything when I just feed raw. Plus kibble is more confinient when we travel. However, I'm thinking of converting over to raw but I personally find it challenging doing the shopping, getting it mixed up, having enough space in the fridge/freezer ect. I have a Weimaraner and they tend to bloat I thought raw might be a safer alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Laffi,I think in your calculations above the sardines would fall in the RMB category cause they have the bone in them?? Not sure about that though? Wonder if Salmon that you get in the tin is classed as a RMB or muscle meat? It's true that there are bones in sardines (and sometimes in canned salmon) but for the amount she is feeding compared to everything else it's a very small amount (like less than 1%).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oonga Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Laffi,I think in your calculations above the sardines would fall in the RMB category cause they have the bone in them?? Not sure about that though? Wonder if Salmon that you get in the tin is classed as a RMB or muscle meat? It's true that there are bones in sardines (and sometimes in canned salmon) but for the amount she is feeding compared to everything else it's a very small amount (like less than 1%).... Thanks for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 For us, just fish body oil for omegas & kelp for iodine. If I had an elderly or arthritic dog, I'd add glucosamine/chondroitin as well.If you're feeding a well balanced raw diet, then I don't think the other popular supplements (brewers yeast etc) are necessary. do you think you could do harm by adding too many? Yes, definitely. Too much iodine (from kelp) is not good for dogs, if you go overboard it can induce hypothyroidism. And if you feed a ridiculously large amount of fish oil, you can get clotting dysfunctions. Brewers yeast is used mostly for B vitamins which are water soluble (so the dog just pees them out if you add too many), so I doubt that would cause any problem unless you went absolutely crazy with it. Everything in moderation. I haven't analysed your diet but it looks OK to me from a casual glance (to feed an adult dog, not a pup). Salmon in a tin is about half way between a muscle meat and a RMB, as far as Ca amount and Ca:P ratio are concerned, so I'd just treat it as half way in between. Actually there is one more supplement I would add if I could afford it - I'd feed a few oysters per week. They're amazing for zinc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Spots Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 thanks FTPO lucy is a whippie - having stopped the VAN has made a fair difference, she seems to respond to the polaramine - though i am not sure how much of a response i am ment to get for it to be positive but she does scratch less. OH didn't give her her dose last night and she was very uncomfortable this morning when i got home from my 13 hr night shift. i have been giving omega-derm but when this bottle is done am contemplating the salmon oil, epo, vit e combination i found that you were involved in from another thread - does this help you what is your opinon of the allergy testing - any benefit my keyboard 'shift' key has stopped working hence the lack of capitals cause i can't be bothered using the caps lock all the time OOOOHHHH - i noticed you live in Brisvegas - I am up on the Sunshine coast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Spots Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 one other question; i think i will probably need to keep some kibble b/c of work commitments can't decide - artemis grain free v's proplan salmon and rice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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