Feeding

[Whisper]

whilst i try to feed my puppy he is constantly jumping around me whilst i have the bowl in my hand. i get him to lay on is bed with the command "on your bed". he will either sit or lay which i am happy with but unless my fiance is outside he will not stay there on his bed he does for him though. i am very forceful with him as he is a big puppy and i want the rules set before adult hood. after about ten minutes he will eventually listen after he realises he can't have the food to he sits and responds to my commands. sometimes he responds immediately and i reward him but most of the time no especially if there is distratctions ie the kitten coming outside he will go to play.

one problem with the kitten also is if it goes near pups bowl he attacks the cat, he has come really close to biting it but never has he got smacked and bed time for this behaviour.

Any ideas on how to get pup to do as is told and realise he has to share he isn't the top dog would be greatly appreciated.

thanks whisper.

[Guest Shadowboxer]

How old is your puppy?

What breed is he?

What exactly do you mean when you say "I am very forceful with him"?

What do you do when he tells off the cat for approaching his bowl?

[Whisper]

he is 18 weeks old i have had him for three to four weeks.

we are told by the previous owners he is a lab x border collie but my opinion and the vets is he is a german shephard x.

i am forceful with him by adjusting the tone of my voice, i grab his collar and put him on his bed whilst saying on your bed, i stand infron of him to stop him getting off of the bed, i keep the cat inside to limit distractions but i want him to do as he is told with distractions, if he is too naughty totally not listening he gets yelled at so to speak with a stern voice.

the first time he told off of the cat he got belted the cat got picked upand we made the pup get on his bed then let the cat go to the dogs bowl and eat some food whislt we told the dog off. same the second time.

[Dogsfevr]

You belted the dog

You have had this dog for no more than 4 weeks & you expect miracles.

When the dog goes to the cat bowel do you belt the cat if it reacts ???or hold the cat back so the dog can eat its food?

Why not just feed the dog in a safe room & make it sit for its dinner until commanded to eat,forceful doesnt mean yelling,shouting or given it a belten,respect is earnt by controlled calm commands & time

[Whisper]

don't growl at me. a little slap never hurt anyone it isn't enough to hurt him and i am not expecting miracles. the cat is fed indoors and the dog outdoors. the cat doesn't react to the dog eating its food so we let the dog within reason. if the cat is not reacting we do not expect teh dog to react. we are looking at getting another puppy when we move to our property on the beach and i don't want my pup now (wolf) to attack it if it goes to his food bowl, he is already the same size as what my boxer was when she was fully grown he is a big puppy.

we have been trying to get the dog to sit on its bed and then when it is it is allowed to eat on command we are having toruble getting it to sit on it's bed when it sees the food it jumps all over me it had drawn blood from scratches and biting me to get to the food bowl when it is standing up and jumping on its hind legs it is taller than i am.

i wish to teach him i am the omega top dog not him he is under me at teh moment he is throwing his weight around with me (he is my dog) but he listens to my fiance. in training he listens to me just not at home. he doens't listen to fiance when we are out though.

i also never said i shoulted at teh dog i said figuratively speaking a slight raise in voice is not considered yelling or shouting.

[aus_k9gsd]

Hi Whisper

Have you done any basic obedience with your puppy yet?? I have a young boisterous German Shepherd so i know exactly what they can be like at feed time.

I taught my pup to sit then rewarded him with food, then when i made him sit i would extend the time before giving him the reward so he knew he had to sit and wait for the treat, it didn't take long they are smart dogs and know what to do to get there food reward, then i did the same with the bowl of food, i would make him sit and would not put the food down until he did no matter how long it took he knew he would not get the bowl until he sits, just ignore the jumping and carry on and only put the food down when he is sitting, if you go to put the bowl down and he gets up, just hold to bowl up again until he does what you want.

As for the cat, to keep the peace why don't you lock the cat inside while the dog is eating, my dogs will allow me to take there food and go up to them but i feed them a few metres apart and neither of them will tolerate the other coming near there food and they respect that and won't even try even when my younger dog is finished first he will wait until the older dog is finished then explore the bowl or grass for any left overs.

Good luck with your puppy

[Whisper]

thanks i have done basic obedience trainaing but not with a dog school. he does understand that to get teh reward he has to do as is asked. i can take the food from under his nose as well i can touch teh food move him away he is fine just doesn't tolerate teh cat. i can keep the cat inside just have to learn more patience i guess

[Staff'n'Toller]

Everytime you give your puppy 'a little slap', you are breaking the trust he has in you.

Food guarding is very natural behaviour, he does not know when his next meal is coming so it is only natural that he would want to protect it.

Cats eat many times during the day, their food is always there, they don't value it as highly as dogs do.

Your puppy is way too young to expect him to sit on his bed waiting for food for any longer that about 10 seconds, you are expecting way too much.

Also you are sending him to bed for punishment- so you are making double meanings out of things.

Raising your voice tone will do nothing to increase the respect he has for you, you need to learn how he thinks about things before you can expect to change his behaviour.

You need to find a qualified positive trainer in your area, and go and learn how to communicate with him effectively.

If you want some contacts, PM me.

Mel.

[PAX]

Dear whisper,

I think you are expecting to much. I would have the dog outside while you prepare his dinner and just ask for him to sit as you give him the dinner, he is just a kid remember. If a young large breed puppy shared with a cat, i think this would be very very unusual. He sounds like he is very hungry (is he getting enough) which is how a healthy pup should be at dinner time. I have three large breed dogs and there is no way they would share their meals which is just the way i like it because whatever is in the bowls gets eaten. I seperate them at meal time, it takes them less then three minutes to eat then i collect the bowls and let them out.........too easy and i know exactly what has been consumed. Good luck

[PAX]

Dear whisper,

sorry this is an after thought. If you had a human toddler would you put a bowl of m&ms on the floor and expect the toddler not to touch them when it says another eating them? I think this is what you are asking your dog to do. When it is much older and had lots of good training you could teach it not to eat the cats food but not yet.

[Fin]

If you want your dog to view you as the top dog then try using the long down exercise. It'll allow you to achieve this without the use of emotive voices and body language or physical means such as a light slap.

For a better explanation have a look through the page at this link

http://www.volhard.com/general/artbywv.htm

and look for the article on long down.

It's pretty hard to train ourselves out of using physical punishment, it's kind of a natural reaction when the dog has done something wrong. It's what is ingrained into us from a young age...do something wrong and you'll get a slap on the wrist etc. Just think of the future however, the last thing you want is a dog that is fearful and in the worst cases a fear biter.

[Guest Shadowboxer]

In my opinion you are setting up your dog to become hand-shy; possibly cat-aggressive; nervous; and confused. This is just a baby! You are expecting far too much far too soon. Do not 'tease' your pup with the food bowl. Jumping around when he knows food is coming is very natural. Prepare his food. Leave the bowl on the counter, do not hold or wave it around over his head. Ask for a sit and, when he does it, give the food immediately. Keep the cat well away from the dog while he is eating. Do not "grab" his collar and do not physically punish him for anything. In order to train your pup he must have complete confidence in you as a fair and just leader. Slapping & grabbing will undermine his confidence in you as a person to be respected. Instead of respect you will have fear.

His bed should be a place of comfort and security - not somewhere that is associated with punishment.

I would strongly recommend that you go to a good training school where you will be shown the best methods of handling and training your dog.

[Tapferhund]

Whisper,

You are expecting WAY TO MUCH from this puppy.

It is so easy to train a puppy to sit and wait while you put the bowl down BUT IT TAKES TIME AND PATIENCE.

You are expecting miracles in wanting absolute obedience now, and this shows how ignorant you are about dogs and their training

You should never hit a baby, how do expect the pup to learn while your belting it, the only thing it will learn, is to not trust you or like you.

Another thing too, keep the cat and its food away from the pup at feed times.

The way I teach my pups to sit and wait is to have the bowl on the table,hold onto the puppys collar with one hand and then place the bowl on the floor with the other hand. Immediately and GENTLY place the pup into the sit position with your hand down low near the tail and say 'sit'. Say 'wait' and then IMMEDIATELY release the pup saying 'OK', to eat his dinner.

This could take you a couple of weeks of consistant training then when the pup has the idea of sitting and waiting, I then do not hold the pup but hold his tea above his head saying 'sit' and then 'wait' , then I try to put the bowl down constantly repeating sit and wait. If the pup gets up I raise the bowl up and repeat the process. You should find it will not take long before the pup realises if he sits and stays the bowl will be put down.

As soon as the bowl is on the floor RELEASE the pup IMMEDIATELY to eat his dinner.

Be consistant and fair in your training and over the next few weeks,increase the time by seconds only before you tell him 'OK' to eat his dinner.

I strongly recommend you go to an obedience club or trainer to learn about your dog and the correct methods of training.

[Rozzie]

I'd like to see a pic of your big puppy please.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: try looking at this article on the The TRIANGLE of Temptation.

[soniq]

Whisper:

One thing we did with Bayley (now 1 year old Amstaff) was make him sit then quickly give him his dinner while he was doing the right thing. Then we gradually extended the time. I think it is important to try to catch your dog exhibiting the behaviour you want then rewarding quickly. You can then slowly extend the time.

[Whisper]

is it generally the aura of the forum's to admonish and growl at a question??

I have just moved to the beach new computer i haven't got pic's on here to post sorry Rozzie.

i working in a vet do know how to control my animals and am not ignorant in their training. since i wrote the first letter on here my pup sits and stays, he waits to command is given to eat, the other puppy and the kitten can now eat out of his bowl and he is less likely to attack them and i never read any of this advice.

i have trained him to mat, so when his food is coming out he sits and or lays on his mat and waits as does he if he comes in the house, sitting on the mat only.

i thank you all for the imput but do appreciate being growled at. i have never taken any of my dogs to dog school only trainig them myself and the always are obedient well trained dogs.

And as for this emoticon :rolleyes: those who ues should consider others feelings first, all i did was ask for advice, i did not ask to be punished for asking a question Think about it!!

Whisper.

[Guest Reeda]

My concern is the fact that the dog was punished for guarding his food from the cat. By making your dog sit and watch the cat eat his food, you are likely to make him more aggressive next time the cat comes past. Why? because last time he wasn't strong enough to guard his food and the cat got to eat it.

If it is a Lab x, there is a definate food drive that is highly evident in this breed. They will do anything for food. Please make the feeding experience a positive one as you may have major problems when he is older!!

A lot of the posts before me have said what I would have suggested as far as feeding goes. You are expecting too much. Make him sit and raise the bowl if he moves forward. He only gets fed when his bum is on the ground.

It is a very trying time with a puppy, one that I had forgotten until about 6 months ago :rolleyes:. I know it can be VERY frustrating ant trying. My advice is to hold off with the physical reprimands, because you do not want to have to do that for the rest of your dogs life!! Learn other ways to train and you will bring out the best in your dog!!

Hard work does pay off. My pup is getting there with allhis little behaviour problems, but it definately takes time - lots of time.

(when you feel like hitting your dog, go away and hit a pillow it sure takes away some of the stress!!)

Hope this has helped. Please do not be offended by what we are suggesting to you. Most comes from experience and learning from our own mistakes.

[Guest Tess32]

don't growl at me. a little slap never hurt anyone it isn't enough to hurt him and i am not expecting miracles. the cat is fed indoors and the dog outdoors. the cat doesn't react to the dog eating its food so we let the dog within reason. if the cat is not reacting we do not expect teh dog to react. we are looking at getting another puppy when we move to our property on the beach and i don't want my pup now (wolf) to attack it if it goes to his food bowl, he is already the same size as what my boxer was when she was fully grown he is a big puppy.

we have been trying to get the dog to sit on its bed and then when it is it is allowed to eat on command we are having toruble getting it to sit on it's bed when it sees the food it jumps all over me it had drawn blood from scratches and biting me to get to the food bowl when it is standing up and jumping on its hind legs it is taller than i am.

i wish to teach him i am the omega top dog not him he is under me at teh moment he is throwing his weight around with me (he is my dog) but he listens to my fiance. in training he listens to me just not at home. he doens't listen to fiance when we are out though.

i also never said i shoulted at teh dog i said figuratively speaking a slight raise in voice is not considered yelling or shouting.

Whisper, why would the dog WANT to sit on its bed if you create such negative associations with it? My dog learnt in a week or so to go to his bed and drop, and I NEVER ONCE touched him or made him do it. If you force him, it will make him defensive, it could *encourage* aggressive behaviour. Dogs will do what they get rewarded for, and they won't be doing it out of fear aggression.

What it comes down to is this - if he is not doing what you want, it's your fault. You are the trainer and you haven't trained him properly. If you can't make him do something without force, you are being a weak trainer.

Once you get passed that, start over. Get yourself a clicker or if not, food. Throw some treats on the bed so it becomes a positive place, and when he walks on to it, click and treat. Once he's doing that reliably, start adding a verbal cue "on your bed". When he starts walking on it, tell him to sit, and *then* click and treat. Make the time longer, only treating for 10 second, 20 second etc. Then start making him drop as well, increasing the time gradually.

You're expecting too much, training isn't fast and he won't understand or learn by being forced onto a bed.

Nat

[pgm]

whisper,

you are getting growled at because you are using physical corrections on your dog. Ignore the growling and check out K9 Force. The triangle of temptation is an excellent method.

pgm