Raw/natural Chitchat

[Mas1981]

I was hoping that someone in here could offer me some advice on starting a raw diet, I was thinking of feeding one or 2 rmb's a day, some mince/diced meat and maybe some potato and veggies. I would rather avoid chicken for now and just feed all the other meats. I will be adding some VAN to the mince daily.

[k9fam]

Was just wondering is someone could offer an opinion. This diet seems to be working so far but am worried about potential gaps in nutrients etc.

Nearly 6 month old pup.

Raw chicken or turkey mince (60%)

Raw mixed vegies mashed (40%)

dollop of yoghurt

splash of olive oil.

Pup loves the food, is a small breed so a bit worried about adding any sort of bones and also worries about adding red meats incase of allergies. Pup is excellent weight, great stools, fantastic coat etc.

Thank you in advance!

[cazxxz]

Will have to go harrass a couple of butchers. I get the feeling I'll be spending a lot of time there unless my long-term freezer stacking skills improve immensely.

We have two fridge/freezers, and I have forced my family to accept that I need the entire freezer section in one of the fridge/freezers for my dog's food. (And OK, I may have taken up a shelf in the other freezer too.) I have to shop for Jake approximately once a fortnight. The freezer is never empty!

I have heard that pork is not good for dogs.

I have heard this many times, but I have never heard anything that could convince me to switch from feeding my dog mainly pork bones. I don't give him any pork offal (but have rarely seen any available anyway). If the pork products are being sold for human consumption, the animals were deemed parasite-free, so that isn't a concern for me. Plus, I am careful with the worming tablets. The only slight concern is the density of the bones - they may wear his teeth faster than, say, lamb flaps and chicken necks. Pork bones were great for his weight loss (and now maintenance), so we are very happy with them.

Was just wondering is someone could offer an opinion. This diet seems to be working so far but am worried about potential gaps in nutrients etc.

Nearly 6 month old pup.

Raw chicken or turkey mince (60%)

Raw mixed vegies mashed (40%)

dollop of yoghurt

splash of olive oil.

Pup loves the food, is a small breed so a bit worried about adding any sort of bones and also worries about adding red meats incase of allergies. Pup is excellent weight, great stools, fantastic coat etc.

Thank you in advance!

Looks like your pup needs some offal. See if you can get some chicken livers, kidneys, and hearts. Chicken necks are good for small dogs. You should supervise the feeding. Do you have any particular reason for being worried about allergies?

[BCPuppy]

Was just wondering is someone could offer an opinion. This diet seems to be working so far but am worried about potential gaps in nutrients etc.

Nearly 6 month old pup.

Raw chicken or turkey mince (60%)

Raw mixed vegies mashed (40%)

dollop of yoghurt

splash of olive oil.

Pup loves the food, is a small breed so a bit worried about adding any sort of bones and also worries about adding red meats incase of allergies. Pup is excellent weight, great stools, fantastic coat etc.

Thank you in advance!

Definately need some offal in there, is the mince human grade or pet grade, pet mince is better as it containes minced up bones as well. I cannot reccomend bones enough, great for growing pups, keeping teeth clean, and overall enjoyment. Chicken necks and wings are great for small breeds, they can seem a little daunting (for you ) just make sure you supervise, your pup will love them. I found yoghurt great for baby tums, not sure about olive oil, I use omega oil. Also give some fish or sardines once a week. I just try to give as much variety of meats as possible, but because of supply problems I end up mainly with roo and chicken and goat occasionally.

Niques - we have 3 large chest freezers and still manage to not have enough room for everything, oh and a fridge freezer, OH was most put out when Marlin food found its way into "his" bait freezer I only get to shop every couple of months for the good bones and meat as only one supermarket in town and they only have the yuk canned stuff and kibble and the butcher doesnt have much variety and is outrageously expensive. So yes it does become an art to fit it all in when I get back from a big shop! I find a few carboard boxes in the bottom help with stacking things and keeping the oldest stuff on top. Dog food is also allowed in one drawer in the kitchen fridge freezer so I try to take out several days food at a time and migrate it to the kitchen so I am not constantly unpacking the chest freezer looking for the right items.

[Tikis_Mum]

Hello all! I'm a total noob on DOL so please bear with me!

We have a gorgeous just-turned-5-month-old staffy who we loooooooooooooove to bits! She started out on Eukanuba Puppy and that was quite a struggle to get through as she just wasnt eating it. We did finally get through the medium bag, but decided to change kibble. At the moment she has been doing quite well on Artemis Small/Medium Puppy, but we have decided to make the switch to BARF after doing some research and getting a glowing review from my partner's colleague who has been a BARFer for a while. This thread has also been a wealth of information (it's taken me 2 days to get through!! ). There's a few things I'm still a little confuzzled about which I hope can be ironed out before we get started.

Firstly, as a puppy, are we supposed to be feeding her between 5-10% of her CURRENT body weight, or her ADULT body weight? And how do I work that out? She's currently 8.8kg with adult weight being up to 15kgs.

Secondly, from this amount, is that per meal, or do we split it up into the entire day's food? ie: say she needs to be fed 500gms for her body weight.. is it 250gms for breaky and 250gms for dinner or 500gms each for breaky and dinner?

Thirdly, I'm extremely time poor (I have a 3hr round trip to work every day), so how does Dr B's pre-made BARF patties compare to making it up yourself? Does it cost more to DIY as opposed to buying pre-made? Is the nutritional value the same? I was thinking of giving her the pre-made in the morning when I'm rushing to work, then RMB for dinner where I can keep an eye on her.

I hope I'm making sense and havent repeated any questions that have been answered prior.. this IS a really long thread!

Thanks in advance!

[cazxxz]

Firstly, as a puppy, are we supposed to be feeding her between 5-10% of her CURRENT body weight, or her ADULT body weight? And how do I work that out? She's currently 8.8kg with adult weight being up to 15kgs.

Secondly, from this amount, is that per meal, or do we split it up into the entire day's food? ie: say she needs to be fed 500gms for her body weight.. is it 250gms for breaky and 250gms for dinner or 500gms each for breaky and dinner?

Thirdly, I'm extremely time poor (I have a 3hr round trip to work every day), so how does Dr B's pre-made BARF patties compare to making it up yourself? Does it cost more to DIY as opposed to buying pre-made? Is the nutritional value the same? I was thinking of giving her the pre-made in the morning when I'm rushing to work, then RMB for dinner where I can keep an eye on her.

I hope I'm making sense and havent repeated any questions that have been answered prior.. this IS a really long thread!

Thanks in advance!

Welcome to DOL, and to BARF!

According to The BARF Diet by Billinghurst, puppies aged three to six months should be fed up to three times each day, and from six months onwards, twice a day. They should be fed 5-10% of their body mass each day in total. Because your guy is a medium sized, the amount each day will be closer to 5% of his body mass.

5% of 9 kg is 450 g. So he should get a raw meaty bone that weighs about 270 g and a BARF patty weighing 180 g each day. The amount to be fed each day will increase until he is fully grown, when the amount should be reduced, then adjusted to maintain his optimum weight. I'm not sure how often you should check his weight to work out how much he should be fed.

Pre-made BARF brand patties are way more expensive than home prepared. The nutritional content will be the same because Billinghurst's recipe is used. A grooming shop near me (I'm in Melbourne) sells dog food prepared close to the BARF recipe for $7/kg - I can give you the details if you want to find other suppliers. Downside is a kilogram comes in a big brick, and I have to let it defrost partially, then repackage into the right size meals for my dog.

If you have a large enough freezer space or can buy a bigger freezer, being time poor won't be an issue. You could shop once every couple of months and make up a large batch of patties, then just use the rest of the freezer space for bones.

I don't bother making BARF patties and just give Jake table scraps as the vegetable content. You will figure out what works for you and your dog after a while

Edited June 15, 2010 by cazxxz

[Tikis_Mum]

Hi cazxxz! Thanks for the info.. I will definately take you up on that offer of finding a supplier! I'm also in Melbourne, northern suburbs, but dont mind where this place is.. I'll still check it out. Would love to be able to get something that would reduce my doggie food bill! Although we may have to get a chest freezer.. but THAT'S OKAY!

When you say the recipe of the BARF block is close to Dr B's recipe, what's missing that I can add in? Is it just extra veggie matter?

I'm so excited to be starting this feeding schedule.. I want my girl to be the best that she can be!

[cazxxz]

Hi Tikis_Mum, I just PM'd you.

It looks as though offal might be missing from the mix, but I can't be sure. It smells so nice, so it definitely has enough vegetables!

I know that excitement very well. It's been four years since I changed Jake's diet, and it's still fun!

[Tikis_Mum]

Hi cazxxz.. thanks for the PM. Am going to check out the site right now!

So if it's missing offal, then I can just add in some livers or kidneys when I separate the block into portions right?

[cazxxz]

Hi cazxxz.. thanks for the PM. Am going to check out the site right now! :D

So if it's missing offal, then I can just add in some livers or kidneys when I separate the block into portions right?

You could do that, or you could just feed your dog a meal of offal. My dog gets 200 g of liver once a week, and about 100 g of kidneys and a lamb heart as another meal once a week. This is pretty much a cliche, but I'll say it anyway: The goal is balance over time. Not every meal has to be "balanced and complete."

Let me know if you learn anything at the shop! I'm glad you don't have to go too far out of your way to get there, how convenient

[Hairy Maclary]

I have just changed my boy over to a raw diet - I am feeding him a mix called 'Scavenger's Find' from The Pet Chef here in Perth.

The ingredients are: "Special balance of finely ground beef and chicken bone, kelp, chicken, seasonal fruit & vegetables (typical: silver beet, Chinese veg, English spinach, carrot, turnip, beetroot, capsicum, celery), hint of garlic."

In addition to this he gets chicken wings, and sometimes sardines and natural yoghurt added to his food. From reading the thread I am thinking he also needs some offal once a week? Is there anything else I should give him to make sure he gets a good diet?

[Rileys mum]

Hello, I have a quick question. My 6 month old gsp pup is raw fed. I'm kind of playing around with amnts but have a question. How do you measure weights of foods?? I feed chicken carcuses but the amnts of meat on them varies. Their weight also obviously includes bone. I have the same issue with meaty bones. How do I measure weights? Does it include bone weight too? Eg I need to feed approx 600g meat a day. If I feed a chicken carcus that weighs total meat and bone 600g is that a correct feed. I feed minces, offal etc too but just can't work out how to balance it with the meat and bone meals. I hope this all makes sense.

[Mas1981]

Hello, I have a quick question. My 6 month old gsp pup is raw fed. I'm kind of playing around with amnts but have a question. How do you measure weights of foods?? I feed chicken carcuses but the amnts of meat on them varies. Their weight also obviously includes bone. I have the same issue with meaty bones. How do I measure weights? Does it include bone weight too? Eg I need to feed approx 600g meat a day. If I feed a chicken carcus that weighs total meat and bone 600g is that a correct feed. I feed minces, offal etc too but just can't work out how to balance it with the meat and bone meals. I hope this all makes sense.

I weigh the bone and include the whole thing in the daily rations.....

[Tikis_Mum]

Hi guys!

Well it's been just over a week since I've changed my staffy Tiki over to raw and it's been amazing! Her breath is so much better, her fur has got this fabulous shine and feels so thick and SOFT!! AND.. what comes out the other end isnt even HALF as stinky as what it was before!! I cant believe I'm getting excited about poop!! I'm SOOOOOO glad I changed from kibble to raw.. just gotta buy a new freezer now.. LoL!!

I'm still fiddling around with amounts of each feed.. but I think I'm getting there. At the moment, she gets a 227gm Dr B's kangaroo BARF patty for one meal, and then 5 chicken necks (or 3 wings) and 2 lamb bones (or 2 beef bones) for the other meal. She doesnt look as round as she did when she was on dry, her puppy tummy has sortta gone (she's still got some puppy rolls.. hee hee.. so cute!!), but she has been putting on weight... 500gms this week.. too much?? I'm still worried that she's not getting enough food to help her grow...? To me she looks a little skinny... .. but is it that sortta in-between "gangly teenager" look going on? She's just turned 5 months and weighs 9.5kg..

I'm kinda freaking out about doing my own barf patties, but I have to start soon cuz the pre-made is going to cost me a kidney in the long run. I've got some great advice from the lovely people on this thread.. but amounts are still doing my head in! If I was to give her one offal meal a week, would it be the same amount as the BARF patty I feed her? Would feeding her a pair of kidneys/one liver a week constitute the correct 5% of offal? I am still confuzzled....

[Mas1981]

I was finding that my 14 month old lab was not growing anymore on kibble but now that he has been on Raw for a month his chest has filled out, his coat is really shiny and his breath is also better. He is looking awesome even though he has been on an elimination diet now for almost 2 weeks of roo and sweet potato he still looks super!

[BCPuppy]

How do you know when to start cutting back on amount to feed? Marlin is nearly one year old and her growth has slowed down, but I guess she is still growing. I have been quite happily feeding the same amounts since she was little, I thought she was starting to look a little rolly recently, especialy when it got an effort to lift her in and out of the car hard to tell as she is a very fluffy border, but can feel her ribs easily, so have cut back a little on her meat and increased vegies. Last time I weighed she was 18kg, 45cm height and is a fairly solid build. I feed an average over a week that works out to around 350gms a day, that is probably only 50gms a day less than previously. Meaty bones every day, most days meat/offal and vegie slop, fish weekly.

She is always looking for food, thinks all the big white box containes is her own personal meat supply, just concerned that I am still giving her all the nutrition she needs.

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[puggies]

I'm liking the sound of Green Tripe . I'd be interested in knowing some sources too oonga ;) (I'm in Adelaide). I think butchers, etc would mainly be selling the bleached tripe. I'll add it to my list and ask around a bit

"Green Tripe - What is tripe?

Tripe is the edible lining and accompanying content of a ruminant's first or second stomach. Paunch tripe comes from the large first stomach and honeycomb tripe comes from the second. Green tripe means that the tripe has not been cleaned, bleached or scalded. The actual color can be green or almost black in color. It should never be white or almost white.

Are all types of tripe the same? No!

There are 3 types of tripe: Bleached, Cleaned and Green. Green tripe is also referred to as “unbleached” tripe since it has not been altered. Bleached tripe is white in color and has been thoroughly cleansed. Washed tripe is grey in color, had the contents removed, and has only been lightly rinsed and has not been cleaned to the same degree as bleached tripe. Green tripe has the contents removed and is not washed at all. It is the most natural form of tripe because it is not altered at all once removed from the carcass.

What makes green tripe the perfect ingredient?

There are many nutritional benefits from eating green tripe. It contains a very diverse profile of nutrients including enzymes, omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, probiotics, and phytonutrients. Green tripe assists your canine in utilizing their food as well, aiding in the digestion process. It can also be used as an appetite stimulator. In cases where dogs refuse to eat their meal it can aid in stimulating the appetite. Diets that do not contain live enzymes put a greater stress on the pancreas and other organs to help to breakdown food.

Why is green tripe so healthy?

Since tripe is taken from cow’s stomachs, they receive nutrients from grasses and grains that have been already processed naturally by the cow's stomach system. Also present within the tripe are naturally occurring gastric juices, amino acids and live enzymes not found in processed or cooked foods. These gastric juices are excellent cleaners for teeth. Amino acids are necessary for proper muscular development. It is also an excellent source of protein, fiber, fat and delivers equal calcium to phosphorus ratios. Green tripe also contains Lactic Acid bacteria, also known as Lactobacillus Acidophilus which is a good intestinal bacteria and a main ingredient in probiotics."

I know this is an old thread, but does anyone know how much tripe you should feed a dog?

[kirst_goldens]

i just read tikis mums post about kangaroo patties for a staffy pup - how old is she cause if u read the box kangaroo isnt good for puppies its too lean :s im not the best judge but going by her weight she isnt that young but if she is then i would swap to beef or one on the others until she is older

[cazxxz]

i just read tikis mums post about kangaroo patties for a staffy pup - how old is she cause if u read the box kangaroo isnt good for puppies its too lean :s im not the best judge but going by her weight she isnt that young but if she is then i would swap to beef or one on the others until she is older

Tikis_Mum isn't feeding her dog kangaroo exclusively, so shouldn't it be fine?

Hi guys!

If I was to give her one offal meal a week, would it be the same amount as the BARF patty I feed her? Would feeding her a pair of kidneys/one liver a week constitute the correct 5% of offal? I am still confuzzled....

If you are making your own BARF patties, is there a reason you don't want to add offal to the mix? That would probably be easiest.

If you want to just feed offal once a week, just work out how much your dog should get for the week. So if you dog weighs 10 kg, you are feeding 5% of body mass per day, and 15% is offal (with twice as much liver as kidney or heart), you would feed one meal each week with 262.5 g of liver, 131.25 g of kidney, and 131.25 g of heart. Of course, these masses don't have to be precise! My scales only weigh to an accuracy of 5 g.

So. If you're feeding 70% RMBs, 15% offal, 5% fish, and 10% vegetables and "other" (this is what I do, I can't remember what Dr B's exact guidelines are), because the dog should get BARF mix that is equivalent to 30% of the food for the day, the one offal meal will equal the same amount of offal-free BARF that he'd get on the other days.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense! I'm not good at explaining maths :/ probably because it's intuitive to me.

I made a BARF/raw spreadsheet to calculate amounts once, I could dig it up if anyone thinks it might be useful. I think there might be online raw calculators, actually.

ETA: Chickens are my favourite source for livers, because they're the least work. If I buy lamb or beef offal liver, I have to cut them, and that's annoying. Lamb hearts are a manageable size for my dog, as are lamb kidneys.

Edited June 28, 2010 by cazxxz

[cazxxz]

Hello, I have a quick question. My 6 month old gsp pup is raw fed. I'm kind of playing around with amnts but have a question. How do you measure weights of foods?? I feed chicken carcuses but the amnts of meat on them varies. Their weight also obviously includes bone. I have the same issue with meaty bones. How do I measure weights? Does it include bone weight too? Eg I need to feed approx 600g meat a day. If I feed a chicken carcus that weighs total meat and bone 600g is that a correct feed. I feed minces, offal etc too but just can't work out how to balance it with the meat and bone meals. I hope this all makes sense.

I used to struggle with this one too. If you feed a variety of bones, it doesn't really matter. The "best" meat to bone ratio according to prey-model diets, from what I gather, is the lamb shank. Chicken carcasses have a good m:b. You will be able to tell if the ratio is good by looking at the faeces. If it's too dark, the bone content isn't high enough. If it's too white, the meat content isn't high enough.

Except for heart ("muscle meat"), I don't feed my dog any meat off the bone. Does your dog really need 600 g of just meat each day? My dog gets a meaty bone weighing around 500 g, but he is a 30 kg adult.....