Raw/natural Chitchat

[Diva]

I'd really like to see something scientific to back up this "theory" which to my mind sounds like nothing more than "someone on DOL said it so it must be true".

Bone and meat digest at different rates, meat and vegetables digest at different rates, fat and muscle digest at different rates. If a dog eats an entire small animal, all the parts of the animal, including the contents of it's digestive tract will all digest at different rates.

I think the theory comes from a similar non-mainstream theory in human nutrition, that I seem to remember had its hey day back in eighties. I don't subscribe to the theory for dogs or people.

[RallyValley]

Our dogs are already fed a mix of biccies and (cooked by my mum) wet food so that shouldnt be an issue! :D Would you think changing to 70% BARF is too drastic for a 13yo?

[Staranais]

Apparently it has to do with raw and dry food being digested at different rates, so feeding both together may cause a stomach upset.

I'd really like to see something scientific to back up this "theory" which to my mind sounds like nothing more than "someone on DOL said it so it must be true".

Bone and meat digest at different rates, meat and vegetables digest at different rates, fat and muscle digest at different rates. If a dog eats an entire small animal, all the parts of the animal, including the contents of it's digestive tract will all digest at different rates.

Yes, I have heard the theory, but don't buy it myself. The theory as I heard it was that grains take longer than raw food to digest, so feeding a mixture of grains and meat holds the raw food in the gut for longer, allowing any pathogenic or opportunistic microbes more opportunity to colonise the gut. I guess it could be true, but lots of things digest at different rates, even within a raw diet. And as I say, almost all dogs I've seen (and most owners I've talked to) who mix raw and kibble seem to have no issues with it.

However, even if the theory is dodgy, that doesn't mean that some dogs don't still have issues digesting raw and kibbled food served at the same time. At least, I don't see why the owners would have lied to me about what they'd experienced. :D

[Diva]

However, even if the theory is dodgy, that doesn't mean that some dogs don't still have issues digesting raw and kibbled food served at the same time. At least, I don't see why the owners would have lied to me about what they'd experienced. :D

I'm sure your friends don't lie to you anyway Staranais, let alone about this. Sometimes the mechanism and real causality is hard to pin down, and the best you can do is go with what works. Because mine are sometimes looked after by others they switch from a 90% raw diet to a kibble and/or cooked diet and back again. Apart from one losing weight when she goes off raw (and that could be fretting because I'm not there, not the diet) they cope fine. I have no qualms about a part good quality kibble part raw diet but would not be suprised if some dogs don't do well on it.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Diva

[beenie]

Ok, I think we're onto something here!

I served up the usual bowl of kibble this morning - it sat untouched. I left it there from 7am till midday. Not a morsel was eaten.

I went and got a bag of VIP Chunkers (I know, probably not the best but I had 2 kids in tow and I have bronchitis so not really up to analysis packages and making comparisons right now) a bag of assorted bones at the butchers and some chicken frames. They were all out of dog loaf at the butchers, was lucky to get a bag of bones! Will have to go back.

Gave her the Chunkers - about 150 - 200g... it disappeared in 2 minutes flat. :rolleyes: with much licking of chops and wagging tail!

She;s now happily sleeping under the patio table after spending a good hour burying and digging up her bone

I have frozen the rest of the 'balls' in 300g lots. Any guide on how much a 4-5month old puppy (medium breed) should have if I'm also giving a bit of dry food??

[Gayle.]

My elderly Lhasa gets Chunkers balls when the big kids have bones or chicken pieces......Madame 15 cant chew bones as she doesn't have enough teeth left. I give her about 12 balls for her one meal a day. She likes them, but likes the mince/egg/vegetable/rice mixture I make up more.

She won't eat the 4 Legs balls though. She's so old that I just give her whatever she'll eat and I'm not above cooking some eggs just for her but the big kids go hungry if they get picky about din-dins.

[Red Fox]

Apparently it has to do with raw and dry food being digested at different rates, so feeding both together may cause a stomach upset.

I'd really like to see something scientific to back up this "theory" which to my mind sounds like nothing more than "someone on DOL said it so it must be true".

Bone and meat digest at different rates, meat and vegetables digest at different rates, fat and muscle digest at different rates. If a dog eats an entire small animal, all the parts of the animal, including the contents of it's digestive tract will all digest at different rates.

I agree GayleK, it's a theory and nothing more. I've read/heard the same thing from quite a few different sources (including DOL ) but have never seen any research to back it up so no clue or not if the theory is true. In my case Kei never had an upset when I was feeding him a combo of raw and dry so definetly not true for him

[Elfin]

I have been using broccoli in my veggie slops... now I have just been told that broccoli can be toxic to dogs? Please tell me that's crap.

[GSD's 4EVER]

I have been using broccoli in my veggie slops... now I have just been told that broccoli can be toxic to dogs? Please tell me that's crap.

my dogs have had raw. chopped broccoli for years. :D

[Elfin]

I have been using broccoli in my veggie slops... now I have just been told that broccoli can be toxic to dogs? Please tell me that's crap.

my dogs have had raw. chopped broccoli for years. ;)

Phew...!

Thank you :D

[Got Spots]

Have made a couple of batches of slops but needs a little work

The toads turn their noses up at it and prefer BARF patties - spoilt buggers

Have been using pumpkin, carrot, broccoli, bok choy, beans with yoghurt, eggs, and other treaties

May have to adjust the recipe slightly

[piper]

Have made a couple of batches of slops but needs a little work

The toads turn their noses up at it and prefer BARF patties - spoilt buggers

Have been using pumpkin, carrot, broccoli, bok choy, beans with yoghurt, eggs, and other treaties

May have to adjust the recipe slightly

Mine old boys were never keen on their veggie slop meals unless I added either a tin of sardines to their bowl (mixed through thoroughly with fork to break them down) or put some liver in the blender with the veg. I will say without it they would eat it but it was more slowly and less licking clean of bowl afterwards.

[GSD's 4EVER]

Have made a couple of batches of slops but needs a little work

The toads turn their noses up at it and prefer BARF patties - spoilt buggers

Have been using pumpkin, carrot, broccoli, bok choy, beans with yoghurt, eggs, and other treaties

May have to adjust the recipe slightly

Mine old boys were never keen on their veggie slop meals unless I added either a tin of sardines to their bowl (mixed through thoroughly with fork to break them down) or put some liver in the blender with the veg. I will say without it they would eat it but it was more slowly and less licking clean of bowl afterwards.

Have you looked into using my Apperteaser Powder just get them going when they might turn their nose up at what you've offered ?? Just a suggestion .....

[tomas]

Have made a couple of batches of slops but needs a little work

The toads turn their noses up at it and prefer BARF patties - spoilt buggers

Have been using pumpkin, carrot, broccoli, bok choy, beans with yoghurt, eggs, and other treaties

May have to adjust the recipe slightly

Maybe they are telling you they don't need veggies?

Mine have been prey model rawfed ofr the last 3 years now. No veggies in all that time. Never had an issue with dogs finishing all their meals and looking for more even on gorge days!

I feed 80 % meat,10 % bone and 10 5 organs of which 5 % is liver. Simple.

[GSD's 4EVER]

I feed 80 % meat,10 % bone and 10 5 organs of which 5 % is liver. Simple.

Every dog is different though Tomas :D That's why it's very "trickey" trying to get just the right balance. 80% meat just wouldn't work for my Mishka at her age. She's nearly 12 & needs more fibre in her diet (raw, ground up vegies) to keep her system "running on all cylinders". The percentages you're recommending are probably great for your current situation, but this will change over time.

I think that's why this is such a great thread ... there's no exact science & people are willing to discuss their own particular experience(s) in order to help someone else out ....

[sandra64]

i find using a bit of vets all natural complete mix in with whatever raw meat i am using usually chicken or blade steak,but i also add their vegies and whatever leftover's i have in with it. i dont live by vets all natural, but i find it saves me buying all the ingredients ( kelp and lecithin and such) its all in the mix. my 6month old girl has not a problem munching on a cold stick of celery or cold watermelon.

Edited November 7, 2009 by sandra64

[tomas]

I feed 80 % meat,10 % bone and 10 5 organs of which 5 % is liver. Simple.

Every dog is different though Tomas That's why it's very "trickey" trying to get just the right balance. 80% meat just wouldn't work for my Mishka at her age. She's nearly 12 & needs more fibre in her diet (raw, ground up vegies) to keep her system "running on all cylinders". The percentages you're recommending are probably great for your current situation, but this will change over time.

I think that's why this is such a great thread ... there's no exact science & people are willing to discuss their own particular experience(s) in order to help someone else out ....

Really one of my dogs is 10 and does'nt have a problem in that dept.

I guess all dogs are different which is why they in all their shapes and sizes have the same DNA...

But sure each to their own. My point is,people make feeding FAR too complicated. God save any of you that can be bothered mashing up all these veggies etc,seriously I used to. But my dogs look WAY better and are more energetic now than they ever have been,that's a 10 year old,2 x 9 year olds a 5 and a 3 1/2 year old.

As dogs age they don't utilise protein quite as well as when they are younger and need more not less of it as a percentage of their diet.

Oh and it's not tricky at all getting the balance right. It's simple! 80/10/10. Chuck it down and leave them to it.

I have helped them out,I saved them a bucket of time and energy and their dogs will benefit

[tomas]

i find using a bit of vets all natural complete mix in with whatever raw meat i am using usually chicken or blade steak,but i also add their vegies and whatever leftover's i have in with it. i dont live by vets all natural, but i find it saves me buying all the ingredients ( kelp and lecithin and such) its all in the mix. my 6month old girl has not a problem munching on a cold stick of celery or cold watermelon.

Ok playing devils advocate,by adding kelp in whatever amount ,how can you be sure you are not throwing their thyroid totally out of whack?

[sandra64]

i find using a bit of vets all natural complete mix in with whatever raw meat i am using usually chicken or blade steak,but i also add their vegies and whatever leftover's i have in with it. i dont live by vets all natural, but i find it saves me buying all the ingredients ( kelp and lecithin and such) its all in the mix. my 6month old girl has not a problem munching on a cold stick of celery or cold watermelon.

Ok playing devils advocate,by adding kelp in whatever amount ,how can you be sure you are not throwing their thyroid totally out of whack?

that why i buy vets all natural its all premixed to a vets specification. i didnt say make up my own amounts.

Edited November 7, 2009 by sandra64

[Got Spots]

I have tried VAN but it makes the skin allergies much worse, so I have had to ban all grains - thankfully it has worked

i do miss the smell of the VAN - smelt great

Are you close to the Sunny coast or Brissie (partner travels down for uni) I have a bag of VAN opened last month that I cannot use and am looking to GIVE AWAY - 5kg puppy

if anyone is interested