Raw/natural Chitchat

[tomas]

You would be hard pressed to OD them on Omega 3 and again I gave you 'safe' guidelines to work with Also as mentioned we all have different ideas about feeding but EPO is not species appropriate in my book,it is of plant origin and you have 2 little carnivores. So save your money and buy good quality fish oil. I give the fish oil as insurance for it's anti inflammatory properties and because one of mine will not eat fish no way no how!

We agree on the species appropriateness of that. EPO contains mostly the omega 3 known as ALA, we mammals need to change this to the omega 3 fatty acids DHA and EPA to use it in our bodies. We humans make that conversion quite inefficiently, dogs (and cats) are even more inefficient at converting ALA to EPA. So it's best to feed fish oil, which already contains the EPA that they need. I don't think EPO hurts, it just isn't a complete substitute for fish body oil for dogs and cats.

Of course, you could argue that most wolves probably don't have access to fish oil, or even access to oily fish, all that often. But it's one of these things (like probiotics) that seem to enhance the health of dogs regardless of whether their ancestors ate it, so I think it's worth giving.

Yep they don't. But they have access to wild game whereas our dogs do not and the food we buy these days for our dogs and us is way out of whack in terms of Omega 6 to 3 ratio. Hence we give the fish to try and balance that back a little.

For those that wonder,Omega 6 is inflammatory and 3 is anti inflammtory.

[GSD's 4EVER]

For those that wonder,Omega 6 is inflammatory and 3 is anti inflammtory.

I've been tracking along in my dog's diet as you've described (with a bit of variations) for well over 10 years now. I give them fish once a week, but have not given the extra Omega 3 oils. I take these capsules myself, so now have included this with my girls' food, starting from breakfast this morning. A lot to read through, but a great thread for those of us who really want to do the right thing by our fur kids.

[Staranais]

Yep they don't. But they have access to wild game whereas our dogs do not and the food we buy these days for our dogs and us is way out of whack in terms of Omega 6 to 3 ratio. Hence we give the fish to try and balance that back a little.

I think it has more to do with what the meat animals are fed as they are raised, than whether they are wild or domestic species. What you say is certainly true of grain fed domestic ruminants from American style feedlots, however I haven't yet seen any evidence that grassfed wild game has a more beneficial omega 3/6 ratio than the grassfed domestic animals we tend to get in NZ and Aus. (But please share if you have data that contradicts that!)

Incidentally, grassfed meat also tends to have more vit E in it than grainfed meat. Useless fact of the day.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Staranais

[Diva]

I think it has more to do with what the meat animals are fed as they are raised, than whether they are wild or domestic species. What you say is certainly true of grain fed domestic ruminants from American style feedlots, however I haven't yet seen any evidence that grassfed wild game has a more beneficial omega 3/6 ratio than the grassfed domestic animals we tend to get in NZ and Aus. (But please share if you have data that contradicts that!)

Incidentally, grassfed meat also tends to have more vit E in it than grainfed meat. Useless fact of the day.

But plenty of animals are 'finished' in feed lots leading up to sale in Australia too, how can I tell what is grass fed it's entire life? Asking, I have found, usually gets blank stares.

[tomas]

I think it has more to do with what the meat animals are fed as they are raised, than whether they are wild or domestic species. What you say is certainly true of grain fed domestic ruminants from American style feedlots, however I haven't yet seen any evidence that grassfed wild game has a more beneficial omega 3/6 ratio than the grassfed domestic animals we tend to get in NZ and Aus. (But please share if you have data that contradicts that!)

Incidentally, grassfed meat also tends to have more vit E in it than grainfed meat. Useless fact of the day.

But plenty of animals are 'finished' in feed lots leading up to sale in Australia too, how can I tell what is grass fed it's entire life? Asking, I have found, usually gets blank stares.

You can't but feed fish oil at the safe levels I have detailed in the preceding pages and you are good to go.

[tomas]

Yep they don't. But they have access to wild game whereas our dogs do not and the food we buy these days for our dogs and us is way out of whack in terms of Omega 6 to 3 ratio. Hence we give the fish to try and balance that back a little.

I think it has more to do with what the meat animals are fed as they are raised, than whether they are wild or domestic species. What you say is certainly true of grain fed domestic ruminants from American style feedlots, however I haven't yet seen any evidence that grassfed wild game has a more beneficial omega 3/6 ratio than the grassfed domestic animals we tend to get in NZ and Aus. (But please share if you have data that contradicts that!)

Incidentally, grassfed meat also tends to have more vit E in it than grainfed meat. Useless fact of the day.

That was my point. But also farm raised animals can be finished with grain as stated above and also they usually eat a smaller variety of plant species than our domestic ungulates.

If you want to check it out,google wild game omega 3 levels and domestic game omega 3 levels nz australia.

We should all take fish oil and give to our dogs as a preventative! I take fish oil daily at a high level and am VERY active, if I miss it a few days my knees notice it first as I do over 3 hours of exercise a day.

[Diva]

You can't but feed fish oil at the safe levels I have detailed in the preceding pages and you are good to go.

I also feed wild rabbbit and venison, which I hope helps. And sometimes fresh or tinned fish - but they aren't that keen on fish really. I have spoilt fussy dogs

[GSD's 4EVER]

You can't but feed fish oil at the safe levels I have detailed in the preceding pages and you are good to go.

I also feed wild rabbbit and venison, which I hope helps. And sometimes fresh or tinned fish - but they aren't that keen on fish really. I have spoilt fussy dogs

My last GSD was a real "Princess" about not eating the raw fish, so I poach it just enough to break it up, let it cool & serve up, water & all. :D

[corvus]

Tapeworms only come from fleas!

But Hydatid tapeworms come from muscle meat or organ meat, often organ meat. Perhaps that's why your vet suggested offal, HH?

Even so, there would be HUGE consequences if cysts turned up in organ meat being sold for human consumption. They will always tell you to cook it well anyway, but we do take it for granted that the meat we buy will be free of parasites.

[Gretel]

<We should all take fish oil and give to our dogs as a preventative! I take fish oil daily at a high level and am VERY active, if I miss it a few days my knees notice it first as I do over 3 hours of exercise a day.>

Sorry Tomas but I'm just going slightly off topic.... How much fish oil a day do you take? I'm taking it for arthritis.

[Diva]

My last GSD was a real "Princess" about not eating the raw fish, so I poach it just enough to break it up, let it cool & serve up, water & all.

I'll try it :D

[tomas]

<We should all take fish oil and give to our dogs as a preventative! I take fish oil daily at a high level and am VERY active, if I miss it a few days my knees notice it first as I do over 3 hours of exercise a day.>

Sorry Tomas but I'm just going slightly off topic.... How much fish oil a day do you take? I'm taking it for arthritis.

Hmmm..

It varies . But I use the Coromega sachets so going by them I usually have 6-9 a day...meaning I am getting 2100-3150 EPA and 1380-2070 DHA a day. Total Omega 3 is 3900-5850. Or that is 12000mg - 18000mg of fish oil.... ,so 12-18 caps a day if it was in capsule form. I weight 80kgs or 176lbs at 6% bodyfat.

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Staranais - EMPTY YOUR INBOX LADY! :p :D

[huski]

I was at the local Chinese supermarket today and they had big packets of dried whole anchovies (heads and all) for $2.50 a packet. I'm not sure about the nutritional value, but the dogs love them for a treat!

Edited August 30, 2009 by huski

[Gayle.]

What's the salt content on them, Huski? They have them in Coles here, just little packs but I was a bit apprehensive about how salted they are.

[huski]

What's the salt content on them, Huski? They have them in Coles here, just little packs but I was a bit apprehensive about how salted they are.

I had a look at the back of the packet and it doesn't list salt or the amount of salt in it.

I actually licked one (ew ew ew) and it didn't taste very salty. I figure for an occasional treat they'd be ok.

[Gayle.]

I buy a particular brand of cat food as a treat for our Maine Coon, as it has dried fish pieces in it (it's a supermarket brand but not one of the cheap ones). She gets it with her RC kibble and picks out the fish pieces and devours them. I thought it would be cheaper and easier to just buy dried fish for her and add it to the RC, but the anchovies in Coles were the only ones I could find. They were in the Chinese grocery section.

I actually licked one (ew ew ew) and it didn't taste very salty.

I dare ya to do that to a piece of raw liver! LOL!

That's definitely going above and beyond the call of duty.

[Got Spots]

Arrrggghhh we fell off the first page.

But anyway - just got Dr B's books

Haven't put feed your dog a bone down - it is awesome so many questions answered.

Also reading a book about fearful dogs by Wilde who worked with wolves - it has been very insightful and a thoroughly recommended read from wags bookstore in Aus - she mentions that corn is another evil

BAH - OH reckons we are running out of things to feed her

Was feeding Frosty Paws thinking it was cheap and ok - $5 for 8 patties

However it has corn in it so swapped to Dr B's and it worksout the same price per patty - ARRRRGGGHHH

Her allergies are dreadful and she is grumpy and aggressive because of it - so frustrated

No only getting Dr B's and raw bones

Suspect there is a meat component

Have an appointment with a dermatologist in October - some response from Polaramine and have got some cortisone cream topical 0.05%

At wit's end

[oceanaussi]

Where are you located, Neats?

I've been feeding raw for a while now and am absolutly amazed on how little comes out of my dogs!!! Their coat is smooth as, they're happy and look well. I swap between raw rolls and self-made raw. Not cutting up the meat anymore but still struggle with veggies. Am trying can veggies in the moment.

[Got Spots]

I live on the Sunshine Coast

I can get the meat/mince already done and cut up no problems there is a place down the road that only sells fresh meat for pet food, have been considering buying a juicer.

Just trying to work out the logistics of a juicer + meat adn how to package it for freezing at least a week ahead