Grooming Mini Schnauzer For Show

[hotdoggy]

I am grooming my 16mth old boy for show and am finding it more difficult than I first thought (yes I do always look at skilled tasks and say "how hard could it be?" then I find out how hard).

I have been working off the website http://britmorschnauzers.com/handstrip.html for stripping him - I don't have a mentor to direct me, but I do take advice from people at shows (he usually looks so bad I think some of the exhibitors feel sorry for me).

I've also watched this youtube clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U1tUxOhViY and it seems great. The biggest problem I have is that

1. He looks like he has mange - these gaps will fill out right? right?

2. I can't get the legs as fru fru and fluffy as I've seen, could it be I haven't cut his legs short enough yet?

and

generally speaking do you have any absolutely favourite products or tools that you think are the only way to go?

I have a cheaper stripping knife with a red rubber grip and the blade is curved which I find easier to use than the more expensive Mars product, but am I fooling myself, maybe I'm damaging the coat?

Also in the youtube clip I saw that the groomer conditioned the beard - is it ok for the beard to be softened - could you use something like minkoil? Schroeders beard does stick out a lot.

OK I'm asking a lot and I realise it will come down to practice, but any tips or referals greatly appreciated xxx

PS tried to get pic in but could get it to load, have pics on facebook page (hotdoggy)

[oakway]

Sorry your having problems.

Until you learn how to prepare the dog I would suggest that you go to a professional and learn.

'You usually strip with finger and thumb. And no the holes won't fill in till the new coat grows back.

You may just have to strip right back to nothing and start again and roll the coat till you have it exactly how you want it.

[hotdoggy]

Sorry your having problems.

Until you learn how to prepare the dog I would suggest that you go to a professional and learn.

'You usually strip with finger and thumb. And no the holes won't fill in till the new coat grows back.

You may just have to strip right back to nothing and start again and roll the coat till you have it exactly how you want it.

Thanks Oakway, I would LOVE to go to a professional, does anyone know of any groomers that do stripped show dogs that would offer training (at a fee)? I've done grooming courses before, but haven't found anything that goes into preparing show dogs? I am in Yass not too far from Canberra or Goulburn, if anyone knows of any trainers in stripping dogs properly I'd really appreciate it. As for going right back now, can I just roll the coat until the other bits catch up?

At the end of the day Schroeder is the dog we are learning with, so it's all a good experience

Cheers

[Clyde]

Sorry, Schnauzers are definitely not my forte.

Pm Settrlvr as she knows all there is to know with grooming them. I would be very careful about taking him to a groomer, you need to make absolutely sure that it is someone who knows what to do with a show coated Schnauzer.

Good luck!

[Dogsfevr]

Head to the schnauzer forum.

We dont use finger & thumb

All stripped coats require a stripping knife of some description to ensure the coat is pulled correctly from the base.

Which knife is purely personal although some equipment require money spent .

Are you trying to roll the coat??Or have you stripped it right back.Rolling the coat is an art of its own & you can often tell a rolled coat after awhile as essentially to roll you are breaking the coat unless you are blessed with asupr quick coat underneath,Stds are very easy to roll but i have yet to see a good mini coat that has been rolled for any long period,

Products it again comes down to the tricks of the trade.trial & error & how you use it & above all the coat.

As for leg hair being fru fru well again depends on the texture of the leg coat,some coat textures(cottony) look great but are wrong.good quality thick texture are easy to cylinder trim.

The correct texture really isnt all fru fru.

Th fru fru legs & how you trim them is again personal,we dont over trim but if your going to make sure you trim to your dog & its movement,many trim them to look pretty but emphasis faults.

Do you mouse /chalk at home before the show & what hair spray do you use??

Your facebook profile is private so cant see photos

Finding some who is offay in stripped coats is really worth hunting for,many may not be able to help alot but explain where your going wrong & whether your technique is bad.Ask some terrier people.

If your dog is in good coat & it looks like it has mange & pot holes then yes you are doing something very wrong & most likely breaking the coat.

You really need someone who can feel the texture & see the coat help you.

Edited July 7, 2009 by settrlvr

[hotdoggy]

Thanks so much settrlvr, that was really helpful.

I have stripped right back and he was almost bald, did it in sections, he is definately not in coat, at the moment he has extremely short hair but a few little stripes where I've obviously gone a little harder. The good part is I do feel the hair coming back much more coarse than before.

I've never shown him before and have got some white chalk, which I saw used on the legs in the video. And I have dog hairspray, but haven't used it yet and would be happy to buy whatever products work best. I have had a small grooming business (for pets not shows) before I moved to Yass so I have hydrobath and pet dryer table brushes etc.

I did see some instructions on rolling the coat and when I initially tried that I found I had no technique at all and couldnt get the hair out.

There's a Schnauzer forum?! Thanks I will get right in there! Sorry about the facebook, I didn't realize. I think I'll photobucket some pics and put links. I realize Schroeder will probably look pretty rubish at the first few shows we do, but at least then I can get some tips in person. I'll also ask in the schnauzer forum if there are any schnauzer events coming up.

Cheers and thank you so much.

[becks]

Here are some photos that might help you

showing how the 'skirt' is blended into the body. I take the stripping into the 'skirt' so the coat colour all blends in and retains the texture all the way down. This dog is very deep in body and his clipped underneath as the skirt is about 0.5cm - 1cm max length.

back leg, you will need to play around with the shaping to find out what suits your dog.

rear view showing clipped area and blending into stripped

blending into front leg with stripping.

side shot of the head

your dog could use longer eyebrows.

I've mentioned other grooming tips in the breed thread as that's where I first saw your request for help.

With the legs, shampoo - you can use a white or volumising shampoo - or even both! I think use a small amount of conditioner mixed in water on the legs and beard, rinse out. Towel dry. Apply mouse (if doing show bath, I will add in some loose chalk with a soft brush at this point). Blow dry the hair upwards to give lift at the roots. When scissoring, you don't want the legs the same length all the way down, the front legs will be tighter at the elbows - long hair here will flap about as the dog moves and make him look loose at elbow. Again on the rear legs you don't want a huge amount of hair flapping about. I use the stripping knife into the furnishings to encorage some harsh coat to grow in as this will help to hold the furnishings in place. Scissoring the legs with blades pointing upwards will give a more fluffy look to the coat but it is harder to get the lines right when you are learning and a lot of show groomers find it easier to have the scissors point towards the feet. When going into the ring, flick up the coat from the roots, spray the legs and before the spray dries, gently comb the tips down, it will give a fuller look.

Your stripping knife is a Mikki? The red is good for scrapping out the undercoat, the blue one is much better for rolling the coat with as it won't pull out small chunks in one go. Brush the coat up and just flutter about taking a few longer hairs out from all over the dog, never pull twice from the same area. I would also recommend you check the hair you remove is coming out at the roots and not being cut, new knives can be sharp on the coat and cut some of the hairs, plunging it into sand can take the sharpness off it. If you are still taking out chunks, look at getting an even more coarse knife until you get the hand of it.

Have you stripped the top of his head?

If you put up some photos of him groomed up, we can offer some more advice on how to make your boy look better.

[becks]

The finished article! He has been in a rolled coat for a long time now, it is possible if the coat is a good thick, hard coat. Poor coats seem to need taking right out every so often.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Finding some who is offay in stripped coats is really worth hunting for,many may not be able to help alot but explain where your going wrong & whether your technique is bad.Ask some terrier people.

Hotdoggy will you be at Bungendore? I know nothing about grooming schnauzers but should be able to suggest a terrier person to talk to. Pop around to the Hound ring and ask someone there to point me out.

Sorry if you've covered this elsewhere, but where is the breeder of your dog? If local, they should be helping you with this. If they live interstate it would be great if they are prepared to host you for a night or two and let you practice on a retired dog under their supervision, that is what you really need. Even if you have to pay for a hotel room, it's worth it in saved "experiments" with tools and product. It's pretty hard to replace hands on practice under the supervision of a breed expert. Speaking generally (not about Schnauzer exhibitors, I'm sure they're all lovely people) there will be a limit to what your competitors will help you with.

[hotdoggy]

The finished article! He has been in a rolled coat for a long time now, it is possible if the coat is a good thick, hard coat. Poor coats seem to need taking right out every so often.

Thanks Becks, you have been extremely helpful. The photos are great as they are really clear and show the lines i should take. I also hadn't realised that the skirt is so short. I am really motivated to get back to the dog now

With his head, I stripped the part bettween the eyebrows right back to bald, as shown in that brittmore site you recommended. The rest I used the blue coarser blade to take it back without goig bald. I clip the cheeks and ears and throat (and bum and groin).

I will try and fix him up today and wash him and will take some pics to post of my probably embarrassing results.

And yes, good guess it is Mikki, I have the red and blue and picked up another red at the local show last week as a back up. I love these blades as the wooden handled mars one gives me a blister and doesn't pull much out (although that might be a good thing considering my gaps). I will try using the blue handled one for now.

I really appreciate the time you have taken to pas on your expertise.

Cheers

[hotdoggy]

Hotdoggy will you be at Bungendore? I know nothing about grooming schnauzers but should be able to suggest a terrier person to talk to. Pop around to the Hound ring and ask someone there to point me out.

Sorry if you've covered this elsewhere, but where is the breeder of your dog? If local, they should be helping you with this. If they live interstate it would be great if they are prepared to host you for a night or two and let you practice on a retired dog under their supervision, that is what you really need. Even if you have to pay for a hotel room, it's worth it in saved "experiments" with tools and product. It's pretty hard to replace hands on practice under the supervision of a breed expert. Speaking generally (not about Schnauzer exhibitors, I'm sure they're all lovely people) there will be a limit to what your competitors will help you with.

Hi Anita, I would have been in Bungendore but have to head up to Brissie for my dad's 60th.

My breeder is a fair way away but they are not show people, they go more for agility (and I think some other activities), I did get some advice on using a tool that shortens the coat but doesn't stip it completely. I know in future I should get a show dog (and I will want a couple more once I get the hang of this) from a show family, but being new to it all of course not many exhibitors want to sell their pup on main to an unknown (fair enough). My breeders said they would set me up with a mentor that lives not too far away from me that is a retired Mini Schnauzer exhibitor but I think that fizzled out.

I won't expect others to give up their time to train me, but if there are any experienced groomers for this breed that would like to charge for training sessions, I would certainly be interested. I know my boy will be a bit odd looking and I am just entering (yet to be in one) the quieter shows and country shows for now. Which is doubley bonus because my daughter and I are excited about visiting these country towns on our little doggy adventures.

I'll make lots more mistakes, but I am really enjoying the process of the grooming and training and hope I enjoy running around the ring with my motly dog.

Cheers x

[oakway]

Why not take the dog with you and book in for some grooming lessons with and experienced shower/groomer in Brisbane.

[Dogsfevr]

I love these blades as the wooden handled mars one gives me a blister and doesn't pull much out (although that might be a good thing considering my gaps). I will try using the blue handled one for now.

We use soft cloth gloves when stripping.We also use rubber finger stalls & chop the end of to help lower blister risk

[becks]

The skirt length will depend on the depth of body your dog has. Read the breed standard! The chest should go to at least the point of elbow (many dogs are not this deep unlike my boy) so your skirt should start just below the point of elbow and angle upwards to the loin to again show off depth of chest. If your dog is from slow maturing lines, you may still need to keep checking your lines and altering them as he fills out and chest drops.