midnightmint Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) Hi I was wondering if there are any other certified dog trainer's courses besides those run by the Delta Society and National Dog Trainer's Federation? (particularly in Sydney)? Has anyone done Cert III in Companion Animal Services (at TAFE) and also done Cert IV Companion Animal Services through Delta Society (the one that they alter to make the "dog trainer's course")? I am doing my Cert III at TAFE and am wondering if Cert IV would be doubling up on a lot of subjects/learning. (The Cert III at TAFE does have one small dog behaviour module, but it's really not geared towards being a trainer's course at all - it's just a general animal care industry introductory course). At this stage I am leaning more towards doing NTDF's Cert III in Training & Behaviour. Edited July 19, 2009 by midnightmint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Those are the only two certified courses that I know about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby_oz Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Those are the only two certified courses that I know about I called the NDTF to enquire and their course is the only fully accredited one in australia? They said all of their modules are accredited? Not sure if that helps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipsqueak Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 are you aware that you can now do the NDTF course by "distance learning" and do your prac blocks in Sydney (Dural)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I am going back to front, i have done NDTF, and am going to TAFE next year to do their courses I signed up for Delta many many years ago, but ended up pulling out before i did the course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussienot Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I called the NDTF to enquire and their course is the only fully accredited one in australia Do some research and you'll find this is not true. The Delta course is fully accredited, and was long before NDTF started offering courses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) I called the NDTF to enquire and their course is the only fully accredited one in australia Do some research and you'll find this is not true. The Delta course is fully accredited, and was long before NDTF started offering courses. Isn't there a question though about Delta not being accredited as a "dog training" course? I think their accreditation is as a "companion animal" course, or something like that. Haven understands the differences between the two more than I, including I think, the differences in the modules they offer. Edited July 23, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Have pasted this from a previous thread: According to their course synopsis, the following is a list of the units of competency from the Certificate IV in Companion Animal Services course offered by Delta and the Certificate III in Dog Behaviour and Training offered by the National Dog Trainers Federation (NDTF). By clicking on the respective course titles you can go to their website for more information on what is covered in each unit. Units included in both courses appear in bold: Certificate IV in Companion Animal Services ALTFA1A Apply Basic First Aid: NB This unit is not offered by Delta, you must obtain it seperately from another RTO, probably at an additional cost BSZ404A Provide Training through Instruction and Demonstration of Work Skills RUV3101A Carry out Workplace OH&S Procedures RUV3503A Work Effectively in the Companion Animal Industry RUV3504A Monitor and Maintain Health of Companion Animals RUV4101A Implement and Monitor the Organisation's OH&S Program RUV4501A Manage Compliance in the Companion Animal Industry RUV4506A Develop Enrichment Strategies for Companion Animals RUV4511A Provide Training Advice to Companion Animal Owners RUV4512A Conduct Companion Animal Training Classes RUV4611A Prepare, Deliver and Review Animal Care Education Programs 21574VIC Certificate III in Dog Behaviour and Training RUV2102A Follow OH&S Procedures in an Animal Care Environment RUV2104A Provide Food and Water for Animals RUV2105A Participate in Workplace Communications RUV2107A Provide Basic First Aid for animals RUV4512A Conduct Companion Animal Training Classes VBN806 Apply Animal Psychology to Modifiy Canine Behaviour VBN807 Investigate and Assess Canine Behaviour VBN808 Conduct Dog Obedience and Agility Classes VBN809 Identify and Manage Canine Behaviour Problems VBN810 Monitor Canine Health Care VBN811 Teach Dogs Complex Skills and Tricks VBN812 Train Dogs for Basic Assisstace Roles VBN813 Train Dogs for Basic Substance Detection VBN814 Train Dogs for Basic Tracking and Trailing Points to note in comparison: The Certificate III in Dog Behaviour and Training includes some imported units (the 'RUV' units), however was largely written by the National Dog Trainers Federation to be specific to dogs, dog training and dog behaviour. The Certificate IV in Companion Animal Services was not written by Delta or Delta instructors and it is not specific to dogs, dog training or dog behaviour. Delta claim that while they deliver the training package in accordance with DEST requirements, they have customised their delivery to have a "distinct Delta orientation". When delivering a training package or unit of competency, a small amount of additional information is allowed to be included beyond what is outlined in the training package, however you are not allowed to be assessed on information given that is not in the training package, nor can you recieve any kind of nationally recognised qualification for it. As noted on their website, the Delta Society promotes the use of what they refer to as only humane methods and equipment. This basically means they advocate the 'positive only' style of training. Dogs attending the practical training elements must be on only flat collars, martingales, harnessess or headcollars. "If prospective students use or promote check chains this course will not be suitable for them". Given this, I really doubt that they teach a balance of all training styles and pieces of equipment and it certainly wouldn't be "as broad, if not broader" than that offered by the NDTF who pride themselves on covering a scientific, unbiased view of ALL styles of training and ALL types of equipment. Edited July 24, 2009 by haven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Edited because I confused myself, damn terminology Edited July 24, 2009 by haven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Personally, i am not a fan of Delta NDTF give you a try at all training tools and say go out and use the one you like Delta give you a try at the ones they believe are 'positive' and say go out and ONLY use these ones. I love my prong and check chain, so Delta and i will never agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Just to add to Haven's very comprehensive post (and please feel free to correct me at any time Haven ) The RUV4512A Conduct Companion Animal Training Classes unit, specifically, is actually given to the RTO's (Registered Training Organisations) as a "shell" ie. there are certain elements that must be covered to meet the accreditation standard. The body (content) of the unit is then written by the RTO which must cover each element as prescribed. The other RUV units are all generic units which have been written by an independant body (can't remember their name) which the RTO purchases the rights to use. If they want to add a dog training slant to the units they can and as Haven mentioned, any additional information that does not form part of the core unit's elements is not and cannot be tested for and/or given accreditation. The "VBN" units offered by the NDTF have all been written by the NDTF and are ALL accredited units which are assessed for and do form part of the accrediation title. Therefore this quote: Do some research and you'll find this is not true., is actually not correct. The NDTF course units are all nationally accredited. It matters not who started offering the courses first, what matters is who provides a more comprehensive course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightmint Posted July 25, 2009 Author Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) The "VBN" units offered by the NDTF have all been written by the NDTF and are ALL accredited units which are assessed for and do form part of the accrediation title. Thank you - this is what I have been trying to find out for the past week or so... but it seems that even NDTF/Precise Training AND VETAB haven't been able to give me a solid response on that yet. Edited July 30, 2009 by midnightmint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) BAM, thank you - this is what I have been trying to find out for the past week or so... but it seems that even NDTF/Precise Training AND VETAB haven't been able to give me a solid response on that yet. Looks like you are expected to pay $3000 and just trust/hope that all the units are accredited and nationally recognised.. Rest assured MM, that the NDTF course is fully nationally accredited with all Units/Modules carrying the accreditation. Edited July 29, 2009 by Troy Removed text Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnightmint Posted July 25, 2009 Author Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) Rest assured MM, that the NDTF course is fully nationally accredited with all Units/Modules carrying the accreditation.Who have you spoken to at NDTF? I've tried explaining several times that I've already done the RUV units at TAFE, so there would be no point in me doing the course if the VBN units aren't nationally recognised as well.. they werent able to confirm that for me.. I'm frustrated because I want to get the Pay Upfront discount (one month in advance) which means I have to pay next week.. and still dont know/havent decided if I should do the course (because I havent been given answers..). Edited July 30, 2009 by midnightmint Remove names Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddybear Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Rest assured MM, that the NDTF course is fully nationally accredited with all Units/Modules carrying the accreditation.Who have you spoken to at NDTF? I've tried explaining several times that I've already done the RUV units at TAFE, so there would be no point in me doing the course if the VBN units aren't nationally recognised as well.. they werent able to confirm that for me.. I'm frustrated because I want to get the Pay Upfront discount (one month in advance) which means I have to pay next week.. and still dont know/havent decided if I should do the course (because I havent been given answers..). Hi have you started the course, how are you finding it? I am planning on starting early next year and would really appreciate some feedback. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canine Saga Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 On 24/07/2009 at 10:24 AM, haven said: Have pasted this from a previous thread: According to their course synopsis, the following is a list of the units of competency from the Certificate IV in Companion Animal Services course offered by Delta and the Certificate III in Dog Behaviour and Training offered by the National Dog Trainers Federation (NDTF). By clicking on the respective course titles you can go to their website for more information on what is covered in each unit. Units included in both courses appear in bold: Certificate IV in Companion Animal Services ALTFA1A Apply Basic First Aid: NB This unit is not offered by Delta, you must obtain it seperately from another RTO, probably at an additional cost BSZ404A Provide Training through Instruction and Demonstration of Work Skills RUV3101A Carry out Workplace OH&S Procedures RUV3503A Work Effectively in the Companion Animal Industry RUV3504A Monitor and Maintain Health of Companion Animals RUV4101A Implement and Monitor the Organisation's OH&S Program RUV4501A Manage Compliance in the Companion Animal Industry RUV4506A Develop Enrichment Strategies for Companion Animals RUV4511A Provide Training Advice to Companion Animal Owners RUV4512A Conduct Companion Animal Training Classes RUV4611A Prepare, Deliver and Review Animal Care Education Programs 21574VIC Certificate III in Dog Behaviour and Training RUV2102A Follow OH&S Procedures in an Animal Care Environment RUV2104A Provide Food and Water for Animals RUV2105A Participate in Workplace Communications RUV2107A Provide Basic First Aid for animals RUV4512A Conduct Companion Animal Training Classes VBN806 Apply Animal Psychology to Modifiy Canine Behaviour VBN807 Investigate and Assess Canine Behaviour VBN808 Conduct Dog Obedience and Agility Classes VBN809 Identify and Manage Canine Behaviour Problems VBN810 Monitor Canine Health Care VBN811 Teach Dogs Complex Skills and Tricks VBN812 Train Dogs for Basic Assisstace Roles VBN813 Train Dogs for Basic Substance Detection VBN814 Train Dogs for Basic Tracking and Trailing Points to note in comparison: The Certificate III in Dog Behaviour and Training includes some imported units (the 'RUV' units), however was largely written by the National Dog Trainers Federation to be specific to dogs, dog training and dog behaviour. The Certificate IV in Companion Animal Services was not written by Delta or Delta instructors and it is not specific to dogs, dog training or dog behaviour. Delta claim that while they deliver the training package in accordance with DEST requirements, they have customised their delivery to have a "distinct Delta orientation". When delivering a training package or unit of competency, a small amount of additional information is allowed to be included beyond what is outlined in the training package, however you are not allowed to be assessed on information given that is not in the training package, nor can you recieve any kind of nationally recognised qualification for it. As noted on their website, the Delta Society promotes the use of what they refer to as only humane methods and equipment. This basically means they advocate the 'positive only' style of training. Dogs attending the practical training elements must be on only flat collars, martingales, harnessess or headcollars. "If prospective students use or promote check chains this course will not be suitable for them". Given this, I really doubt that they teach a balance of all training styles and pieces of equipment and it certainly wouldn't be "as broad, if not broader" than that offered by the NDTF who pride themselves on covering a scientific, unbiased view of ALL styles of training and ALL types of equipment. The problem with "teaching the whole quadrant" is that shows a lack of understanding of classical conditioning and how it is at work all the time ... whether intentionally or unintentionally, whether the trainer is aware of it or not, including when the focus is on achieving results through operant conditioning (dog training as such). Like in the saying "Pavlov is always on your shoulder" (and Skinner on the other shoulder). That is the reason why the "positive only" ideal even exist (even if it isn't always realistically what is taking place)... because of the harmful and unpredictable side effects of aversive methods that result from the (unintended) classical conditioning that happens all the time alongside the operant conditioning based methods that are generally the focus of dog training. It means aversive methods generally undermine the animal's welfare and the owner-dog relationship... even if reward based methods are also used. When people favours a "balanced", "all 4 quadrants" approach, they generally reveal that they grasp *only* the 4 quadrants, which is really nothing but a framework to categorise/label the 4 main types of motivation that facilitate learning. While they are familiar with operant conditioning, they have a lack of awareness of the consequences of the other major form of conditioning that is happening, namely classical conditioning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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