Raw/natural Chitchat

[Tikis_Mum]

Hi guys! Havent been on for a while and catching up on the last few posts.

I'm also feeding her lamb and chicken as well as the roo patties... I've noticed beef makes her scratch a little so I think I may have to leave it out.. unless I'm seeing things.. I might try beef again. She hasnt lost any weight tho.. In fact she's been putting it on.. about 500gms a week! Little fatty.. She now weighs 10kg at 5 and a half months! LoL! I think she's been getting her fat from the lamb bones I'm feeding her... I was worried that they are a little fatty, but wouldnt that make up for the fat that's missing in the roo? She's also just started getting deer bones.

I've been thinking of just using chicken livers, lamb hearts & kidneys as the offal.. is that going to be enough variety?

cazxxz.. I think I'm gonna need that spreadsheet.. I'm having so much trouble wrapping my brain around this! I am officially dumb...

[elsa]

Hi guys! Havent been on for a while and catching up on the last few posts.

I'm also feeding her lamb and chicken as well as the roo patties... I've noticed beef makes her scratch a little so I think I may have to leave it out.. unless I'm seeing things.. I might try beef again. She hasnt lost any weight tho.. In fact she's been putting it on.. about 500gms a week! Little fatty.. She now weighs 10kg at 5 and a half months! LoL! I think she's been getting her fat from the lamb bones I'm feeding her... I was worried that they are a little fatty, but wouldnt that make up for the fat that's missing in the roo? She's also just started getting deer bones.

I've been thinking of just using chicken livers, lamb hearts & kidneys as the offal.. is that going to be enough variety?

cazxxz.. I think I'm gonna need that spreadsheet.. I'm having so much trouble wrapping my brain around this! I am officially dumb...

[elsa]

Many dogs are allergic to Beef, so it could be that causing the itchys

[pixie_meg]

Hi all, I'm seriously considering making the switch to BARF. I'm a little confused about quantities however. I need to go weigh Oberon but I suspect he weighs about 35kg. I've read a couple of different percentages to feed. So is it right to think i should feed him 2% of his body weight. He is 10 months old and is naturally very lean. he usually eats more dry food than the packet recommends.

[Diva]

Hi p-m. You must be sick of me replying to your posts but as no-one else has I'll have a go.

2% is about 3/4 kilo if he is 35 kg now, that sounds about right for him. He's about 10 months old I think? So probably if he's 35 kg now he won't get too much bigger - maybe another 5kg-ish, maybe a bit more, hard to say without seeing him and his relatives.

I'd suggest you weigh him and start at 2% but keep a close eye on his condition. If he wants more and looks like he could do with it just increase the ration. I'd also split it across two meals. None of mine have had any tendency to overeat as youngsters anyway, if that happens with this breed it seems to come with middle age (just like me, LOL).

[pixie_meg]

Thanks Diva, appreciate it. When it comes to meat Oberon can be a super guts.

So far today at a guess he ate:

200g of beef liver(so glad he liked it without having to mix it in) and

about 500g of the following mixed up:

minced chicken frames

and beef heart and tongue chunks

1/2 green apple

1/2 carrot

garlic

flaxseed oil

some oats

1 egg and shell

is 100g of liver or offal right each day. I gave him 200g today because he didn't have any yesterday.

I see a lot of people are being very careful about proportions and getting it 'right'. What happens if your proportions aren't right? what can i expect to see over the next week for example.

I expect he'll want the same amount for dinner but thats almost double the 2%. He does run a lot at the dog park so maybe he needs it.

[Diva]

Maybe he does need it. I wouldn't hold it back if he does, unless you see him getting a bit porkie. Really your eye and your judgement are the best guide as to how much to feed.

Generally for offal the rule of thumb is about 10% of the total diet, of which about half is liver and the rest kidneys, brains etc. It can be a proportion of each meal but it doesn't have to be. Some meals can have more and some less or none. You are aiming for balance over time (although too much offal at one sitting can give some dogs the runs).

Liver is one thing to be careful with. A balanced raw diet must have some, but you can cause problems if you feed too much. So not more than 10% of the food in liver over a week, much preferably around the 5%. Some of the bone should be edible - and I assume your minced frames are providing that.

Some people are completely anti-grain, but from experience mine do fine with some oatmeal, barley or rice in their diet. The other thing to go for is variety in types of meat, so that he gets both red and white meats and different sorts. All just my opinion of course, I'm not some huge expert in this stuff.

[pixie_meg]

Maybe he does need it. I wouldn't hold it back if he does, unless you see him getting a bit porkie. Really your eye and your judgement are the best guide as to how much to feed.

Generally for offal the rule of thumb is about 10% of the total diet, of which about half is liver and the rest kidneys, brains etc. It can be a proportion of each meal but it doesn't have to be. Some meals can have more and some less or none. You are aiming for balance over time (although too much offal at one sitting can give some dogs the runs).

Liver is one thing to be careful with. A balanced raw diet must have some, but you can cause problems if you feed too much. So not more than 10% of the food in liver over a week, much preferably around the 5%. Some of the bone should be edible - and I assume your minced frames are providing that.

Some people are completely anti-grain, but from experience mine do fine with some oatmeal, barley or rice in their diet. The other thing to go for is variety in types of meat, so that he gets both red and white meats and different sorts. All just my opinion of course, I'm not some huge expert in this stuff.

thanks again.

[Diva]

thanks again.

You're welcome, those faces he is pulling in your signature always make me smile.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Diva

[sebastion 2]

I don't have any interesting input but wow this thread is amazing and I am learning so much...thankyou to everyone who has contributed

[ravenau1]

Hi everyone

I've had a quick read through this thread (and elsewhere on the net) and I have a couple of questions if someone wouldn't mind answering. Sorry if they've been answered somewhere and I missed it.

Firstly, chicken frames. I've been unable to source free range chicken frames anywhere in WA. Is it necessary to feed these or can I substitute something else to fit the nutritional requirement these fill.

Also I am a bit confused about the amount to feed. I've read that it should be approx 2-3% of the dog's weight. But then I read that a puppy should be fed 2-3% of the expected adult weight. So a full grown dog and a puppy should be fed the same amount?

Thanks

[Tiggy]

Hi everyone

I've had a quick read through this thread (and elsewhere on the net) and I have a couple of questions if someone wouldn't mind answering. Sorry if they've been answered somewhere and I missed it.

Firstly, chicken frames. I've been unable to source free range chicken frames anywhere in WA. Is it necessary to feed these or can I substitute something else to fit the nutritional requirement these fill.

Also I am a bit confused about the amount to feed. I've read that it should be approx 2-3% of the dog's weight. But then I read that a puppy should be fed 2-3% of the expected adult weight. So a full grown dog and a puppy should be fed the same amount?

Thanks

Puppies can be fed up to 10% of their bodyweight a day. Just feed the normal chicken frames most butchers sell.

[ravenau1]

Thanks for your reply Tiggy

[sezling]

I know its a while since people have written in this thread but I hope u can help me out. We recently restarted our dog on an all raw diet. The problem I'm having is with bones as he tends to vomit small bits of what seems like cartilage after (does this with salmon and lamb necks). Today I gave him a raw roo tail (I used to give him dried ones and he had no problem) and I came back to find white foamy vomit over a few places. I'm a bit scared of him perforating something and if this vomiting or regurgitating continues it can't be good even if his stools are fine (much better actually!) and his skin and energy levels are maintained.

Has this happened to others?

[hopenfox]

Hi Sezling,

Bringing up a bit of bone is not uncommon for dogs new to raw...The problem usually disappears after a while when they're more used to the food.

How long after meals does he vomit the cartilage stuff? Does he re-eat it? You may be feeding a little too much bone which can cause him to offload some...

hopenfox

[SpotTheDog]

Hmm I find my guy will vomit up any bone he hasn't been able to chew right up - I gave him a chunk of oxtail a while back and he threw up one of the bones from near the end of the tail - looked like he'd swallowed it whole.

Since then I've focused mostly on chicken chunks - wings, necks, backs, quarters, so on, lamb riblets, lamb or beef heart, lamb or beef liver, haven't tried any kidney (it always made the cats puke violently so I've passed it over for now), got him a rabbit recently and fed that in thirds (he thoroughly enjoyed that). I also feed tripe, either beef tripe or honeycomb tripe. Just occured to me, it's not green tripe, it's been washed - can anyone confirm if this is okay?

Edit to add I've read the stuff on tripe at the start of this thread, but not the whole thread. Am going to chat to my butcher about a regular supply of raw for my animals, but I just want to make sure that white tripe isn't BAD for the dog per se.

My guy is doing very well indeed on raw - scratching has eased off considerably, weight is gone on without being fat, and the condition of his skin and coat is improving by the day.

Edited October 4, 2010 by SpotTheDog

[Diva]

I also feed tripe, either beef tripe or honeycomb tripe. Just occured to me, it's not green tripe, it's been washed - can anyone confirm if this is okay?

Edit to add I've read the stuff on tripe at the start of this thread, but not the whole thread. Am going to chat to my butcher about a regular supply of raw for my animals, but I just want to make sure that white tripe isn't BAD for the dog per se.

I don't think white tripe is harmful, it just has none of the properties that make green tripe a valuable food.

I'd be suprised if your butcher will sell you green tripe. I think it is against health regs in Australia for him to do so. It seems to be allowed in NZ.

[sezling]

Thanks for replying! I had been giving him dried roo tail in the past with no problems but today I found he'd thrown up some sharp pieces so I'm thinking of stopping those.. He's had chicken necks all his life so he is used to them but I'd stopped giving him chicken to try and rule out intolerances due to skin issues. I'm currently giving him (throughout the week) barf patties, sardines and rmbs. He does tend to break off pieces with all his bones but will swallow most rather than grinding the bits down as he is more keen to get on with the rest of it (he's a speed eater).

Also another thing. Stool issue ^^" I noticed the amount and size is alot smaller. It's like half a golf ball size and firm. The other day he had an issue with his anal glands and I'm not sure if its coincidental or if the stools arent enough to enable him to express his glands properly? (weird logic but I stand to be corrected) Before we had him on eagle pack and he never had an issue with his glands even when he started getting loose stools after a month on it

[Moi]

Hi all,

I'm currently deciding what food to feed the pup I plan on purchasing. I have been looking at dry dog food, but it is $$$ for the good quality stuff. I previously fed my late husky on a raw food diet for 12 yrs, following the give your dog a bone guidelines (ian billinghurst). However I think that longterm the diet was somewhat deficient in nutrients. My dog ended up with arthritis and neurological problems, which may or may not have been due to lack of essential nutrients. I will never know. It did give her great skin though and fixed her wheat intolerance. From the internet searches I have done it seems that studies into the natural diet have found similar findings, that it is hard to get it completely balanced longterm.

Has anyone fed their dog on a raw diet longterm? (over 8 years straight), were there any health problems?. I would love to feed raw again if the right balance can be found.

Thanks

[bedazzledx2]

I know lots of performance dogs that have been fed raw for their entire lives and subsequent generations with no problems. I have fed mine raw since they were around 2 and 6 respectively....no problems except my BC had 2 teeth cleanings prior to BARF and he is now 12 with lovely white teeth!!!!

Hi all,

I'm currently deciding what food to feed the pup I plan on purchasing. I have been looking at dry dog food, but it is $$$ for the good quality stuff. I previously fed my late husky on a raw food diet for 12 yrs, following the give your dog a bone guidelines (ian billinghurst). However I think that longterm the diet was somewhat deficient in nutrients. My dog ended up with arthritis and neurological problems, which may or may not have been due to lack of essential nutrients. I will never know. It did give her great skin though and fixed her wheat intolerance. From the internet searches I have done it seems that studies into the natural diet have found similar findings, that it is hard to get it completely balanced longterm.

Has anyone fed their dog on a raw diet longterm? (over 8 years straight), were there any health problems?. I would love to feed raw again if the right balance can be found.

Thanks