Regression

[MrBusy]

Hello All,

We have a 16 wk old puppy. He has been excellent with his toilet training until now. Over the past few days he has wet inside numerous times and even wet in his cage and on his bed. He has access to the yard at all times to go to the toilet but sometimes he just seems to go where ever he feels like it, walking as he goes. Last night was the first time he has ever wet in his cage. During the day I have been watching him like a hawk and if he looks like going to the toilet I call him outside to go wee. This is usually after play or a big sleep.

It is normal for puppies to regress like this or could there be something wrong??? :p

Appreciate any advise.

[Erny]

I don't believe your pup is toilet trained. He might have been showing the right behaviour for it, but I doubt very much that he would have completely 'got it' at this early age. The problem when pups do seem to appear to have gotten the idea, humans tend to get a bit slack with their vigilance and that's often when things would appear to you to have "regressed".

I don't know where you live, but in addition to the above it's quite possible that the cold weather is deterring your little one from feeling like going outside.

Pups tend to need to toilet after play; after sleep; ..... and also after meals and also simply if they haven't been for a while.

And then, when you finally have your pup 'getting' the idea and preference for 'going' outside, you need to work on the other additional element of teaching him that when the door is shut it doesn't mean that he should 'go' inside. Many tend to forget about this element of toilet training.

Some pups are faster at toilet training than others. But even then, to claim "toilet trained" for a pup who's only been in our human world for a total of 16 weeks and of which probably only 8 weeks of which has been about not only training a behaviour but trying to get him to learn to control an immature bladder, I think is a little premature.

So my advice would be to go back to the beginning of toilet training (you'll need to because he's 'learnt' to soil inside) and work up from there. Shouldn't take you quite as long to get to where your (ie his) last success was, because you've already made a start on it, but stay at that point and don't relax until he's proven himself with a bit more reliability.

IMO "toilet trained" isn't something to be claimed until pup has had no accidents inside the house for a total period of 4 weeks in a row. Even when that is accomplished, you keep up the vigilance but you can begin to gradually relax over time.

[dancinbcs]

My puppies are usually well house trained by 16 weeks with some never making a mistake after 8 or 9 weeks as I start training them from 4 weeks.

I would get him checked for a UTI. The fact that he has gone in his bed and while walking along doesn't seem right to me and seems like he cannot help going without warning. If he gets the all clear from the vet then do as Erny says and start again.

[Parkeyre]

dancinbcs.

How do you teach them so early?

what are your methods, i'm interested in this as both millie and cooper were 20weeks when i considered them "toilet trained"

[Erny]

My puppies are usually well house trained by 16 weeks with some never making a mistake after 8 or 9 weeks as I start training them from 4 weeks.

I would get him checked for a UTI. The fact that he has gone in his bed and while walking along doesn't seem right to me and seems like he cannot help going without warning. If he gets the all clear from the vet then do as Erny says and start again.

I agree that it is always wise to get medical issue ruled out as a cause. Something I should have mentioned in my first post.

Dancinbcs - Some breeders are excellent in "setting the scene" to help make house training easier for the pup's new owners when they are ready to leave the 'nest' so to speak. It does make a big difference. But not all do this. All the same, whilst I don't think it is impossible for a 16 week old pup to have been "house trained", to have that expectation is a bit unrealistic for many pups. But I'm glad you raised the "rule out health issue" as it does have the potential for being the cause for the pup's lapse in its toilet training. :D

[MrBusy]

I would like to thank everyone for all their help and advise.

The breeder we brought him from begins the puppies toilet training from about 4wks so the pups are pretty good when you get them at 8wks. We have had a change of house so perhaps this has also upset the little fellow. It's off to the Vet's to get him checked to make sure there is nothing wrong medically. If all clear back basics.

Thank you again.

[Erny]

We have had a change of house so perhaps this has also upset the little fellow.

That would do it. A move of home for any dog can have a big impact. Chances are your pup hasn't 'generalised' his training to the new home. Not to mention that it can upset the dynamics and the fact that your pup might again have become uncertain of his new environment (the 2nd one in his so far short life). Assuming the move was only recent?

Hope everything is 'clear' at the Vet's.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Erny

[lucylotto]

My puppies are usually well house trained by 16 weeks with some never making a mistake after 8 or 9 weeks as I start training them from 4 weeks.

I would get him checked for a UTI. The fact that he has gone in his bed and while walking along doesn't seem right to me and seems like he cannot help going without warning. If he gets the all clear from the vet then do as Erny says and start again.

I agree that it is always wise to get medical issue ruled out as a cause. Something I should have mentioned in my first post.

Dancinbcs - Some breeders are excellent in "setting the scene" to help make house training easier for the pup's new owners when they are ready to leave the 'nest' so to speak. It does make a big difference. But not all do this. All the same, whilst I don't think it is impossible for a 16 week old pup to have been "house trained", to have that expectation is a bit unrealistic for many pups. But I'm glad you raised the "rule out health issue" as it does have the potential for being the cause for the pup's lapse in its toilet training.

My pup was what I consider in hindsight to be semi trained for quite a while. He has really totally 'got it' at 12 /12 which includes taking himself outside when needed via doggy door. He did the weeing whilst walking thing if excited, scared, unsure, if he had a fullish bladder but hadn't been full enough to go out and empty. So we had the odd accident for quite a while. He seemed to hang on as long as possible and if any of above occurred, would lose control. I always knew iut was him as there were no puddles but one long stream! ahhh! We just kept on timing things with him and being positive (after x3 kids are used to having to be consistent for long periods) and he eventually 'got it'. He definitely wouldn't take himself out by himself if it was dark or raining...bit of a wooz, we had to go with him. He's all grown up now and dark and rain don't scare him anymore.

I remember reading that most dogs don't have real mental control over tt until 20 weeks or something like that which I found reassuring. Up until then it is more good management and timing rather than their own thought process. (Like a baby not having control over sleep until 9 mths - if they are sleeping well, it is parents good management and luck but not their control)

Erny have you heard of this toileting control mental milestone?

[Erny]

Erny have you heard of this toileting control mental milestone?

No I hadn't heard of it referred to so specifically nor have I read anywhere (not to say it isn't written, but obviously haven't read up on it) that 20 weeks (5 months) is the 'magic marker' time where bladder control is sufficiently mature enough to be able to expect it. I presume that's what they are meaning by it. I'm only going by what I have found is reasonable expectation and even instinctively, 16 weeks is (if we're talking laws of averages here) fairly young to be able to expect and rely on the toilet training that has been done. But, when you think about it, around the 5 month mark would be a maturation period for many aspects of the dog. Entering adolescence is an obvious one - so it makes sense to me why bladder control could be part of that maturation process.

Like you, my boy took somewhat longer and it is only in the last couple of months that he is trying to give me signals that he needs to go out (if the doors are shut). Of course my hard job is being able to recognise those signals (they aren't particularly overt). But I figure if he can learn to read me, then I will learn to read the signs he is trying to show that mean "let me out I need to go" and reinforce him by responding appropriately so that those signs will become more definite, more clear. Prior to that, if the doors were closed, he figured that meant "toilet inside". After all, what choice did he have?

[luvsdogs]

My son's dog Sooty was fully toilet trained at 10 weeks old. But he got her at 5w/5d. She's nearly 9 y/o & never made a mistake in the house since.

Tilba is a different story. She was nearly 12 w/o when I got her & I think that's whats made the difference. She was living outside in a kennel yard when we got her. I followed the same method with the last 3 dogs we've had.

She usually gives a single woof when she wants to go outside or come in, which she has been doing for about 8 mths or more. Then after about 3-4 weeks she will do a wee inside. Up until tonight when she did one right in front of me she has gone about 5-6 weeks since she last did one inside. The thing that made me really mad tonight was she had only just come inside, had her dinner & a few minutes later I've been so concious of taking her outside if she's been in for a while or before letting her in (son let her in tonight). Every morning she woofs & sometimes I barely hear or imagine I hear her but stumble out of bed just in case. Sometimes she's still in bed.

April wasn't that good compared to Sooty, but with Tilba I think she finally has it & then she does it again. She will be 18 mths Sun week.

[dancinbcs]

dancinbcs.

How do you teach them so early?

what are your methods, i'm interested in this as both millie and cooper were 20weeks when i considered them "toilet trained"

As Erny mentioned it is all about setting the scene from the time they are really tiny. I suppose I really do start at about 2 weeks when they are on their feet with eyes open. At this stage I use a puppy pen to fence off a small area outside the whelping box and cover it with newspaper so that they can get away from the drybed they sleep on in the whelping box to toilet if they want to. Most start to do this and then when I start to wean from 3-4 weeks I try to run them outside onto the grass first thing in the morning and every time they wake and find that after a few days they start to poo as soon as they get out onto the grass. Then whenever the weather allows I feed them on the grass and don't put them back in their run until they have all toileted. By 4 or 5 weeks I try to move them into an outside run that has a bed/kennel in a shed with drybed in it and an enclosed concrete run covered in wood shavings. Off the concrete run there is a grass run that they are allowed out into first thing in the morning and have access to all day unless we all need to go out and lock them in the concrete run for security.

Allowing them access to get away from their bed and onto the grass as soon as they wake and after every meal means that they virtually train themselves. As this starts to happen I add a command that I continue to use to get them to toilet on command for the rest of their lives, and praise them whenever they go on grass. The new owners are instructed to follow this regime and to keep the puppy in a pen or small room (laundry, etc) with newspaper, overnight or at any time they are not closely watching the puppy. The puppy should only ever have the run of the house under supervision immediately after it has toileted on command so that it learns that the only way to be allowed in is to comply. Depending on the individual bladder control of they puppy some can be trained within a week of going to their new home.

It is very rare for my puppies to ever poo in the house after 4 weeks provided they are allowed out at regular intervals. They learn to hold on and wait until they are let out. Male puppies generally get bladder control earlier than females and it is up to the owner to watch the puppy to recognise when this occurs. If they start sniffing round before urinating they are mature enough to hold on until let out. If they go with seemingly no warning then they cannot help it and need to be confined until this stops happening.

Finally some important points. Never let them make a mistake or they will learn that it is OK to go in the house. If they make a mistake accept that it is the owner's fault not the puppy's. If you do catch them making a mistake growl at them and put them outside immediately to let them know that it is wrong. Clean up all scent where they went. Give the final feed for the day no less than one hour before bed and avoid a large afternoon meal. Puppies take approx 9 hours to digest a meal before they need to poo so feeding in the afternoon means that they will have to go through the night. I feed my puppies a small meal morning and afternoon and a larger meal at lunch time and late at night.

This all works perfectly for my smart Border Collies but I suppose some breeds may be a bit slower to catch on.

[pcarr]

my beagle puppy has been pretty good with toileting, but lately she has been having a few accidents - she is now 16 weeks old, very interesting info - thanks

[Erny]

my beagle puppy has been pretty good with toileting, but lately she has been having a few accidents - she is now 16 weeks old, very interesting info - thanks

And don't forget - it's colder weather now than it was. In some areas, enough to put many dogs who were 'sitting on the fence' with their toilet training, off from venturing outside. Of course, it's never a big deal when there's a game to be had .

[Silver Deer]

my beagle puppy has been pretty good with toileting, but lately she has been having a few accidents - she is now 16 weeks old, very interesting info - thanks

And don't forget - it's colder weather now than it was. In some areas, enough to put many dogs who were 'sitting on the fence' with their toilet training, off from venturing outside. Of course, it's never a big deal when there's a game to be had .

I think I am having this same problem (the cold) - what can I do about it, should I take a treat outside to encourage her to come out? Or is it that the cold is deterring her from the actual act of going to the toilet? She is about eight months old, and we have been fostering her for a week; she was going well until the weather started to get a bit more brisk towards the end of this week.

(This is new to me, I had my last dog when I was living in a tropical country, so cold weather wasn't an issue! )

[artimus'mama]

my beagle puppy has been pretty good with toileting, but lately she has been having a few accidents - she is now 16 weeks old, very interesting info - thanks

And don't forget - it's colder weather now than it was. In some areas, enough to put many dogs who were 'sitting on the fence' with their toilet training, off from venturing outside. Of course, it's never a big deal when there's a game to be had .

Ugh!!! I have an 18 w/o beagle girl too and we are having the exact same issue!! I will not say that she was ever fully toilet trained but she knows what to do. She knows her spots and she knows that she needs to go outside. But lately there has been a complete disregard. She just doesn't care and doesn't seem to care that she gets a dressing down when she gets caught in the act. I will take her outside and encourage her to go and she will sniff in her usual spots but then ask to come back inside. Then about ten minutes later, not after play of any sorts, she will go on the carpet. If it is the cold that is deterring her, what should we do?

She is not mch of a barker so is there a way to show her a signal for her to give me? Wishful thinking right?

Any suggestions would be great. We have just gone back to full supervision again but she's almost 5 months now and just doesn't need supervision for anything else.

[Silver Deer]

my beagle puppy has been pretty good with toileting, but lately she has been having a few accidents - she is now 16 weeks old, very interesting info - thanks

And don't forget - it's colder weather now than it was. In some areas, enough to put many dogs who were 'sitting on the fence' with their toilet training, off from venturing outside. Of course, it's never a big deal when there's a game to be had .

Ugh!!! I have an 18 w/o beagle girl too and we are having the exact same issue!! I will not say that she was ever fully toilet trained but she knows what to do. She knows her spots and she knows that she needs to go outside. But lately there has been a complete disregard. She just doesn't care and doesn't seem to care that she gets a dressing down when she gets caught in the act. I will take her outside and encourage her to go and she will sniff in her usual spots but then ask to come back inside. Then about ten minutes later, not after play of any sorts, she will go on the carpet. If it is the cold that is deterring her, what should we do?

She is not mch of a barker so is there a way to show her a signal for her to give me? Wishful thinking right?

Any suggestions would be great. We have just gone back to full supervision again but she's almost 5 months now and just doesn't need supervision for anything else.

I am fully supervising too! I would love some advice about dealing with the cold. I suppose the obvious thing might be to try a coat, but honestly I don't know if that would change anything?