Raw/natural Chitchat

[Moi]

I know lots of performance dogs that have been fed raw for their entire lives and subsequent generations with no problems. I have fed mine raw since they were around 2 and 6 respectively....no problems except my BC had 2 teeth cleanings prior to BARF and he is now 12 with lovely white teeth!!!!

Thanks for that

Edited October 7, 2010 by Seraphina

[AlanMatic]

Hi all.

I'm just looking for opinions on this diet, or advice from those who have fed similar perhaps. We're fairly new to this and want to do right by our 4 month old Lab.

First off, amount. By my research/calculations, to err on the side of caution we're going with 3% of his approx grown weight of 40kg = 1.2 kg approx per day, over two meals.

A typical day has:

Maybe 400g kangaroo chunk (raw, fed in one whole chunk of meat)

drizzle olive oil for fat

chopped raw or leftover steamed veg - say, 20% of meal

chunk of offal (grass fed lamb liver or kidneys - maybe 10% of meal)

fed twice per day (breakie, dinner).

At lunch time he will also have a chunk of raw meaty roo tail (bone) or a chicken drumstick (bone with meat fragments - not the whole thing!).

Roo meat seems to be the best option for us to feed. Though even at $4.50 per/kilo, with him eating almost that every day it is very expensive.

Any thoughts on roo as a main feed component?

[sezling]

I have been adding more mince because his stools were too white. I've also stopped bones for a few days due to the constant vomiting of yellow-green liquid and bone shards - the latter of which was also in his poo. He'd vomit several hours after he's eaten. I'm continuing with the patties and will start to reintroduce the lamb necks. I'm ruling out roo tails because the bone is too hard for him (that's where the bone shards came from). The thing is even before I stopped the bones he started itching again and got a major hot spot on his leg. this time it doesn't seem like a detox but it could be. Recently he was on herbs which cleared up his skin and the detox from that was dry, slightly itchy scabs. These scabs which have popped up over his chest, armpit and legs are yellow and some pus-filled.. very similar to the past when he's had bacterial skin infections....

I'm starting to wonder if I should continue on raw. He doesn't like kibble but then getting a raw diet wrong could be worse then adding things to a reasonably good kibble. I don't know anymore.

[Red Fox]

Hi all.

I'm just looking for opinions on this diet, or advice from those who have fed similar perhaps. We're fairly new to this and want to do right by our 4 month old Lab.

First off, amount. By my research/calculations, to err on the side of caution we're going with 3% of his approx grown weight of 40kg = 1.2 kg approx per day, over two meals.

A typical day has:

Maybe 400g kangaroo chunk (raw, fed in one whole chunk of meat)

drizzle olive oil for fat

chopped raw or leftover steamed veg - say, 20% of meal

chunk of offal (grass fed lamb liver or kidneys - maybe 10% of meal)

fed twice per day (breakie, dinner).

At lunch time he will also have a chunk of raw meaty roo tail (bone) or a chicken drumstick (bone with meat fragments - not the whole thing!).

Roo meat seems to be the best option for us to feed. Though even at $4.50 per/kilo, with him eating almost that every day it is very expensive.

Any thoughts on roo as a main feed component?

Roo is a great meat, high in protein and very lean.

As far as what you're feeding;

Veggies should be raw and pureed (you can do this in a food processor or juicer)

If you want to add oil, olive wont do any harm but Omega Oil or Flaxseed are better options. Canned sardines or mackeral are good too.

Lamb is a good meat if you want something a little fattier now and then

You can feed chicken drumsticks whole. Necks, frames and wings are good too

Feeding meat only (no bone) can throw out the balance - epecially for a growing large breed puppy. A chunk of meat now and then wont hurt but feeding it on the bone is a much better option. They need the bones for calcium.

Don't worry about weights/amounts etc. Pick a starting point (as you have with your 1200g per day) and if you find your dog is getting tubby feed less or if he looks too ribby feed more food or fattier meats

My dog is just under 40kgs, eats around 800g-1200g per day and the main component of his diet is roo

[jagersmum]

Hi all.

I'm just looking for opinions on this diet, or advice from those who have fed similar perhaps. We're fairly new to this and want to do right by our 4 month old Lab.

First off, amount. By my research/calculations, to err on the side of caution we're going with 3% of his approx grown weight of 40kg = 1.2 kg approx per day, over two meals.

A typical day has:

Maybe 400g kangaroo chunk (raw, fed in one whole chunk of meat)

drizzle olive oil for fat

chopped raw or leftover steamed veg - say, 20% of meal

chunk of offal (grass fed lamb liver or kidneys - maybe 10% of meal)

fed twice per day (breakie, dinner).

At lunch time he will also have a chunk of raw meaty roo tail (bone) or a chicken drumstick (bone with meat fragments - not the whole thing!).

Roo meat seems to be the best option for us to feed. Though even at $4.50 per/kilo, with him eating almost that every day it is very expensive.

Any thoughts on roo as a main feed component?

4 month old pup I would like to see a larger vegetable component.

Id also like to see more bone and fat - kangaroo is very lean.

Have you thought about egg or using flaxseed oil instead of olive oil and using a fattier cut?

My two love kangaroo but when feeding i try to up fat in other ways to compensate.

How much does the pup weigh?

[jagersmum]

Roo is a great meat, high in protein and very lean.

As far as what you're feeding;

Veggies should be raw and pureed (you can do this in a food processor or juicer)

If you want to add oil, olive wont do any harm but Omega Oil or Flaxseed are better options. Canned sardines or mackeral are good too.

Lamb is a good meat if you want something a little fattier now and then

You can feed chicken drumsticks whole. Necks, frames and wings are good too

Feeding meat only (no bone) can throw out the balance - epecially for a growing large breed puppy. A chunk of meat now and then wont hurt but feeding it on the bone is a much better option. They need the bones for calcium.

Don't worry about weights/amounts etc. Pick a starting point (as you have with your 1200g per day) and if you find your dog is getting tubby feed less or if he looks too ribby feed more food or fattier meats

My dog is just under 40kgs, eats around 800g-1200g per day and the main component of his diet is roo

[Moi]

I have been adding more mince because his stools were too white. I've also stopped bones for a few days due to the constant vomiting of yellow-green liquid and bone shards - the latter of which was also in his poo. He'd vomit several hours after he's eaten. I'm continuing with the patties and will start to reintroduce the lamb necks. I'm ruling out roo tails because the bone is too hard for him (that's where the bone shards came from). The thing is even before I stopped the bones he started itching again and got a major hot spot on his leg. this time it doesn't seem like a detox but it could be. Recently he was on herbs which cleared up his skin and the detox from that was dry, slightly itchy scabs. These scabs which have popped up over his chest, armpit and legs are yellow and some pus-filled.. very similar to the past when he's had bacterial skin infections....

I'm starting to wonder if I should continue on raw. He doesn't like kibble but then getting a raw diet wrong could be worse then adding things to a reasonably good kibble. I don't know anymore.

If your dog can't handle tougher bones, then switch to just feeding chicken necks as the bone source. Chicken necks have soft non sharding bones that are perfect for pups, oldies and other dogs that can't eat a normal bone. Be careful how much mince you feed to, meaty bones should make up the bulk of the diet, because they provide esssential calcium and protein the dog needs everyday.

[Aso]

We feed our DDB puppy a raw diet based on Tom Lonesdale's mainly prey diet model. At last weigh in he's about 16kg but we only feed him just a bit over 1kg of rmb plus treats a day. If he's getting a bit too thin we feed more, if getting a bit chubba, we feed less.

We try to vary his food as much as we can but it all depends on what is on special. His main diet is chicken since we can constantly get that cheaply then the rest depends on the market :-)

He usually gets, in a week,

chicken quarters

eggs

chicken hearts / giblets / liver

lamb necks

lamb shanks

salmon heads or canned sardines

His favourite is the lamb neck ... he will not leave it alone until it's white with no meat left and I have to take it away!

[Liath]

Anyone with a cav on raw diet? I have been feeding raw her for just over 2 months now and feel i don't have the mix right.

This is what I mix up and give her 1/2 cup a day, chicken neck, 2 biscuits (2x2's). I had to fiddle with the amounts until I found a portion that didnt put weight on her, because of her knees she is not an active dog. She loves the below and woofs it down every night. Is there to much pasta/rice/oats? Should there be more vegies? I used to add natural yoghurt and kelp powder when I gave her dinner but she didnt like it.

2kg chicken/beef mince

1 cup cooked brown rice

1 cup cooked pasta

200g grated vegies (carrots/zuccini)

2 eggs

2 cup oats

1/2 cup bran

1/2 cup wheat germ

4 caps flaxseed oil

1 tsp garlic

150g honey

Edited November 8, 2010 by Liath

[shelby-001]

We feed our DDB puppy a raw diet based on Tom Lonesdale's mainly prey diet model. At last weigh in he's about 16kg but we only feed him just a bit over 1kg of rmb plus treats a day. If he's getting a bit too thin we feed more, if getting a bit chubba, we feed less.

We try to vary his food as much as we can but it all depends on what is on special. His main diet is chicken since we can constantly get that cheaply then the rest depends on the market :-)

He usually gets, in a week,

chicken quarters

eggs

chicken hearts / giblets / liver

lamb necks

lamb shanks

salmon heads or canned sardines

His favourite is the lamb neck ... he will not leave it alone until it's white with no meat left and I have to take it away!

We are feeding 'prey model' with our two Amstaff's as well, it goes something like this:

Over a week they get:

One serve of 2 of these per day

Chicken carcass (they are 250g each)

Chicken necks (they are portioned out into 250g serves)

Roo Tail (they are between 300-500g each)

Lamb Flap (they get half a flap each, I cut it in half myself, which is about 350g each)

Roo mince (they get a quarter of the block each per serve, the block is 1kg so 250g)

Chicken Mince (as per roo mince - I only five them 1 bag of this per fortnight)

I can't decide if pork is good or not... so thoughts please? Research says it's ok but not common.

Mixed chicken pieces with meat on (only once a week to fortnight for a treat, legs/thighs/wings etc)

Twice a week

Half a tin of Sardines in Spring water each (so for the week they get 1 x 100g tin each)

Offal (chicken kidney/lamb liver/lamb kidney/chicken liver/heart - 100g each time)

Whole egg (mixed through food shell and all)

Natural yoghurt (a good tablespoon)

They only get Eagle Pack Holistic Select Anchovy as a dry food and they would get about a cup a week each, a bad week maybe 2. I use it sometimes for training and other times they just get a little by itself. Occassionally I'll mix a bit with their sardines if they have been a bit short on their other foods for the day.

Treats are rawhide knot bones, pig snouts and dehydrated lamb straps but I have just ordered some dehydrated green lip mussels and dehydrated whole fish. For training treats other than the EP Holistic Select I use dehydrated chicken necks (THEY LOVE THESE). The only time they get treats is when training, with the exception of the rawhide bones, they keep them wonderfully occupied if home alone!

Daily they get the appropriate amount of Vets All Natural Skin Supplement ( Skin & Coat Formula ) This is a new edition just to prop their systems as they wreen't in the greatest of shape when we got them.

Each day I take out of the freezer the combination of 'foods' from above that give us a total of approx 3% of Boof's weight. Everything I have read about 'feeding raw' says you should give adults 2-4% of their body weight, and pups about 3% of their expected adult weight. Boof was a lil porky when we got him so he wasn't getting as much but he's quite nice now and maintaining a lovely 'shape' with ribs I can now feel, maybe not as much as some would like but I can feel them without 'seeing' all of them only the last one or two and he has a lovely waisteline so I'M HAPPY.

I am now 'monitoring' their intake and will work on the pinch, feel and look tests to maintain a nice healthy weight. So far so good with the combination I am giving them.

Boof has sensitive skin and gets dandruff very easily, he's a slightly fussier eater although will still eat almost anything, sometimes I just have to stick some in his gob and then he's right, Lilly on the other hand is appearing to be our 'easy' dog. We'll see how that pans out.

[Aso]

I can't decide if pork is good or not... so thoughts please? Research says it's ok but not common.

Each day I take out of the freezer the combination of 'foods' from above that give us a total of approx 3% of Boof's weight. Everything I have read about 'feeding raw' says you should give adults 2-4% of their body weight, and pups about 3% of their expected adult weight. Boof was a lil porky when we got him so he wasn't getting as much but he's quite nice now and maintaining a lovely 'shape' with ribs I can now feel, maybe not as much as some would like but I can feel them without 'seeing' all of them only the last one or two and he has a lovely waisteline so I'M HAPPY.

I am now 'monitoring' their intake and will work on the pinch, feel and look tests to maintain a nice healthy weight. So far so good with the combination I am giving them.

Hi Shelby,

Try pork hocks, we give Tonka a hock every Saturday and that's the majority of his meals for the day. The ones we get here are about 1.25kg each from the butcher but remember that the bone in that is pretty hefty, thus the weight. They're quite cheap here, about $2.50kg or cheaper when we buy a dozen a time. I used to "ribbon" through the hide & meat, just cut horizontally & vertically through it so it's easier for Tonka to get his teeth through. I only did that a couple of times and now he just goes for it and absolutely loves it.

Pork is great and we always buy human grade, not only is it easier to source it's actually CHEAPER than pet stuff!

Unbelievable

[shelby-001]

I can't decide if pork is good or not... so thoughts please? Research says it's ok but not common.

Each day I take out of the freezer the combination of 'foods' from above that give us a total of approx 3% of Boof's weight. Everything I have read about 'feeding raw' says you should give adults 2-4% of their body weight, and pups about 3% of their expected adult weight. Boof was a lil porky when we got him so he wasn't getting as much but he's quite nice now and maintaining a lovely 'shape' with ribs I can now feel, maybe not as much as some would like but I can feel them without 'seeing' all of them only the last one or two and he has a lovely waisteline so I'M HAPPY.

I am now 'monitoring' their intake and will work on the pinch, feel and look tests to maintain a nice healthy weight. So far so good with the combination I am giving them.

Hi Shelby,

Try pork hocks, we give Tonka a hock every Saturday and that's the majority of his meals for the day. The ones we get here are about 1.25kg each from the butcher but remember that the bone in that is pretty hefty, thus the weight. They're quite cheap here, about $2.50kg or cheaper when we buy a dozen a time. I used to "ribbon" through the hide & meat, just cut horizontally & vertically through it so it's easier for Tonka to get his teeth through. I only did that a couple of times and now he just goes for it and absolutely loves it.

Pork is great and we always buy human grade, not only is it easier to source it's actually CHEAPER than pet stuff!

Unbelievable :rolleyes:

THANKS!!!

I went to the butcher this morning and got one hock and had him slice it in half down the bone, it was nearly 1.5kg so I thought half each for breakky and a bit of mince that night would be perfect. Providing they like it. I will let it freeze for a couple of days and then pull it out, I'll get back to you with how we went.

[Red Fox]

Anyone with a cav on raw diet? I have been feeding raw her for just over 2 months now and feel i don't have the mix right.

This is what I mix up and give her 1/2 cup a day, chicken neck, 2 biscuits (2x2's). I had to fiddle with the amounts until I found a portion that didnt put weight on her, because of her knees she is not an active dog. She loves the below and woofs it down every night. Is there to much pasta/rice/oats? Should there be more vegies? I used to add natural yoghurt and kelp powder when I gave her dinner but she didnt like it.

2kg chicken/beef mince

1 cup cooked brown rice

1 cup cooked pasta

200g grated vegies (carrots/zuccini)

2 eggs

2 cup oats

1/2 cup bran

1/2 cup wheat germ

4 caps flaxseed oil

1 tsp garlic

150g honey

That sounds like a LOT of grain to me. A little rice, pasta or oats wont hurt but they don't necessarily need it. Your 2x2 biscuits contain wheat too.

If it were me I'd cut out the rice/pasta/oats/bran altogether (or at least cut it down). Wheatgerm contains vitamin E which is good, but it can go rancid so keep it cool. Omega Pet oil would be a better option. Add some variety to your veg (green leafy veg is good - spinach, pumpkin, cellery, green alfalfa, and/or fruit - apples, pears, oranges, bananas are all fine) and puree it in a blender until its mush.

Also, and most importantly, you need to add some bone to your dogs diet. Either whole raw meaty bones or pet mince containing bone. Add the (crushed) shell of the eggs into your mix too.

You should probably add some offal in too - liver in particular.

Other things you could add (if you wanted to) are canned sardines or mackeral, cottage cheese, natural yogurt, parsley and ACV.

Hope that helps :rolleyes:

eta, just saw that you give her chicken necks as well. I'd substitute her 2x2's for another neck, or swap her meal for a wing, drumstick, thigh, lamb flap or shank now and then.

Edited November 9, 2010 by SecretKei

[Shmurps]

Sorry a bit OT but does anyone know why racing greyhounds are fed bread and weetbix?

[Liath]

Anyone with a cav on raw diet? I have been feeding raw her for just over 2 months now and feel i don't have the mix right.

This is what I mix up and give her 1/2 cup a day, chicken neck, 2 biscuits (2x2's). I had to fiddle with the amounts until I found a portion that didnt put weight on her, because of her knees she is not an active dog. She loves the below and woofs it down every night. Is there to much pasta/rice/oats? Should there be more vegies? I used to add natural yoghurt and kelp powder when I gave her dinner but she didnt like it.

2kg chicken/beef mince

1 cup cooked brown rice

1 cup cooked pasta

200g grated vegies (carrots/zuccini)

2 eggs

2 cup oats

1/2 cup bran

1/2 cup wheat germ

4 caps flaxseed oil

1 tsp garlic

150g honey

That sounds like a LOT of grain to me. A little rice, pasta or oats wont hurt but they don't necessarily need it. Your 2x2 biscuits contain wheat too.

If it were me I'd cut out the rice/pasta/oats/bran altogether (or at least cut it down). Wheatgerm contains vitamin E which is good, but it can go rancid so keep it cool. Omega Pet oil would be a better option. Add some variety to your veg (green leafy veg is good - spinach, pumpkin, cellery, green alfalfa, and/or fruit - apples, pears, oranges, bananas are all fine) and puree it in a blender until its mush.

Also, and most importantly, you need to add some bone to your dogs diet. Either whole raw meaty bones or pet mince containing bone. Add the (crushed) shell of the eggs into your mix too.

You should probably add some offal in too - liver in particular.

Other things you could add (if you wanted to) are canned sardines or mackeral, cottage cheese, natural yogurt, parsley and ACV.

Hope that helps :D

eta, just saw that you give her chicken necks as well. I'd substitute her 2x2's for another neck, or swap her meal for a wing, drumstick, thigh, lamb flap or shank now and then.

Thanks, helps alot, you have given me ideas that i can work with and it wont take much to do. I got the recipie from a raw web site and I always thought it was to much grain.

[skip]

I have two small dogs who compet in agility. After much discussion on the weekend at a comp I have decided to get a little weight off them.

Particularly the smaller chi x foxy. From what I have just read is a ammount of food equal to 2-4 % of their optimal body weight correct as a daily ammount to feed?

I am weighing what I feed for each dog and also keeping a measure of their weight. My last dog was a rottie so it is a spin out to feed so little and I find it hard specially as they make out they are starving :D

Harder still as they only do food treats for agility and I can't get the chi to tug. Not going to happen this lifetime

Besides the raw diet made yourself I wonder if anyone has a comment on prepared raw diet mixtures. At a comp recently I found some info on "vets all natural". Besides a made raw mix they had a packet of grains, vitamins etc which you add your meat to. Anybody try some products like this?

Or does everyone do the time and devise their own meals? What website has the best proposed raw diets to attempt?

Thanks

[Guest Panzer Attack!]

skip, how much do your dogs weigh? I have a Papillon that weighs about 2.7kg and I find that the prepackaged BARF mix I was buying goes off before I can finish using a pattie He is incredibly picky with his food and it was a task to even get him to eat a 1/4 of a brick a day... so by the the third day the food stinks beyond all belief and I throw it away. ARGH! He's very active and right now seems to be at a perfect weight, but when he loses even 100 grams he's too skinny and it's a battle to keep the weight on.

I'm curious as to how much to feed a tiny dog too. Poots has finished the majority of his growing now (6 months) and I was thinking of trying the Big Dog cat BARF patties as they might get consumed quicker and are made with the same stuff, just smaller! I worry about over and under feeding and ratios and all that jazz, but kibble just isn't a viable option for us as he basically hates eating it unless it falls out of a treat ball and then he gets bored after 5 pieces unless he's MEGA hungry.

E x

[Kirislin]

I might start looking into raw now, I've been given a food processor! :D

Bugger! not getting the food processor after all dammit.

How hard would it be to feed raw without one, I cannot afford to buy pre-made food.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Kirislin

[mushka]

I might start looking into raw now, I've been given a food processor! :D

Bugger! not getting the food processor after all dammit.

How hard would it be to feed raw without one, I cannot afford to buy pre-made food.

You can do raw without a food processor. The method is going to depend on what style of raw you want to do.

The Tom Lonsdale method is based on RMBs or whole carcasses and does not involve any vege purees:

http://www.rawmeatybones.com/petowners/feedyourdogrmb.php

Vets All Natural is a muesli grain-base that you just add meat-mince to.

http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/

I do a BARF style of feeding that does include vege purees but the veges are only about 20% of the diet. And I use a mix of fresh, frozen/thawed and cooked veges as well as soft fruit and sa small amount of VAN muesli. The freeze/thawing and/or cooking breaks down the cell walls so most of the stuff I use could probably just be mashed rather than processed. I do like to puree liver though as otherwise my dog picks it out and leaves it on the lawn.

[mumtoshelley]

This is what I feed my guys this lasts 2 golden retrievers 1 whippet and a chihuahua 3 days.

1 cup of cooked brown rice

4kgs of meat minced and chunks

5 eggs plus shells

zuccini

carrots

bok choy

6 tablespoons of flaxseed oil

3 tablespoons of yoghurt (if I have some on hand)

Once a week I would add 2 cans of mackeral,sardines or salmon and some liver,kidney and hearts. I'll also add cottage cheese to the mix, every 2nd or 3rd day they will get a meaty bone.