Not Sure If This Is Reflux?

[poodle proud]

Hi all,

Osca sort of burps and then licks his lips after the first mouthful of food or just at random times in the day. It stops him in his tracks and it sounds like reflux. I asked my vet and she said some dogs just seem to do this.

What does everyone think? Is this just a harmless quirk or could it lead to a more serious problem? I know with the babies I work with we put them on medication for reflux if they are bothered by it but I don't know how to tell if he is bothered by it as he is generally a quiet dog anyway.

any thoughts or ideas are appreciated.

[stormie]

Orbit burps all the time. Sometimes he has a couple of swallows and licks his lips - I just call them sicky burps. I've never worried about them - better the air is out than in!

[Erny]

I know with the babies I work with we put them on medication for reflux if they are bothered by it but I don't know how to tell if he is bothered by it as he is generally a quiet dog anyway.

Are you talking human babies, or pups?

I'm not an expert, but I think part of the problem with reflux in humans is that the acid build up can irritate the esophagus.

But I would think this would not be as big a problem with dogs given their system allows for regurgitation so I presume their esophagus is more able to cope with it without harm ???

Somebody else will probably know better than I. Perhaps Staranais or Rappie?

I don't mind when my boy burps (even if it is sometimes a 'sick burp') as to me it means he is expelling air from his stomach. Being a deep chested dog I'm always conscious of propensity to bloat.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Erny

[puggy_puggy]

How old is Osca?

Puppies can have reflux that they grow out of.

[poodle proud]

Hi all, thanks for the replies

Erny I mean human babies, but as you say their bodies are different and I was wondering whether because of this it was unlikely to be a problem.

I don't mind when my boy burps (even if it is sometimes a 'sick burp') as to me it means he is expelling air from his stomach. Being a deep chested dog I'm always conscious of propensity to bloat.

I just wonder because it is after he starts eating anything and then randomly throughout the day, every day. He also seems to get upset tummies quite often and has vomited blood before.

The burps alone don't bother me too much but with all of this stuff I guess I just want to keep my eye on everything. We had another dog die this year of cancer in his anal glands. As a kid we just saw him scoot around on his backside and thought this was just an 'odd quirk'. If we had realised then that this was the cause of his cancer I know we would have jumped on it straight away.

I don't want to miss something with Osca, if that makes sense?

Puggy puggy, Osca is 5 years old.

[Staranais]

Somebody else will probably know better than I. Perhaps Staranais or Rappie?

No idea, sorry.

The only relevant thought I can come up with is that dog stomach pH is closer to neutral than ours is between meals, maybe gastric acid reflux is less of a problem for them? But I do know that dogs can damage their esophagus if you let their stomach acid reflux during general anaesthesia, or if you give them drugs that make their lower esophageal sphincters not work as well, so presumably their stomach content is still acidic enough to do harm if it pools in the esophagus for a while.

So that's a long way of saying, I don't know. I've never heard of a healthy dog burping causing itself problems, though.

[Starkehre]

Hi PP.

Yes, it does sound like it is reflux.

Yes, reflux is common in dogs, but usually just after eating, and when this is the case, there is not usually anything to worry about provided the dog seems fine in every other way.

However, as you have said that he does it throughout the day, and that he has vomited blood, I would be having some tests done.

Not trying to alarm you, and it may well be nothing or nothing serious, but I feel that I should let you know that both vomiting blood and reflux can be signs of Immune Mediated diseases. Please don't panic, I am not saying that he has one of these, but they are possible symptoms.

IMT (Immune Mediated Thrombocytopenia) can lay low for 2-3 months before the thrombocytes drop to a dangerously low level. I don't think you said how long it has been going on for. Other signs to look for (but only other possible symptoms) can be pale gums (anaemia) low temperature and lethargy, but sometimes these may not show until the dog is starting to crash.

I suggest you perhaps have a good look at his gums and inside his mouth for tiny spots of blood that look like he has pin pricks in his gums. These can be tiny and hardly noticable or there can be obvious bleeding in the gums also.

I am not a vet and certainly do not claim to know what is wrong with your dog, and I only know this as I have had 2 dogs with this IMT. One died and we managed to save the other.

I do hope that it is nothing at all.

[Akitaowner]

i have a dog that does this - i have never really thought much of it until more recently when i got home from work and she wasnt breathing normally - very laboured. So we rushed up to the vets before they closed and an x ray indicated fluid on the lungs. Neither the vet or myself could think of anything that she could have done to cause it at the time.

However after some reading around the subject of reflux - which she has had since a pup, any time of the day often when excited or exercising and also soon after meals. I came to the following conclusion.

The week i took her to the vets (she had never been for being sick ever before and shes 3) i had a new delivery of bones as they are both barf fed. She had lamb brisket everyday as i couldnt fit some in the freezer. Apparently a high protein diet can increase the incidence of reflux and weakenn the lower oesphogeal sphincter and let the stomach contents rise up and damage/irritate the tract.

Some of the info i read recommended feeding a spoonful of manuka honey before a low protein meal to reduce irritation and let the tract recover fully.

So i bought the honey and put a small amount on the top of her kibble (kibble brekkie and bones for dinner usually) which she loved and i have significantly reduced her bone intake, and we have had almost no reflux since.

Apparently a tell tale sign of this problem is really smelly burps (especailly if you feed bones as you get the half digested smell being brought up all the time. With Rogue it was easily capable of clearing a room of people!

hope this helps

[puggy_puggy]

Puggy puggy, Osca is 5 years old.

He's not going to grow out of it then. On of my ex foster pups had reflux but has grown out of it thankfully. She would do little throw ups in her mouth after eating and it didn't matter what she was fed.

Has he done it all his life and on every type of food you feed? Hyated Hernia's can be a cause of reflux.

[Erny]

Interesting info in your post, Akitaowner - thank you.

And yet again another good use for Active Manuka Honey .

[poodle proud]

Hi everyone.

I dont know how to quote different people in a reply so I'm sorry if this is messy.

Puggy puggy, Osca has done this since we got him at 2.5yrs

He has vomited flecks of blood twice since we got him, and every vet we went to wasnt sure why. When he vomited a puddle of frank blood this year he had x rays and blood tests. All they could tell us was that he hadnt swallowed foreign objects and that he didnt have as much fat around his vital organs that they thought he would have had. They labelled it generalised gastritis and put him on cimetedine and an anti-emetic to stop him vomiting.

He has seen the vet a couple of times since then and looked at his gums (thanks dyzney for all that info) and they have only said that he should have a couple of teeth removed which we plan to do when our tax refunds come. I looked at his gums just now and they are not overly pale and I couldnt see those pin prick spots you were referring to.

After all that vomiting business I changed his food to Eagle pack holistic duck which is supposed to be high quality ingredients, no corn, hypoallergenic blah blah blah $$$

He eats it, but I don't think there has been a great deal of change to when he was on hills science sensitive stomach. I have to admit that on wet food it was much worse both with the burping and the tail end. I am a bit reluctant to move him around on foods but I am open to any suggestions though.

Akitaowner, Manuka honey is fabulous and maybe I should give this a go? Osca doesnt get a lot of bones (particularly since the vomiting blood episode)but they do get a lamb shank once a week.

He is a quiet dog which sometimes you may think is lethargy but as soon as you say the big 'W' word he cries at you in protest for not putting your shoes on or the other dogs harness on quick enough So I presume if he was genuinely lethargic he would not react so differently so quickly.

Staranais I am not sure either and I hope it is nothing but I thought I would ask the DOL'ers because everyones experiences and knowledge are so varied. We have just started going to another vet and so perhaps I should ask them again when he hoes in to get his teeth done.

Is it worth trying another food? What sort of food would I be looking for?

[Akitaowner]

ideally my 2 would eat quite different diets - Rogue has a much more settled tummy (reflux and other end) when fed coprice and eagle pack - i combine them to make the eagle pack go further. She puts weight on easily so the coprice is fine for her with its higher grain content.

However Mav always does best on raw bones everyday - he drops weight quickly and gets the trots if hes fed too much coprice. IMHO i tend to think that the holistic sensitive foods are just marketting. with a sensitive stomach roo and rice is always a good natural option...

My vets didnt pick up on the reflux being the cause of our vet trip - didnt even suggest it after i told her about it?

i wouldnt be overly concerned - but maybe try to honey, just a small blob before food to coat the throat and see if it helps - as i said Rogue has been 99% improved by doing this and reducing her bone intake. It cant do any harm and Rogue loves her honey !!

[Starkehre]

You are welcome PP.

Well, all going well it doesn't sound as though it is anything really serious.

Best of luck with him.

[Stitch]

Have you tried him on a bland diet to see if it settles??

You could try Eukanuba Low Residue if you feed dry food or cooked chicken and rice which is the blandest diet of all.

[temperamentfirst]

Hi everyone.

I dont know how to quote different people in a reply so I'm sorry if this is messy.

Puggy puggy, Osca has done this since we got him at 2.5yrs

He has vomited flecks of blood twice since we got him, and every vet we went to wasnt sure why. When he vomited a puddle of frank blood this year he had x rays and blood tests. All they could tell us was that he hadnt swallowed foreign objects and that he didnt have as much fat around his vital organs that they thought he would have had. They labelled it generalised gastritis and put him on cimetedine and an anti-emetic to stop him vomiting.

Have they investigated for laryngeal paralysis?

How is he when he runs around a lot?

[poodle proud]

Thanks dyzney, I hope so too!

STITCH: Osca has been on chicken and rice several times with his tummy upsets. He still burps after eating it though. Is Eukanuba good quality? I have heard mixed reviews.

temperamentfirst: To be honest Ive not actually heard of that and it definitely wasnt mentioned. He is ok after running around a lot. He doesnt burp then. He just pants and sleeps when we get home. I just read about this condition and this doesnt seem to be what he has. His bark is not hoarse and does not change during exercise. Thankyou for mentioning it though.

Ive also just realised that he swallows a lot and licks his lips a lot. Not sure if this is relevant.

I know no one seems to mention Hills Sciencediet much but Osca seemed to do ok on the sensitive stiomach or oral care formula. Is it nutritionally ok? This was part of the reason I switched to EP because the ingredients were supposed to be better quality.