Samoyed

[Icemist]

I don't think it was well said at all... I am so frightened that you are happily announcing that a Samoyed can have 100% recall.

NO dog has 100% recall. YES Samoyeds are smart and have titles over many fields including obedience, herding, agility and tracking but as a general day to day living it is so foolish to announce on an open forum for those wanting information on the breed to suggest that they have 100% recall.

Please read my post http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...188435&hl=# where I nearly lost Fletcher who I thought had spot-on recall, yes i thought he had 100% recall and luckily i didn't have to learn the hard way. I had a very, very close call and one close enough for me to try to educate those I come across that think that any dog has it.

I also work at a busy vet clinic and see it every week. Well trained dogs, obdience titled dogs, stupid, naive owners who think their dog has 100% recall. Dogs being brought in screaming, bleeding, eyes out of their heads, necks snapped, bleeding internally, massive hernias, crushed half way down their bodies down. The owners SO regretful, SO painful, knowing full well that they were COMPLETELY TO BLAME. Your dogs life is in your hands.

I am not at all suggesting a Samoyed can't be trained for obedience/agility/tracking etc titles- Fletcher excels at obedience and will be trialling for CD title in the somewhat near future. He is brilliant in training, he knows exactly what I want of him - he has his days, and is sometimes stubborn, a characteristic of this breed which would be stupid to deny to possible future owners of the breed!! (do we want people handing dogs back to breeders or sending them off to pounds because the dog wasn't always 100% obedient and they were told it would be?) It is part of what makes this breed so interesting and such an exciting challenge.

BUT when it comes to a rabbit, or a cat across the road, instincts kick it. This breed was used for herding and was used for hunting and you know this breed is a natural breed, practically untouched and those original instincts will show up from time to time.

If you don't believe that, then perhaps you may not have experienced this kind of situation because of the fact that you are very experienced in dog training yourself, and had the mentor of your experienced father to guide you... but do you tell your average puppy buyers that Samoyeds have 100% recall? If so, you are a fool and you are taking a ridiculously huge risk for the future of the puppies you have bred. Be thankful nothing serious has happened yet but open your eyes and look at what you're actually saying to people.

Please read my post mentioned above and maybe you'll understand. This is how i finished my post that day, I wrote this just after the event:

My dog lived today. My dog lived to remind me who i am, his carer, his everything. It is my responsibility to make sure he is safe. I failed today and i came way too close to losing my best friend. I'm still shaking, and i'm finally having the chance to let it go and cry. Please, don't ever think you have 100% recall, learn from my mistake before it's too late. After tonight.. i will not believe that it is possible. In the end, he's a dog.. and why wouldn't he want to chase a rabbit?

Be frightened, be very frightened.

My Mishka has NEVER EVER broken from a command from a recall. She is that well trained, whether rabbits, cats or what ever is there, she will come 100% of the time, yes 100% of the time. She will even drop on a dime with one command.

That’s 100%. You can QUOTE me on that, both you a Kellie!

Her daughter does the same. NEVER broken a recall, out or inside a ring. She’s 100%.

I have never ever had a dog that has broken a recall command.

I trust all my dogs 100%, on or off lead. AND PROUD OF IT

So yes, I happily announce that you with your expert knowledge on the matter with your one dog that you can't train a dog properly.

You train a dog properly right from the start, you will not have a problem. But since you have been around all for 2 minutes, and are a fountain of knowledge and you have been around forever and know exactly what you are talking about!

I really do applaud you.

[Bindii]

So yes, I happily announce that you with your expert knowledge on the matter with your one dog that you can't train a dog properly.

You train a dog properly right from the start, you will not have a problem. But since you have been around all for 2 minutes, and are a fountain of knowledge and you have been around forever and know exactly what you are talking about!

I really do applaud you.

You're looking awfully rude, immature and disrespectful, Icemist. I am so glad the Samoyed breeders and exhibitors in my state have been nothing but supportive and I respect them even more at this very moment.

You know I back up everything I say with the fact that I am new and that I am aware of that.

And it is the new factor (of myself, and others reading this forum because that can be ANYONE getting a pet samoyed) that scares me about what you are saying! It is years of knowledge that has allowed you to train your Samoyeds this way!

How can you completely ignore what I see on a weekly basis of people that sound just like you? That cry about the fact that they thought their dog has 100% recall (even when there are cats around) while they hang over their dead dog on the floor of the clinic? Perhaps it effects me more because I have to put their dogs in a black plastic bag and put in the freezer to go off for burial or cremation after the owners leave? or I have to look after the dying dog with crushed insides in a cage, watching it suffer, struggling to survive, when owners don't want to let go? I may not have long term experience with Samoyeds - but i have seen enough dogs hit by cars to know not to take that risk, and to warn others of the risk.

Wake up, Icemist. You have the knowledge BECAUSE of the experience and years that you have. I don't and my dog was nearly hit by a car because i believed he was under effective control. Since then, every Samoyed person (except for you) has said it was a risk! I wish I'd been warned before... So this is my warning to other newbies just like me!!

Edited May 3, 2010 by Bindii

[Kelza]

I think everyone needs to stop taking it personally and remember this forum is not about one dog, or a breeder, but rather our beautiful breed that we all love!

Icemist, I acknowledge your experience with obedience and am aware of your achievements. I am glad you have 100% recall, but my point was about pet owners and new owners that don't have the years experience in training Samoyeds. You said a young Samoyed can have 100% recall, this is somthing I don't agree with as I don't think any new owner would be able to achieve this, you however might be able to do this but you are an obedience trainer and have been for years. This is something we can agree to disagree regarding new owners.

I am the first to encourage new people to get involved, ask questions and have opinions... It keeps them wanting to learn and interested in our wonderful breed. Without new people, our clubs and breeds wouldn't survive, the Sam ACT club folded and the QLD is at breaking point as there aren't new people wanting to get involved, so lets please encourage the ones that are. Bindi is new and I certainitly don't always agree with her opinions but by sharing, knowledge opinions and ideas are the only way people are going to expand their knowledge. In saying this I know Bindi speaks to many breeders and owners in Australia and overseas so even though she has only been in the breed a year she is doing her research and not taking one persons opinion as gospel. Bindi is a vet nurse who has seen many dogs hit by cars that could have been prevented. I think we need to remember to keep it about the topic and don't have personal attacks.

WS:And I will say for the record unless a pet owner is willing to put a huge, and I really mean huge, (years even), amount of training into a Samoyed, I would never recomend the dog is proofed enough to believe the recall is 100%.

We are talking about a breed here that has been bred for thousnads of years to have a mind of its own, to think for itself and many owners are not willing, able or even bothered to put that kind of training into a dog, thats fine, dont let it off lead unless the area is 100% safe.

Wolfsong I agree with you completely, and I should of been more clear in my original post (I was at work and in a rush when posting)

Icemist: You have grown up in the breed like I have and we have seen many people come and go, it is important to keep the knowledge flowing, different opinions make interesting reading and gets people thinking and challenges them to do their own research and ask their breeders questions. Hopefully you will keep posting, having constructive discussions and challenging me...

We love our breed, lets remember to smile like they do

Edited May 3, 2010 by Kelza

[Bjelkier]

We love our breed, lets remember to smile like they do

I agree

[Kelza]

We love our breed, lets remember to smile like they do

I agree

Our dogs teach us a lot and we love them so much for it

Wolfsong I found the question you posted and responses you gained interesting, and think anyone interested should read so they can gain a better understanding of recalls, I know I learnt a thing or two

Anyone interested the pathway is

Dogz Online Forums >

Discussion Forums >

Training / Obedience / Dog Sports >

100% Recall, Is it possible?

I particularly liked the following posts:

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?s=&showtopic=195084&view=findpost&p=4506219

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?s=&showtopic=195084&view=findpost&p=4506337

even though this is talking about another breed I believe it gives some great advice

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?s=&showtopic=195084&view=findpost&p=4506830

I encourage everyone to read, because even though it isn't a Samoyed forum it is about dogs in general.

Have a great day

Edited May 4, 2010 by Kelza

[Snerzok]

May I put my oar in here. And before I start in on this list just a warning I do bite back so if you decide to take a dig you've been warned.

As a breeder with a few years under my belt, and as a person who has trained one or two dogs to obedience titles and as a past instructor and life member of an obedience club I do have a little experience. From what I can make out (and I'm not going to wade back through all the dross posted to find the pearls) The question was can Samoyed's be 100% on a recall. Well I'll have a bob each way here and say yes, give the correct training a Samoyed (any dog) will be 100% on a recall be it in a ring, training environment or just out walking. However if you ask should I assume that my dog will come back to me 100% then I'd say no. Never assume. That is why I ALWAYS stress to new puppy owners and people I'm instructing that unless you are in a fully fenced area or a safe off lead area don't let your dog off of the lead.

Also I'd say and I think Rob would agree that the other thing that should be taught with the recall is the drop on recall, it's all well and good to have a dog that will come back to you at a hundred miles an hour but you want to be able to stop the dog should you need to (suppose your dog is heading back to you and you see a trail bike intersecting your dog) the best and fastest way to stop a dog on the recall is to teach it to drop.

I suppose what I'm saying is you can't take one part of obedience and make sweeping statements. Obedience is an holistic pursuit, if you haven't laid the foundations i.e. healing, sit, drop, stand, etc then you're building on shaky foundations it's about you trusting your dog and your dog trusting you, as much as it's about anything. If you were to ask can you teach a Samoyed to be 100% on a recall without teaching it anything else ten I'd have to say no.

That's my couple of cents worth

[Bjelkier]

May I put my oar in here. And before I start in on this list just a warning I do bite back so if you decide to take a dig you've been warned.

As a breeder with a few years under my belt, and as a person who has trained one or two dogs to obedience titles and as a past instructor and life member of an obedience club I do have a little experience. From what I can make out (and I'm not going to wade back through all the dross posted to find the pearls) The question was can Samoyed's be 100% on a recall. Well I'll have a bob each way here and say yes, give the correct training a Samoyed (any dog) will be 100% on a recall be it in a ring, training environment or just out walking. However if you ask should I assume that my dog will come back to me 100% then I'd say no. Never assume. That is why I ALWAYS stress to new puppy owners and people I'm instructing that unless you are in a fully fenced area or a safe off lead area don't let your dog off of the lead.

Also I'd say and I think Rob would agree that the other thing that should be taught with the recall is the drop on recall, it's all well and good to have a dog that will come back to you at a hundred miles an hour but you want to be able to stop the dog should you need to (suppose your dog is heading back to you and you see a trail bike intersecting your dog) the best and fastest way to stop a dog on the recall is to teach it to drop.

I suppose what I'm saying is you can't take one part of obedience and make sweeping statements. Obedience is an holistic pursuit, if you haven't laid the foundations i.e. healing, sit, drop, stand, etc then you're building on shaky foundations it's about you trusting your dog and your dog trusting you, as much as it's about anything. If you were to ask can you teach a Samoyed to be 100% on a recall without teaching it anything else ten I'd have to say no.

That's my couple of cents worth

Thats a very good point Snerzok and one I agree with totally.

[Kelza]

May I put my oar in here. And before I start in on this list just a warning I do bite back so if you decide to take a dig you've been warned.

As a breeder with a few years under my belt, and as a person who has trained one or two dogs to obedience titles and as a past instructor and life member of an obedience club I do have a little experience. From what I can make out (and I'm not going to wade back through all the dross posted to find the pearls) The question was can Samoyed's be 100% on a recall. Well I'll have a bob each way here and say yes, give the correct training a Samoyed (any dog) will be 100% on a recall be it in a ring, training environment or just out walking. However if you ask should I assume that my dog will come back to me 100% then I'd say no. Never assume. That is why I ALWAYS stress to new puppy owners and people I'm instructing that unless you are in a fully fenced area or a safe off lead area don't let your dog off of the lead.

Also I'd say and I think Rob would agree that the other thing that should be taught with the recall is the drop on recall, it's all well and good to have a dog that will come back to you at a hundred miles an hour but you want to be able to stop the dog should you need to (suppose your dog is heading back to you and you see a trail bike intersecting your dog) the best and fastest way to stop a dog on the recall is to teach it to drop.

I suppose what I'm saying is you can't take one part of obedience and make sweeping statements. Obedience is an holistic pursuit, if you haven't laid the foundations i.e. healing, sit, drop, stand, etc then you're building on shaky foundations it's about you trusting your dog and your dog trusting you, as much as it's about anything. If you were to ask can you teach a Samoyed to be 100% on a recall without teaching it anything else ten I'd have to say no.

That's my couple of cents worth

Thank you Snerzok for your words of wisdom, always good to have another point of view

Never assume. That is why I ALWAYS stress to new puppy owners and people I'm instructing that unless you are in a fully fenced area or a safe off lead area don't let your dog off of the lead.

completely agree

I like the advice also regard the recall and drop command. I am sure people will benefit from knowing that... Thank you for sharing

(hope to see you here more :cool:

Edited May 4, 2010 by Kelza

[Bindii]

Thanks for posting, John.

The original question was

I've heard a few people mention that they are rather independent, but what is their recalls like? I know that a great recall is a byproduct of great training but there are definately some breeds out there who are much better at it than others.

To this, I told of my story with Fletcher who had, until the day he ran across the road, what I felt was 100% recall. I didn't really answer the question in regards to Samoyeds in comparison to other breeds. I really just wanted to stress of the unpredictability of dogs for the average owner (as we still have no idea the reason this poster asked the question/if they are experienced trainers etc etc) I then proceeded to say that I didn't believe any dog, of any breed, can have 100% recall but feel you said it best with what you said about "assuming."

if you ask should I assume that my dog will come back to me 100% then I'd say no. Never assume. That is why I ALWAYS stress to new puppy owners and people I'm instructing that unless you are in a fully fenced area or a safe off lead area don't let your dog off of the lead.

Essentially that is what I was saying, but unfortunately it was taken in the wrong way (i think?)

Thanks for your advice on the drop on command with a recall, it certainly makes sense.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Bindii

[ruski18]

hey guys, i know it should be in the grooming forum but since i want to aim it at sammie owners im posting it here.

i need to buy a dryer and am stuck which one to buy. i didnt know anything about untill reading in forums that moat ppl have 2 dryers one for normal drying and the other for getting them fluffy etc.

im just after a high powered one preferably one on a stand.

if you could let me know what you guys are using would be much appreciated

thanks

[Bindii]

hey guys, i know it should be in the grooming forum but since i want to aim it at sammie owners im posting it here.

i need to buy a dryer and am stuck which one to buy. i didnt know anything about untill reading in forums that moat ppl have 2 dryers one for normal drying and the other for getting them fluffy etc.

im just after a high powered one preferably one on a stand.

if you could let me know what you guys are using would be much appreciated

thanks

Hi Ruski,

I just have one dryer, it's often sold (new) on ebay but can also be ordered through other websites and no doubt pet stores/grooming salons - but it's cheapest on Ebay. It has an optional "on/off" heater (i usually have it 'off' except at the start if its very cold) and variable 'blowing' speed (so gentler around the ears etc)

I've had this one for 8 months (I'm new to showing/samoyed owning!) use it weekly before shows and it's little enough for us to take away when we go away for showing and it is obviously used more frequently then for friends dogs and especially when its a wet weekend (or if they have grubby puppies!!)

It hasn't let me down! You can also get stands for them (most ebay sellers have them as an optional extra) but i prefer it without, just personal preference!

It's super super powerful, as powerful or more so than all other dryers i've seen. (most effective I find with the skinniest nozel of the three that you're given)

One thing i noticed is how it doesn't overheat (when heat switch is off) I have used dryers in the past (at a friends salon and at 'do it yourself' type of places) and they overheat very quickly which as i think Wolfsong pointed out a few pages ago can ruin a dog's coat. This dryer's air stays quite cool unless you have the heat switch 'on' it can then get quite hot, so I leave it off most of the time.

Highly recommend!! Aeolus h-901 <-- example of one on ebay.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Bindii

[Bjelkier]

I am using a Liberty Ultra Force on my fluffy monsters and it is amazing.

The amount of time I need to get them dry is so short and it fluffs them up beautifully. Its amazing what a good dryer does.

The awesome thing about this dryer is that you can easily get it fixed if it breaks down.

Not sure about stands, I think you can get them but you would have to check.

Mine is very light so I see no reason to get a stand, the hose is long enough that I can easily get around the dog without moving it too.

Prolonged heat is bad for the coat, it will make it go yellow and dry out in the most awful way, believe me I've seen it and it takes a very long time to get rid off.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Wolfsong

[ruski18]

thanks for your relies, i have been told about the force 2 from pupkus and it is also fairly well priced. has any one used or know about that particular dryer?

i have seen many aelous dryers on ebay but not too keen with the cost in freight to get one to me.

the liberty is the only one i have used so far and it takes over 2hours to dry my sammie (probably because it is fairly old) and i think they have a little less power than the aelous and pupkus ones.

its annoying me how i just cant decide which one to get. i want to try them all out

[Bjelkier]

thanks for your relies, i have been told about the force 2 from pupkus and it is also fairly well priced. has any one used or know about that particular dryer?

i have seen many aelous dryers on ebay but not too keen with the cost in freight to get one to me.

the liberty is the only one i have used so far and it takes over 2hours to dry my sammie (probably because it is fairly old) and i think they have a little less power than the aelous and pupkus ones.

its annoying me how i just cant decide which one to get. i want to try them all out

Wow two hours!

I can get both of mine done in about 40 mins and one of those is a full coated male!

[SnoPaws]

I am using a Liberty Ultra Force on my fluffy monsters and it is amazing.

The amount of time I need to get them dry is so short and it fluffs them up beautifully. Its amazing what a good dryer does.

The awesome thing about this dryer is that you can easily get it fixed if it breaks down.

Not sure about stands, I think you can get them but you would have to check.

Mine is very light so I see no reason to get a stand, the hose is long enough that I can easily get around the dog without moving it too.

Prolonged heat is bad for the coat, it will make it go yellow and dry out in the most awful way, believe me I've seen it and it takes a very long time to get rid off.

I'm starting to think that this is problem with Bundy's coat , maybe I need to get a new dryer

[Bjelkier]

I am using a Liberty Ultra Force on my fluffy monsters and it is amazing.

The amount of time I need to get them dry is so short and it fluffs them up beautifully. Its amazing what a good dryer does.

The awesome thing about this dryer is that you can easily get it fixed if it breaks down.

Not sure about stands, I think you can get them but you would have to check.

Mine is very light so I see no reason to get a stand, the hose is long enough that I can easily get around the dog without moving it too.

Prolonged heat is bad for the coat, it will make it go yellow and dry out in the most awful way, believe me I've seen it and it takes a very long time to get rid off.

I'm starting to think that this is problem with Bundy's coat , maybe I need to get a new dryer

It may help.

Also it might have something to do with the shampoo you are using.

Mistral has a few yellow spots and certain shampoos make them so obvious!

Here is the link to the dryer I have

http://www.libertyinternational.com.au/dryers.html

Edited May 12, 2010 by Wolfsong

[nynka]

Don't forget those of you who feel you are experiencing different levels of power on your dryer compared to others with the same dryer, they need to be serviced and if you are noticing a drop in power, a service and some new brushes will see it come back to the origial blasting power it had as new. It will also extend the life of your dryer. Service it before it "dies" completely and you will be amazed that it will keep going and going.

[nynka]

I'd much rather have a dryer with a longer hose than a stand.

[Kelza]

I'd much rather have a dryer with a longer hose than a stand.

I completely agree with you Nynka. I think it is much easier & quicker to dry the dogs with a long hose. I have 2 dryers and will always choose my long hose dryer, better for me and my dogs :rolleyes:

[dodger39]

Hi all, I'm a newbie to DOL and at the moment working my way through the different forums/topics. Wolfsong, thanks for your comment on my intro post.

Have a Sammi which I got from the pound when she was about a year old (she's now about eleven). No idea as to her parentage. Obviously she's not a show dog, in fact never been into showing, obediance trials was my thing when I was a bit younger. Also have a crazy Kelpie who's 10 years old.

Found this site while looking for info on some medication the vet has put Ladybug (the Sammi) on. Must say there's heaps of info here that I could have benefitted from when I first got Ladybug.

As far as grooming goes, she always get's her baths done at the grooming salon. Brushing and combing I do myself, initially it was all trial and error but after a whike when I had the right brushes etc it was a breeze.

OK, that's enough waffling from me for now. Certainly nice to know the informations around to help people out.