Owner Behaviour More Influences Dog Behaviour, Than Breed

[Rex]

Well of course Rex.

You own them.

They are not a prohibited breed either, did you know that???.

[BullyLife]

Oh no! Really? Well there ya go.

And your point ?

[sandgrubber]

Oh no! Really? Well there ya go.

And your point ?

I think Rex is saying that you can breed the aggressive tendencies of a breed up or down and GSD breeders have had to breed the down to end up with a socially acceptable household dog. To me that's the point. BSL is a clumsy tool. But where breeders in a specific breed are tending to breed up HA or DA, it may be appropriate for government to intervene.

Would you like to live next door to a dog that was the endpoint of several generations of selection, all aiming to produce the ultimate junkyard dog?

On a personal note: I got bitten by a junkyard GSD . . . in a real junkyard during open hours . . . in the 1970s. Fortunately I was wearing heavy boots or my Achilles tendon would have been at risk. I don't blame the dog or the owner and I took no legal action . . . . but I do fault the system that permits such dogs to be at large during open hours. If dogs are bred to be highly protective, and/or trained to attack, it may be appropriate to restrict their appearances in public places and their 'use' as weapons. Often this goes along breed lines.

[BullyLife]

Sandgrubber I was being sarcastic lol

Rex continues on about 'his' gloried breed ,meaning no offence to the othe GSD peopl,but they were banned once too. The Pit has done very little to earn such notorious fame , particularily in Australia . I would like to know if Rex has met a Pit.Actualy not just met,nut really met,interacted with the dog.Or many of them. Or in fact none of them. I'm curious.

We have all been saying for years now its the dits that own them , not the dogs. Who knows,maybe we are getting somewhere.

[RottnBullies]

It is unfortunate that they didn't include extremely HA breeds, eg, the Fila Brasiliero, in the study. I suspect that, had they done so, they would have come to a different conclusion.

The more I read on the Fila, the more I conclude that it is a true example of breeding for hostility to those outside the pack can be successful . . . and that aggression can be inbred. I would encourage others to Google the breed and read what clubs and breeders have to say. Breed advocates, in general, agree that good puppies show "aversion" to strangers from a very early age. Show standards say it's ok for the dog to bite the judge . . . dogs are supposed to be aggressive to strangers. Also, that you need to put a lot of training into your pup if you want to end out with a dog that won't attack your house guests.

Note, this is not an anti-Fila campaign. From what I can gather, the Fila is a lovely breed . . . but dangerous if not managed properly. I think the danger is adequate to justify laws. I have no doubt that the HA tendencies could be bred out if breeders were so inclined. . . .but in general they aren't. Ok in rural Brazil (unless you are an indigenous person who feels it's ok to nick an occasional bovine that has been put on your ancestral land . . . or a jaguar).

I am against BSL for the APBT, Rotti, Dobe, or GSD. But, in principle, I think legislative solutions are appropriate where selective breeding brings out HA or DA potential. It is unfortunate that the law is not skilled enough to affect the cause .. . . breeders who breed for a weapons grade dog or a dog for the fighting ring. I think that blanket anti-BSL attitudes are a denial that aggressive tendencies can be hereditary . . . and thus lessen the pressure to breed for dogs who can easily be trained to standards that are acceptable in Australia (or other places where gunslingers, kidnappers, pirates, and other outlaws don't have a major impact on day to day life).

How can you say you're against BSL, when In actual fact you are pro BSL

The reason I say you're pro Is that you're willing to have the Fila on the BSL list, purely based on what you've Googled,

You just can't say I'm against It, but glad the Fila's are on the list!

Here Is your quote from another thread!

I am glad Australia has prohibitions against importing Filho Brasiliero . . . given that they are huge and the breed standard specifies that they should be hostile to strangers. I have no doubt it's possible to breed man-killers and if anyone is doing this, as an individual, or as a breed, I think they deserve a kick where it hurts, as well as castration of their breeding stock.

If this Is NOT an anti Fila campaign, I'd hate to see what actually Is one by you

[tybrax]

How can you say you're against BSL, when In actual fact you are pro BSL

The reason I say you're pro Is that you're willing to have the Fila on the BSL list, purely based on what you've Googled,

You just can't say I'm against It, but glad the Fila's are on the list!

Totally agree with Rottnbullies comments.

tybrax

[BullyLife]

Oh forgot to add that I wouold agree with you one som,e points re certain breeds Sandgrubber. I wont go as far to say that a BSL blanket situation should be thrown over them,its been shown not to work anyway,but I do reckon something needs to be done .Breeds such as the Presa,which is being used as an example , I dont believe should be part of society as a whole either.Ther ARE bred for human aggression.They ARE bred to bite unprovoked.

We do need asome common ground somewhere surely.

Edited July 28, 2009 by BullyLife

[BJean]

Look at the findings of this recent study from the University of Cordoba in Spain. Accompanied by a great photo of a Pitbull.

ScienceDaily (May 1, 2009) — Many dogs are put down or abandoned due to their violent nature, but contrary to popular belief, breed has little to do with a dog's aggressive behaviour compared to all the owner-dependant factors. This is shown in a new study from the University of Córdoba, which includes breeds that are considered aggressive by nature, such as the Rottweiler or the Pit Bull.

The conclusions, however, are surprising: it is the owners who are primarily responsible for attacks due to dominance or competition of their pets.

The research team from the University of Córdoba (UCO) has determined a series of external factors which are inherent to the dogs in order to understand their aggressiveness, and they have observed that external, modifiable and owner-dependent factors have a greater influence on the animals....

The study, which has recently been published in the Journal of Animal and Veterinary Advances, is based on the following fact: approximately 40% of dominance aggression in dogs is associated with a lack of authority on the part of the owners who have never performed basic obedience training with their pets or who have only carried out the bare minimum of training.

Breed has less influence on aggressiveness

The Spanish researchers studied 711 dogs (354 males and 357 females) of which 594 were purebred and 117 were half-breed dogs older than one year of age. Among the breeds observed were the Bull Terrier, the American Pit Bull Terrier, the Alsatian, the Boxer, the Rottweiler, the Doberman, as well as apparently more docile breeds such as the Dalmatian, the Irish Setter, the Golden Retriever, the Labrador Retriever, the Miniature Poodle, the Chihuahua, the Pekinese, or the French Bulldog, which also exhibit dominant behaviour.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/...90424114315.htm

I have a litter atm and there are two individuals (of 9)

who really snarl and give a good go when they are picked up, touched, removed from their mother etc

when they dont want to be,

they will also gve a growl when you walk into the room and they are taken off guard.

of course the type of owner will determine their fate and the potential they reach

but I would say that these individuals

will mature to have a high propensity for aggression in certain situtations, in keeping with their breed sire line.

An owner wont remove this trait, only manage it so that they respect their owner, but respect to all other animal kind will be earned, not a given.

but maybe this is what the study was saying?