Vicious Dogs

[sibylle]

I am 60+ and have had dogs and cats most of my life.

I bought a female Welsh Terrier 2½ years ago, and she has grown up with my 10-year-old Burmese cat. About 2 years ago she was attacked by 2 pitt bulls, but my hand came in between, so she wasn't hurt. I don't know whether that was the trigger for her becoming aggressive.

She has been very jealous of the cat and sometimes out of the blue she would attack him. It became worse and worse, and in the end, I never left them alone. Unfortunately my cat died suddenly of a stroke 4 weeks ago. One should think: Problem solved. But I looked after my daughters cat for a week (I have done that before with no problems). The dog was so aggressive, so I had to tie her up inside the house and put muzzle on her.

The other day I walked her on the dog-beach, and she had her tail between her legs all the time. I have never seen that before. She usually wags when there are other dogs, but lately I have to drag her away quickly, as she will attack them after a little while. This morning there was a male puppy on the local beach, and I thought that would probably be all right. They both wagged and sniffed. But suddenly my dog got on top of the puppy and growled violently and would have attacked had I not pulled her off. Fortunately she is so small.

I am wondering whether there would be anybody who could give me advise, as I have never had a vicious dog before?

Regards Sibylle

[Kavik]

I think you should see a behaviourist who can help you with a regime to help with your dog's aggression. Have you done any training with her? Terriers can be fiesty little things!

In the meantime I would avoid walking her where there are other dogs, and would not bring a cat into the household until you get things sorted out.

Has anything changed that could have triggered such a change of behaviour (was it just after her attack)? Change of house, of routine, of food, new people coming or someone leaving? When did you notice that her behaviour changed? Is she desexed?

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I agree with Kavik. I would also go to a vet and ask them to do a health check and blood screen to rule out a physical or biochemical cause.

Often when dogs like terriers hit the 2 year mark you start to really see the breed characteristics come out in the temperament. This often also combines with the end of companion based training and socialisation to give you an issue. The more they act up, the less socialisation they get and then you have a real problem on your hands. This is tough for people who pick an adorable puppy who suddenly grows into a toey terrier, snotty sighthound or "don't mess with me" bull breed and it's the kind of thing a good trainer can help with.

However, the tail between the legs thing is not fiesty terrier. To me that sounds like something else is going on and I'd want to rule out her being in pain or hypothyroid before heading down the training path.

In the meantime, I agree with Kavik, don't introduce more animals into the household until this is sorted. Apart from the risk to the new animal, you will need the time, space and calm in your environment to get your terrier back on the right path.

[Nekhbet]

you definately need a behaviorist to come and see whats going on. She sounds anxious, fearful and explosively reactive.

if she is showing her tail between her legs do NOT introduce her to other dogs. SHe is telling you very loudly she is not comfortable and being on leash has no chance but to explode instead of run away. Sounds like you need an allover lifestyle makeover with the dog.

[sibylle]

I have been to obedience classes the first year. Later I have done clicker-training, and I also use "triangle of temptation", which has been suggested long time ago on dogz-on-line.

She is de-sexed, as she has got meat allergy, so I didn't want to breed. I feed her Eukanuba fish+potato dried and wet food. Nothing has changed, we have lived in the same house all the time. The behaviour has changed slowly. But she is only vicious to other animals, she loves people. I thought I had a watch dog, but I am sure she would lick the robbers to death, if they came.

Only the week before my cat died, I visited the vet for her vaccination. I also told the vet about her aggression, but apparently there is nothing psysical wrong with her.

But thank you for all your replies. I must think about that.

Regards Sibylle

PS I took this lovely photo of my dog and cat just last month, and I thought they would be fine, when they sleep together. See attachment.

I think you should see a behaviourist who can help you with a regime to help with your dog's aggression. Have you done any training with her? Terriers can be fiesty little things!

In the meantime I would avoid walking her where there are other dogs, and would not bring a cat into the household until you get things sorted out.

Has anything changed that could have triggered such a change of behaviour (was it just after her attack)? Change of house, of routine, of food, new people coming or someone leaving? When did you notice that her behaviour changed? Is she desexed?

[Staranais]

Hi Sibylle,

Obedience classes and clicker training are both good, but on their own they're mostly useful for teaching manners and tricks to "normal" dogs, not for fixing serious behaviour problems like aggression.

To fix aggression, you need someone who understands the different reasons why dogs become aggressive, and who has experience working with aggressive dogs before. That's what the people on this forum mean when they say to see a dog behaviourist. It's different to just attending a regular obedience class.

A good behaviourist can work wonders, but a bad or incompetent behaviourist is just a waste of money (at best). So if you say where you live, perhaps some people here can recommend good behaviourists that live near you who can help you work out why your dog is acting aggressively, and how to sort out her issues.

I do recommend you get onto the problem as soon as you can. Aggression issues often become worse, or become harder to fix, the longer the dog is aggressive for. So spending some time and money fixing this now could be a really good investment.

[sibylle]

Hi Staranais,

Thanx for that. I live in Southern Tasmania near Cygnet, 60 km from Hobart, but I don't think there would be anybody here.

Regards Sibylle

Hi Sibylle,

Obedience classes and clicker training are both good, but on their own they're mostly useful for teaching manners and tricks to "normal" dogs, not for fixing serious behaviour problems like aggression.

To fix aggression, you need someone who understands the different reasons why dogs become aggressive, and who has experience working with aggressive dogs before. That's what the people on this forum mean when they say to see a dog behaviourist. It's different to just attending a regular obedience class.

A good behaviourist can work wonders, but a bad or incompetent behaviourist is just a waste of money (at best). :rolleyes: So if you say where you live, perhaps some people here can recommend good behaviourists that live near you who can help you work out why your dog is acting aggressively, and how to sort out her issues.

I do recommend you get onto the problem as soon as you can. Aggression issues often become worse, or become harder to fix, the longer the dog is aggressive for. So spending some time and money fixing this now could be a really good investment.

[Aidan]

Hi Staranais,

Thanx for that. I live in Southern Tasmania near Cygnet, 60 km from Hobart, but I don't think there would be anybody here.

Regards Sibylle

Hi Sibylle, are you able to travel to Hobart? I don't know of anyone in the Huon who would be able to help. Dr Katrina Warren does consults at Tasmanian Animal Hospitals in Kingston.

Aidan

[Aidan]

I am wondering whether there would be anybody who could give me advise, as I have never had a vicious dog before?

Regards Sibylle

For the issue with the visiting cat, it would be much easier just to use management (crates, doors etc) as it is only a temporary situation.

If you cannot work with someone directly, then settle on a compromise. My suggestion would be to walk on-leash and avoid areas where other dogs play off-leash frequently (although you will need to be prepared for off-leash dogs just about anywhere).

You can use your clicker to teach calm behaviours around other dogs. You start off at some distance from another dog (preferably one who is under the control of someone who is aware of what you are doing and helping you). I like to start by teaching the dog that it is OK to look at other dogs without reacting, you simply click and treat when your dog is looking at the other dog and not growling/lunging/barking etc Use a very high rate of reinforcement (click/treat often, keep your hand loaded with small, soft treats).

I would also teach him a formal heel - look up at you and move with you. It doesn't need to be pretty, just functional. This is for when another dog gets too close and you want to move off without fuss.

As your dog gets very good at both looking at other dogs (on a loose leash) without reacting, and heeling around other dogs, you can start to move closer. It is very helpful if you are working with someone who has their dog under control and is working with you, because you can set your dog up to succeed by manipulating the distance between the dogs.

At this point I like to throw in other behaviours that will (a) be useful around other dogs and (b) keep the dog "thinking" instead of "reacting". Sit, down, stay and the recall are at the top of the list. I spend a lot of time working on recalls (on leash at first).

Remember to always set your dog up for success. If you aren't getting the behaviour you want, don't wave useless bits of meat around under your dog's nose, make it easier instead - get some distance, reduce the distractions, take a short break somewhere quiet, maybe come back later. Work in short, frequent sessions. When I do this with a class I have all the dogs in their cars and bring them out individually or in very small groups for 3-5 minutes at a time when it is their turn. Over an hour they will have 4-5 of these 3-5 minute sessions in total.

[sibylle]

Thanx for that.

Sibylle

Hi Staranais,

Thanx for that. I live in Southern Tasmania near Cygnet, 60 km from Hobart, but I don't think there would be anybody here.

Regards Sibylle

Hi Sibylle, are you able to travel to Hobart? I don't know of anyone in the Huon who would be able to help. Dr Katrina Warren does consults at Tasmanian Animal Hospitals in Kingston.

Aidan

[Nekhbet]

since when is Katrina Warren an animal behaviorist with aggression experience?

[Aidan]

since when is Katrina Warren an animal behaviorist with aggression experience?

Sorry, typo - I meant Dr Katrina Ward (not Warren!) who is a qualified veterinary behaviourist. I don't know how much experience she has with aggressive dogs but she does do consults in Kingston (which is not too far from Cygnet). I do have recognised experience with aggressive dogs, but I am on the Eastern Shore, probably a little too far to travel.

[Nekhbet]

I was about to say!

[sibylle]

Hello Aidan,

Thank you for your advise. I do most of things you suggest. My dog always wags when she sees other dogs, it is first after they have sniffed to each other that she wants to attack (suddenly - out of the blue). I would like to know if you are on the Eastern Shore of Hobart, how could I contact you? I cannot afford a bevourist just at the moment, but I will in the fulture. How much do you charge?

Regards Sibylle

I am wondering whether there would be anybody who could give me advise, as I have never had a vicious dog before?

Regards Sibylle

For the issue with the visiting cat, it would be much easier just to use management (crates, doors etc) as it is only a temporary situation.

If you cannot work with someone directly, then settle on a compromise. My suggestion would be to walk on-leash and avoid areas where other dogs play off-leash frequently (although you will need to be prepared for off-leash dogs just about anywhere).

You can use your clicker to teach calm behaviours around other dogs. You start off at some distance from another dog (preferably one who is under the control of someone who is aware of what you are doing and helping you). I like to start by teaching the dog that it is OK to look at other dogs without reacting, you simply click and treat when your dog is looking at the other dog and not growling/lunging/barking etc Use a very high rate of reinforcement (click/treat often, keep your hand loaded with small, soft treats).

I would also teach him a formal heel - look up at you and move with you. It doesn't need to be pretty, just functional. This is for when another dog gets too close and you want to move off without fuss.

As your dog gets very good at both looking at other dogs (on a loose leash) without reacting, and heeling around other dogs, you can start to move closer. It is very helpful if you are working with someone who has their dog under control and is working with you, because you can set your dog up to succeed by manipulating the distance between the dogs.

At this point I like to throw in other behaviours that will (a) be useful around other dogs and (b) keep the dog "thinking" instead of "reacting". Sit, down, stay and the recall are at the top of the list. I spend a lot of time working on recalls (on leash at first).

Remember to always set your dog up for success. If you aren't getting the behaviour you want, don't wave useless bits of meat around under your dog's nose, make it easier instead - get some distance, reduce the distractions, take a short break somewhere quiet, maybe come back later. Work in short, frequent sessions. When I do this with a class I have all the dogs in their cars and bring them out individually or in very small groups for 3-5 minutes at a time when it is their turn. Over an hour they will have 4-5 of these 3-5 minute sessions in total.

[Aidan]

Hello Aidan,

Thank you for your advise. I do most of things you suggest. My dog always wags when she sees other dogs, it is first after they have sniffed to each other that she wants to attack (suddenly - out of the blue). I would like to know if you are on the Eastern Shore of Hobart, how could I contact you? I cannot afford a bevourist just at the moment, but I will in the fulture. How much do you charge?

Regards Sibylle

Hi Sibylle, I think this is the sort of problem that is most frustrating for people, when the dog appears happy and then "suddenly" becomes aggressive. In reality, the signs are there a long time before the attack but can often be hard to spot. What I would probably do if you were to see me would be to put you into a small class where I have a mix of friendly and not so friendly dogs, then I would show you how to "shape" nice greetings on-leash that don't end in an attack. I would want to see your dog become comfortable meeting a range of dogs, and for your dog to learn that being polite works best.

I'm not sure where the forum moderators would draw the line on self-promotion, and I certainly haven't come here to drum up business (in fact I don't have any openings at the moment), so I will PM you if I can figure out how to do that. The small classes are inexpensive, but I won't have a spot until late September.