Elfin Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I have always had large dogs that have walked on a loose lead, wearing a flat collar. I have almost been quite "smug" about my beautifully behaved dogs and how they "Heeled" beautifully, like they came born with a Heel Function Button. Karma has bit me on the ar$e BIG TIME with our 7 month old pup. Her Button is broken; she will not heel. I have tried martingales, a correction chain (which has trimmed her coat all down the right side of her neck), and a nylon correction collar. My left arm is now 2 inches longer than my right arm and on-lead walks are no fun for me or her (or my other 2 dogs). Off-lead, she is wonderful. Good recall, good social skills. Put a lead on her, and it's like flying a kite. I am obviously doing something wrong. Is this something a little forum advice will assist with, or do I need to be trained one-on-one? If so, can someone recommend a trainer in Melbourne? Thank you in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) IMO "one-on-one" - even simply one lesson (although depending on your handling skills, two or three might be better) is the better option as whoever is advising you can check to see if the method is working and whether you are using the right tool for the dog; whether you are using it properly and whether your technique is effective (and if not, teach you a different technique that is). You've mentioned in your post the training tools you have tried, but you haven't mentioned the technique you have worked them with. :D .... Every dog is different, as you've obviously found out. So I don't think her "heel button is broken" (:D love the way you put that) but that you just haven't found a way of pushing it properly . And savour the fact that this dog is obviously setting you a challenge - that's a great way to learn heaps . Edited July 23, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfin Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 Hi Erny I have used the correction collars, all with a short "tug" of varying strength, accompanied by the command "Heel". She ignores it all, straining at the end of the lead, leaning away from me at a 45 degree angle. She nearly has me in tears as I try to stay calm and relaxed. :D I have also tried treats every 2-3 meters (then extending the distance between treats) at hip-height, but she very quickly bores of that. I have tried circling her around me, and also stopping completely until she is relaxed and then walking again... I need one-on-one, don't I?! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I need one-on-one, don't I?! :D Give Erny a call, Elfin. She'll sort you out :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfin Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 I need one-on-one, don't I?! :D Give Erny a call, Elfin. She'll sort you out Great idea, huski.. Erny, I have just had a look at your website and will call you about a lesson or two! :D Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Erny, I have just had a look at your website and will call you about a lesson or two! :D Wish you could finish off all the up-dates I still need to do to it, while you are there! :D Will look forward to speaking with you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buster_09 Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) What I have found that worked best for me is what I call the "Slingshot method". If the stand there like a tree and ignoring your dog until your dog looks at you doesn't work use the sling shot method. You don't need one on one training, if you have time posting letters on the internet surely you have time doing the research on what is the best way to walk your dog with a lead. Do you use treats while you lead walk? Go back to the basic, go for a short walk with treats and every time your dog looks at you give him a treat, if he starts looking at you every 2 second or so extend to every 3 second to give him a treat (and so on). If he shoots out to the front (starts’ leading) stand there like a tree until he looks at you or comes back to you then give him a treat, if he goes left go right or vice versa and if he starts lagging behind speed up. All this are done by just an eye contact (no commands). I will tell you what my daily walking program with Buster consist of, when I started walking him I normally use treats but now I don’t need to. To start off with I didn’t use any commands, eye contact is the key, dog’s needs to realise who is in charge (pack leader as they call it). I started off in my back/ front yard and when Buster got use to it we walked around the neighbourhood (extending the distance (not too far because his only a puppy still)). Also, started using commands and these are as follows: - heel, sit, left side, slow down, speed up, lets go and his praise is “good boy”. The only time I have a conversation with Buster is when he is in the sitting position on my left side about to cross the road. Let’s talk about my punishment with Buster. When Buster shoots out to the front, I slingshot him back to my left hand side, as I pull on the lead I use the command “heel” followed by “sit” (I give him sit when he is nicely hugging my left side to the direction of our advance), I stand there until he has realise what he has done wrong. I give him the command “let’s go” (when he looks at me) followed by “good boy”. A number of times I stood there for more than half an hour before we can start walking again, he just wouldn’t look at me. And now, I don’t have any hassle when we go for walks, the lead is always loose and he is always on my left (half arms interval). From time to time when Buster wants to play bite the blousing of my pants he gets close to me, what I do is I stand there like a tree and ignore him and when he starts bitting me and if he doesn’t stop I bark the “no” command and slingshot him back to my left side and wait until he sits down and looks at me (this is done by just ignoring him, no need to give him the “sit” command). There are so many articles on how to train a dog on the internet/ or books and don’t forget to surf this site (DOL forums), you need to find what suits best for you and your dog. What I don’t get is, so many of them have got a different ways of doing things. Mind you I am only new to this site and I have found that the search function is really annoying. Good Luck! Edited July 25, 2009 by Buster_09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 What I have found that worked best for me is what I call the "Slingshot method". If the stand there like a tree and ignoring your dog until your dog looks at you doesn't work use the sling shot method. You don't need one on one training, if you have time posting letters on the internet surely you have time doing the research on what is the best way to walk your dog with a lead. The thing is some people need the assistance that one on one training gives you. Not everyone finds reading the theory and putting it into practice easy or something that achieves results for themselves and their dog. Reading bits and pieces from the net can also be a lot of trial and error, whereas a trainer will be able to pin point where you are going wrong and what method will be right for you and your dog. The benefit of seeing a trainer is that you don't always know what it is you are doing wrong and a good trainer can give you instruction on how to get it right. It isn't about how much time someone has, it's about how capable they feel at handling their dog. That's not to say the info we find on net and in books is useless, I've always found it very helpful but nothing compares to the guidance you get from working one on one with a good trainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 What I don’t get is, so many of them have got a different ways of doing things. That's because different dogs have different temperaments and issues, so different methods will work better for them. Also, different owners and trainers are more comfortable using different methods. So having a wide range of methods available is a good thing, in my view, even if it seems a little confusing at times. There's just no "one size fits all" with dog training. I'm glad your method is working well for you, it sounds sensible. If it doesn't work for the OP though (and it seems like lots of other things she has tried haven't worked), then it's nice for her to have the option of seeing a professional like Erny to get a hand sorting things out. Seeing a good trainer can be a investment sometimes, it can save you time and frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Mine came broken too... I am pretty sure my boy chewed up his instruction manual and he didn't come with a remote control. Unfortunately his model is useless without the remote (no buttons can be found on the dog) - he seems to be set on fast forward ... and I can't find the slow or stop buttons. Can't even find where the batteries go so I can't remove them. And I am sure he needs oiling ... there is this awful squeak (sometimes it is a long whinge) that keeps coming out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 You don't need one on one training, if you have time posting letters on the internet surely you have time doing the research on what is the best way to walk your dog with a lead. That way of doing things doesn't work as well with animate beings as it does with INanimate objects Every dog is somewhat different- every person is as well- so there are an amazing variety of techniques and responses to be dealt with . One-on-One training is great, as trainer and handler can observe, discuss and practice The handler can practice with confidence, knowing someone experienced is there to offer physical/instructional and emotional support if needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) you need to find what suits best for you and your dog. What I don't get is, so many of them have got a different ways of doing things. Mind you I am only new to this site and I have found that the search function is really annoying. Good Luck! You just contridicted yourself. Yes there are many ways to train a dog because not all dogs learn the same way, just like in humans there are 3 main learning styles and then you can get combindations. One learning style is kinesthetic this is where the individual needs to learn hands on to learn the fastest and most effective way. With my own dogs and foster dogs I haven't been able to recycle the same methods, I've had to mix things up and find what is best for the individual dog. When posting in public forums you may find being less judgemental helps, I'm not sure whether you realised but you post came off a bit know it all and a tad rude to the original poster. Using paragraphs helps people too Edited July 26, 2009 by sas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miz J Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Hi, we have just started training our 5 month boxer at formal classes. We have been concentrating on his "manners" till now and have had to wait for a slot in this class. He is pretty good, he sits, drops, doesnt eat till told, the jumping is reducing and he doesnt mouth any more. Lead work was a nightmare. Our other adult boxer is fantastic to walk, we use a check chain on her. We tried a variety of things with her and this was the best. I know some people dont like them but it works for her. As Henry is only 5 months and a lean lad there is no way he is suitable for a check chain so soft collar has been his method till now. he pulled and pulled all through class and I was getting really annoyed with him He was fitted for a SENSE-ible harness at his first lesson and he is a different dog on lead. He walks beautifully strutting is stuff right next to me. This is a training tool only but I am impressed so far. Just shows that they are all different and what works for one may not work for the other. You dont know till you try. I agree with the comment regarding technique, I have had to examine how I wallk them and look to see if I was the cause. Going to be interesting walking the two of them now!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfin Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 What I have found that worked best for me is what I call the "Slingshot method". If the stand there like a tree and ignoring your dog until your dog looks at you doesn't work use the sling shot method. You don't need one on one training, if you have time posting letters on the internet surely you have time doing the research on what is the best way to walk your dog with a lead. Do you use treats while you lead walk? Go back to the basic, go for a short walk with treats and every time your dog looks at you give him a treat, if he starts looking at you every 2 second or so extend to every 3 second to give him a treat (and so on). If he shoots out to the front (starts’ leading) stand there like a tree until he looks at you or comes back to you then give him a treat, if he goes left go right or vice versa and if he starts lagging behind speed up. All this are done by just an eye contact (no commands). I will tell you what my daily walking program with Buster consist of, when I started walking him I normally use treats but now I don’t need to. To start off with I didn’t use any commands, eye contact is the key, dog’s needs to realise who is in charge (pack leader as they call it). I started off in my back/ front yard and when Buster got use to it we walked around the neighbourhood (extending the distance (not too far because his only a puppy still)). Also, started using commands and these are as follows: - heel, sit, left side, slow down, speed up, lets go and his praise is “good boy”. The only time I have a conversation with Buster is when he is in the sitting position on my left side about to cross the road. Let’s talk about my punishment with Buster. When Buster shoots out to the front, I slingshot him back to my left hand side, as I pull on the lead I use the command “heel” followed by “sit” (I give him sit when he is nicely hugging my left side to the direction of our advance), I stand there until he has realise what he has done wrong. I give him the command “let’s go” (when he looks at me) followed by “good boy”. A number of times I stood there for more than half an hour before we can start walking again, he just wouldn’t look at me. And now, I don’t have any hassle when we go for walks, the lead is always loose and he is always on my left (half arms interval). From time to time when Buster wants to play bite the blousing of my pants he gets close to me, what I do is I stand there like a tree and ignore him and when he starts bitting me and if he doesn’t stop I bark the “no” command and slingshot him back to my left side and wait until he sits down and looks at me (this is done by just ignoring him, no need to give him the “sit” command). There are so many articles on how to train a dog on the internet/ or books and don’t forget to surf this site (DOL forums), you need to find what suits best for you and your dog. What I don’t get is, so many of them have got a different ways of doing things. Mind you I am only new to this site and I have found that the search function is really annoying. Good Luck! It is not a question of time. Time is not an issue, nor was time never mentioned as a reason for my preferring one-on-one training. I am just one of those people that learn a lot better if I am shown how to do something, rather than read it off the net/watch a DVD/read a book. I am old fashioned and prefer human interaction rather than spending all my time with a computer. As part of my job, I teach, and I find students learn a lot better (and retain the information) if they are shown how to do something rather than just reading their text books. And if you read my second post, you will see I have tried your "Slingshot Method" of-sorts. I am so pleased it worked for Buster, but it didn't work for me. I look forward to working with Erny (in person!) to resolved my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) <SNIP> You don't need one on one training, if you have time posting letters on the internet surely you have time doing the research on what is the best way to walk your dog with a lead. <SNIP> wow, you know this how? it is good that your methods worked for you but your post comes across really badly almost arrogantly and definately "know it all". i have read many of Erny's replies and posts since i have been a member of DOL and i believe anyone would get something out of a session with her. to the OP, good luck with your one on one training, like you i prefer to talk to a human one on one to learn, especially if i can't manage to do something that i could with other dogs. Edited July 26, 2009 by Jaxx'sBuddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all that glitters Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 If Shyla doesn't improve on loose leash walking I'm gonna have a few one on one classes, seeing a dog and handler in person can help a trainer assess and give you tips that apply to you and your dog and exactly what is happening I guess. Shyla heels great at times, but sometimes she enters what I call 'steamtrain' mode where she pulls and pulls and will not look or listen to me. I usually stand still until she settles, and get her to do some sits and drops and that usually helps. Will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ams Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Mine came broken too... I am pretty sure my boy chewed up his instruction manual and he didn't come with a remote control. Unfortunately his model is useless without the remote (no buttons can be found on the dog) - he seems to be set on fast forward ... and I can't find the slow or stop buttons. Can't even find where the batteries go so I can't remove them. And I am sure he needs oiling ... there is this awful squeak (sometimes it is a long whinge) that keeps coming out of him. Tilly you can't have broken him in the last week... he was okay when I last saw him. Did u dip him in the fishpond again? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I look forward to working with Erny (in person!) to resolved my problem. Hi Elfin. Ditto here . Call me when you're ready. Cheers! Erny (Pro-K9) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfin Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 I look forward to working with Erny (in person!) to resolved my problem. Hi Elfin. Ditto here ;). Call me when you're ready. Cheers! Erny (Pro-K9) I have been working till late all this week, and don't want to call you this time of night! Can I organise a lesson by PM?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I have been working till late all this week, and don't want to call you this time of night! Can I organise a lesson by PM?! It's ok. Because my other PC threw a hissy, I was concerned that perhaps you had tried to reach me by email - there was a short interval where everything was 'down' and not sure that all emails in that period made it through. Responded to your PM . Talk to you soon :D. Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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