Beginners Obedience

[kayla1]

I've just started obedience with a small bc x about 2 yrs old, with the aim of doing flyball. He is extremely high drive - intense focus on balls and toys, very excitable, and also anxious with people he doesn't know. At obedience we have started off working away from the group to give him more space. His behaviour alternates between being over-excitable and being anxious. He barks and squeals and becomes very excited at seeing other dogs running, however if a strange person comes within a few metres he becomes anxious and barks at the person.

Should I use distraction for both behaviours? When I distract him using a toy, he gets all hyped up (barking, jumping, spinning) as toys are very high value. I've also used food which is lower value to him and doesn't get him so excited. Some people have suggested using distractions for anxious behaviour and a correction (water spray) for the excitability. Other people have suggested using the 'be still' exercise for the anxious behaviour. I am working on his self-control at home and in quieter environments, and incorporating some drive training, and he is improving though it is taking time. I'd love to do flyball with him but he needs to reach a certain level of obedience before we can start.

Does anyone have any suggestions about helping with the anxious and excitable behaviour? Thanks.

[ness]

I would recommend getting hold of a copy of Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt.

http://www.agilityclick.com/prod158.htm

Edited July 8, 2009 by ness

[Kavik]

Focus is a good place to start, and you may want to do this at home with few distractions at first, then build up to the distractions you will find in a class situation.

I'm not sure how experienced you are.

I would work on focus (clicker training is great for this ), basic obedience (sit, drop, recall) and any flyball foundation work in a low distraction environment first before going into class.

[Cosmolo]

If you are using a distraction such as a toy, you must make sure it is produced before the barking at people does- or you will invertently reward the behaviour. What training equipment do you walk him on at the moment? Lots of drive training sounds as though it would be very beneficial for him to start to gain self control.

[poodlefan]

I think some one on one time with a good professional trainer might be a really good investment.

Group classes are fine for most dogs but for more challenging dogs, private instruction is always a good idea to get you started.

To be quite frank, I'm not sure that I'd suggest Flyball as the best sport for a dog of this nature. Flyball is highly arousing. That level of arousal can be an enduring effect on dogs that don't have particularly stable personalities to start with. I'd recommend you find a good trainer get some instruction and discuss an ideal dog sport with them.

[Kavik]

That is a good point poodlefan, whenever I've watched flyball the dogs look VERY excited and noisy. They are also in close proximity to other dogs and run next to and opposite other dogs.

[kayla1]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

I've had a behaviourist out a couple of times but it was mainly for his barking/growling when strangers come to the door, and not really dealing with other behaviours. I've done some drive training with one of my other dogs who is also high drive, but have never had a dog with this level of drive and excitability before.

I've been working on focus and basic obedience in quieter environments and he is much better with self-control as he is so intently focused on whatever I have in my hand - ball, toy or anything really. Perhaps it was too big a jump from these quiet environments to the obedience club.

He is brilliant off lead, fantastic recall. Still wary of strangers off lead but very easily distracted by his ball. He is much more anxious on lead. Cosmolo he is walked on a flat collar, though he needs more work with on lead walking - to be honest I tend to walk him more off lead just because it's easier.

The behaviourist who assessed him suggest flyball, but I hadn't thought about that sport being too arousing. The instructors at the obedience club haven't really made any suggestions, but perhaps I need to see another trainer/behaviourist.

[Kavik]

How are you teaching focus? Is the dog focussing on you or only the toy in your hand?

[kayla1]

How are you teaching focus? Is the dog focussing on you or only the toy in your hand?

He focusses first on whatever I have in my hand, but he won't get rewarded until he makes eye contact with me. If I do this in a low distraction environment he will sit, freeze, look intently and shake with anticipation until he gets his ball (or whatever it might be). Then I do things like putting his ball on the ground, or throwing it, and he has to wait until he makes eye contact with me and gets the ok before he can get the ball. He is getting quicker at making eye contact with me.

But at obedience the other day, he was so worked up and all self control went out the window - so instead of sitting and focussing on me, he was barking continously, spinning and throwing himself in the air cos he knew I had his toy in my pocket.

[Kavik]

The focus at home sounds good Have you been using a verbal marker or clicker?

I think it sounds like classes were too exciting/too much of a distraction.

[kayla1]

I use a verbal marker, yes. That's good to know re classes being too exciting as I can work on that. At the moment I ignore the barking/jumping and reward when he is sitting and focussing on me. But what about the anxious behaviour with strangers, should I try to distract him before he reacts, or what are the other options? I did try the 'be still' exercise for a while but it didn't seem to work, or maybe I was doing something wrong. Water spray has no effect.

[J...]

Any chance you can borrow or buy a copy of Susan Garrett's book "Shaping Success"? There is some great information in there about how she coped with her over the top BC Buzz and taught him to control himself in some incredibly stimulating environments.

She talks about how she couldn't even get him into the puppy school building without him screaming his head off and being totally out of control, and having to work him in the carpark so she could actually get him to listen. Same with his access to agility equipment and even attending his first agility trial. It would be my favourite training book and it's an easy read. I pick something up from it everytime I read it.

You sound like you're doing a pretty good job with him already. Good luck with his further training.

[dogdude]

I wouldn't be taking him to obedience until he at least can control himself around the item.

You should not have to hide the item, and shouldn't full stop anyway.

You are really better off using an item that is kept on you, and not thrown if possible. That way you have total control of it, and you can teach him that self control is what is needed to get it.

You can then teach him that releasing the item is what restarts the game, and later,.....completing his work will restart the game.

I advise you to tranfer the drive to an orbee on a rope or a tug. Its much more convenient than trying to throw a ball around at club too.

[kayla1]

Yes I use a tug toy at obedience - the ball is used along with various other toys when training in other environments. Fortunately this boy is goes into drive for just about any ball or toy. I don't try to hide the toy at obedience - it's kept in my pocket simply for convenience.

Thanks Jess, have been reading Control Unleashed but forgot about Shaping Success. Will look at that too.