Raw/natural Chitchat

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Hello Raw Feeders

I have some more questions of the knowledgeable peoples!

1 - If you feed pet mince (ie bones ground in)- chicken or beef, would that have a sufficent amount of calcium and phosporous if I could only feed a raw meaty bones on a Saturday and a Sunday?

2 - How do you medicate your dogs? I currently have Benson on Advantix and Interceptor Spectrum. But do dogs need to be wormed every mth for intestinal worms or just heartworm, and other worms three mthly?

Edited August 6, 2009 by First Time Puppy Owner

[Gayle.]

1 - If you feed pet mince (ie bones ground in)- chicken or beef, would that have a sufficent amount of calcium and phosporous if I could only feed a raw meaty bones on a Saturday and a Sunday?

What else are you feeding? My dogs diet is balanced over time, not each and every meal and it's balanced by variety.

2 - How do you medicate your dogs? I currently have Benson on Advantix and Interceptor Spectrum. But do dogs need to be wormed every mth for intestinal worms or just heartworm, and other worms three mthly?

Australian Shepherds can have a sensitivity to Ivermectin so mine get medicated very carefully, with much consulting of the ingredients on the pack. Intestinal worms, about every 3 months. Heartworms, never. We don't have heartworm here so I don't medicate for it. If we go out of the area, I make sure they have plenty of insect repellent on.

[Staranais]

1 - If you feed pet mince (ie bones ground in)- chicken or beef, would that have a sufficent amount of calcium and phosporous if I could only feed a raw meaty bones on a Saturday and a Sunday?

Depends how much bone and how much meat is in the mince. I'm paranoid, so don't feed ground meat unless I know what's in it, especially not to a puppy, as there can be so much variation in what actually goes into it. At least with a RMB you can see what you're getting.

If you want to get technical, your pup "should" have about 2500 - 3000mg Ca per 1000kcal of food he eats, and the Ca:P ratio of his diet "should" always be between 1:1 and 2:1.

Chicken mince made from carcasses or necks has around 7000 - 8000 mg per 1000kcal so if that made up 1/3 to 1/2 of the diet you should be fine for Ca. The Ca:P ratio in most raw diets is determined mostly by the RMB, and the ratio in chicken mince made from backs or necks is pretty good. But all bets are off if there is other chicken bits ground in with the necks or carcasses, and I have no idea what kind of Ca level would be in the beef pet mince - once again, I may be paranoid, but I wouldn't feed the mince as a large component of the diet until you found out.

[yellowgirl]

1 - If you feed pet mince (ie bones ground in)- chicken or beef, would that have a sufficent amount of calcium and phosporous if I could only feed a raw meaty bones on a Saturday and a Sunday?

2 - How do you medicate your dogs? I currently have Benson on Advantix and Interceptor Spectrum. But do dogs need to be wormed every mth for intestinal worms or just heartworm, and other worms three mthly?

Hi FTP, I'm going to Lenoard's tomorrow to have a look at their chicken pet mince . I'm going to include it in my next batch while we're still sorting out bone amounts, types and frequency. I'll do 1kg of Lenoard's mince to 1kg of woolie's beef, lamb or pork mince (whichever is on special ) plus all my other regular ingredients.

Just wondering if giving your guys bones Saturday and Sunday might be too much for them in one hit (just thinking constipation-wise ;) )

For worming, I heartworm mine every 5 weeks and all-wormer every 3-4 months. Personally, I don't like the over-kill of the yearly heartworm injections or monthly all-inclusive wormers.

... here's a handy tip for everyone, chicken wings don't get minced up if you put them through the blender. They just fly around the bowl and then get stuck

[Got Spots]

OHHHHH thankyou for setting up this topic - I am loving it

Very tempted to switch to BARF

I have 2 whippies - Bella 14 mths (mischief) and Lucy almost 3 with nasty contact allergy on her tummy I have yet to conqueor after 15mths - very frustrating.

Currently the spoilt devils get either VAN or an allergy kibble called Vitalife by Petco (they also make enduro) - first ingrediant is roo meal, and it only contains roo, no wheat , cant remember the other ingrediants but very good from memory. If anyone wants them I will track them down through my pet food place

Then they get diced roo usually with omegaderm

Just instituted yoghurt tonight and by the look on Bellas face you would have thought I was poisoning her - very funny to watch - sniff food, look at me, look at food, look at me then tried food and decided it was ok.

Also just given them some "ocean fish" - can get it for about $3 a kg at pet food store - they seem to like it

Sometimes I get roo/heart or beef/heart/kidney - great place, lovely people

For treaties - bones most days - lamb ribs/ chicken wings / beef ribs / veal shanks (loved them) / roo tail / turkey necks

Don't bother with chicken necks as it is crunch crunch swallow

Went to the vet today for lucy b/c of her skin - so frustrated

i currently am bathing her 2x/week with EPO vet grade + EPO supplement

Am resorting to try Polaramine - vet said it might make her sleepy - nup no such luck

thanks everyone

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Thanks for the responses guys - I am formulating my meal plan this weekend and will post to get feed back from you guys!

[lindadiosa]

Hi guys!

Feeling really pleased with this thread. Im new to all this as I will be getting a nine week old girl staffie next week and am now considering raw feeding her.

Like I said, I've never owned a dog before so all this research is pretty overwhelming and also a bit confused as the breeder we are getting Esmeralda (that's her name) from is currently feeding her litter Science Diet so I'm trying to get a menu organised so I can ease her into it as soon as she comes with us next week.

My question is mainly concerned her being a puppy and not sure of portion control. How much should I feed her of each RMB, mince, veggies & fruit as I want to really include all the nutrients she requires although I can see vegies & fruit are not as big deal but then there is so much conflicting stuff out there.

So please any info you can give me or suggestions in the mean time I will keep on reading and admiring the passion all you guys have for your pets it's special to see.

Thanks!

[miniluv]

I was wondering as heart is a muscle meat can you use that as your main red meat instead of beef mince or pieces? I am currrently using big dog weaner mince and bones but am looking into cheaper alternatives as its recently gone up in price.

[Staranais]

I was wondering as heart is a muscle meat can you use that as your main red meat instead of beef mince or pieces? I am currrently using big dog weaner mince and bones but am looking into cheaper alternatives as its recently gone up in price.

I do that with my pup, most of her red meat is actually heart. The nutritional values are pretty comperable, except that heart is a little lower in calories/g and in zinc/g than most beef or lamb muscle meats.

Lindadiosa, I'd recommend you what I do to most puppy owners who are new to raw feeding, which is to start off with a semi raw, semi commercial diet instead of jumping straight into all raw feeding. This gives you more leeway to make mistakes with the diet while you're learning without it affecting your pup, and also allows you to introduce each raw food to your pup more slowly so you can work out what agrees with her and what doesn't. You can gradually add more raw and less commercial as you research further.

With a puppy the most crucial nutrient levels you need to consider are the absolute amount of Ca in the diet (determined mostly by RMB), the ratio between Ca and P (determined mostly by RMB), and the overall number of calories (too much = not great for growing joints). Pups also need more iron and zinc than you'd think (so should get a good amount of beef or lamb, not just white meats, in the diet) and also need approximately the right amount of vitamin A (so you need to feed at least some but not too much liver). So if I were you I'd have a read on (at least) those topics before you switch a little puppy over to all raw. It's not rocket science, but it is important to get it right.

I hope we get puppy pictures! I love staffy babies. ;)

[laffi]

I was wondering as heart is a muscle meat can you use that as your main red meat instead of beef mince or pieces? I am currrently using big dog weaner mince and bones but am looking into cheaper alternatives as its recently gone up in price.

Absolutely!!!!! Hearts are excelent quality muscle meat ;)

[miniluv]

excellent thankyou for your replies ;) now would you buy lamb, beef, ox heart and mix it up a little? and for the bones i am currently feeding mainly chicken bones as in frames, necks and wings as I find the other bones they don't tend to eat the bone part. Fish I feed once a week I bought whole fish this week and i feed offal as in liver and kidney once a week. Eggs they get once or twice a week, natural yogurt and I am planing on making up a veg mix also. Anything else you would ad into the diet??

[oonga]

for those of you who feed things like lung, spleen etc where do you source them from??

Do you just ask the butcher for these ;)

Also has anyone in Melbourne been able to source green tripe yet? or is it illegal to sell?

Is the canned Ziwipeak the best option as was suggested by someone here?

[Tintin Jac]

This may have been answered somewhere before but I can't find it.

Then again, it's a pretty daft question so maybe no one has been silly enough yet....

I know that you shouldn't feed cooked bones to dogs because of splintering but what about frozen bones? Are they likely to splinter? I have been feeding frozen bones to the boys and they don't seem to mind one bit but a friend said that it was dangerous.

Now I'll just ;)

[Staranais]

excellent thankyou for your replies ;) now would you buy lamb, beef, ox heart and mix it up a little? and for the bones i am currently feeding mainly chicken bones as in frames, necks and wings as I find the other bones they don't tend to eat the bone part. Fish I feed once a week I bought whole fish this week and i feed offal as in liver and kidney once a week. Eggs they get once or twice a week, natural yogurt and I am planing on making up a veg mix also. Anything else you would ad into the diet??

I just feed lamb heart mostly since it's easiest for me to source and they're all about the same nutrition wise, but no reason you couldn't mix it up if you liked.

The rest sounds like a good diet to me, as long as you're feeding appropriate quantities of each thing - as you can appreciate, it's quite possible to create a completely unbalanced diet even from good quality ingredients if you feed them in wildly inappropriate proportions!

[Gayle.]

and for the bones i am currently feeding mainly chicken bones as in frames, necks and wings as I find the other bones they don't tend to eat the bone part.

Have you tried lamb brisket bones? They are the rib cage of the sheep, so not weight bearing and not hard. My dogs love them and have no problems eating them.

On Friday nights I do my shopping so they both get a large chicken maryland each. I don't cut it up, just give it to them and it takes them ages to get through it. They have to work out the best way to eat it and the best place to start, so it gives their brains a bit of a workout too.

Avindie, completely off topic, but I love your dogs. Are they minis or normal size?

[miniluv]

and for the bones i am currently feeding mainly chicken bones as in frames, necks and wings as I find the other bones they don't tend to eat the bone part.

Have you tried lamb brisket bones? They are the rib cage of the sheep, so not weight bearing and not hard. My dogs love them and have no problems eating them.

On Friday nights I do my shopping so they both get a large chicken maryland each. I don't cut it up, just give it to them and it takes them ages to get through it. They have to work out the best way to eat it and the best place to start, so it gives their brains a bit of a workout too.

Avindie, completely off topic, but I love your dogs. Are they minis or normal size?

Yes I do feed brisket bones on the occasion but i do find they get left alot, the older girls do eat them no problems but the younger pups find it hard. I have bought the marylands too

and thankyou they are mini's

[WildatHeart]

Q1: Do I need a mix of different organs to obtain the optimum level of nutrients/vitamins required?

Q2: I just got some minced lamb’s fry, heart, ox liver from my butcher (which they did at my request ) How much of that should I mix into the mince for a daily dose? I would be mixing it with mince, along with a chicken carcass and some chicken legs to make up about 800 – 900gm worth.

[Gayle.]

If you're feeding it daily, you'd only need a really small amount.....less than 5% of the total.

[huski]

TBH I don't feed offal daily, I do a couple of 'offal' meals a week - generally liver - as well as one meal of heart a week.

[oonga]

Doesn't heart fall into the muscle group rather than the offal group?