Dogs Nsw

[Vickie]

I am cross posting this. Please support our efforts to have the following proposal changed. Dogs NSW already collects a phenomenal amount of money from agility competitors by way of entries, ground hire, membership fees & the very expensive title applications that we are forced to apply for. $1 per entry!!!??? To use last Saturday as an example, I had 12 runs, this would mean and extra $10 just from me, just for one day. Given there were 823 runs over the day, that is a hell of a lot of extra money they will be collecting...and for what???? Other sports/events will not be impacted to the extent agility is as they typically only have 1-2 entries per dog. We can have up to 8 in a day.

To all NSW Agiliteers,

Everyone will be aware now of the notice in the June Journal announcing the planned increase in Levy from $1 per dog as it is now to $1 per entry as from January 2010. This greatly impacts on ALL Agility competitors in NSW and also those interstate travellers who trial in this state. This change was brought about at a Board meeting when the Agility Chairperson was absent. A rescission motion is being put by the Agility Chairperson, Lorraine Powell at the Board meeting on Wednesday and the Agility community

will need to make MUCH NOISE (yes I am shouting) on this issue if they are serious about wanting it dropped. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE start tapping those keys on your computer keyboard and send an email (ADDRESSED TO THE BOARD OF

DIRECTORS) PRONTO!!!!! Communications on this issue will need to reach the office by Wednesday morning (PREFERABLY TUESDAY) if they are to be taken into account. Please endeavour to send your support for Lorraine's motion.

This issue was previously defeated but it will not go away again without serious efforts from everybody.

If there are any affiliated Club officials out there please could you organise a letter from your Club as well. Clubs, to date, have in most cases, absorbed the current $1 levy cost but this will not be a possibility with the mooted increases for 2010. Please support this motion if you can possibly organise your secretary to send an email at such short notice.

INUNDATE the OFFICE with emails. Let people who are not on this list know what we are trying to do so that they too may become involved. Any interstaters who trial in NSW are also encouraged to have their say.

Please HELP. It is to your benefit too!!!

Edited July 8, 2009 by Vickie

[pipsqueak]

can i just ask if this is only agility, or are there plans for it to be applied to obedience as well?

[Vickie]

This effects every entry for a DogsNSW affiliated show or trial. Conformation, agility, obedience, tracking, herding, endurance, dancing etc.

There are 2 exceptions listed: Sweepstakes & Property classes. I have no idea why these are exceptions, I do not even know what they are.

The reason it severly impacts agility is that most dogs are eligible to run at least 4 events each day and sometimes as many as 8 (as opposed to other disciplines where a dog is entered in only 1-2 events). Our average time in each event is around 30 seconds! so we have to pay and extra dollar for each 30 seconds.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Vickie

[Erny]

Vicki - what does DogsNSW already do with the funds it already skims from the Agility sector (pre-levy increase) and what does DogsNSW plan to do with the extra funds (for 1 dog in 10 runs, that's a, what ..... 1000% increase?!) it plans to rake in from the agility sport & other activities?

ETA: From your explanation above, I can see where it is going to impact agility goers the most, for such a small amount of time in the arena. What's the comparison between (eg) showies to agility competitors in relation to the number of times each would be likely to have one dog in the ring/arena?

Edited July 6, 2009 by Erny

[poodlefan]

Vicki - what does DogsNSW already do with the funds it already skims from the Agility sector (pre-levy increase) and what does DogsNSW plan to do with the extra funds (for 1 dog in 10 runs, that's a, what ..... 1000% increase?!) it plans to rake in from the agility sport & other activities?

ETA: From your explanation above, I can see where it is going to impact agility goers the most, for such a small amount of time in the arena. What's the comparison between (eg) showies to agility competitors in relation to the number of times each would be likely to have one dog in the ring/arena?

Clearly they're not planning to improve the camping amenities at Erky Park. ;)

It's blatant milking of agility trials. Same thing happened in the ACT.

[Vickie]

who knows? I certainly don't see what benefit we are getting now & doubt very much that we will see anything from the increase.

We also have the added advantage of paying @21.85 per title and an extra $18.20 if you want a sash as well.

Trim has 15 titles, we are close to another 2 and have another 3 to go after that. I have spent $320 already just in titles for her (not including my other 3 dogs) & had to stop getting the sashes a while ago as it just got too much when Shine started getting her titles as well. I am not sure how many titles you can earn in other disciplines but have a feeling most are limited to about 4.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Vickie

[Erny]

And the other thing I'd be interested in knowing (especially if I was a NSW member, but also for the purpose of this thread) is what profit margin is the Association already running on. And to break it down into increments, what profit margin is the agility sector bringing in by comparison to other DogsNSW activities.

I mean, it's one thing that it doesn't seem fair to the agility crowd (is there more wear and tear to the grounds and equipment in the agility sport compared to other activities?) but it's another to wonder if the increase is necessary at all.

Which is why I'm interested in knowing the information queried in my above post.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Erny

[poodlefan]

I mean, it's one thing that it doesn't seem fair to the agility crowd (is there more wear and tear to the grounds and equipment in the agility sport compared to other activities?) but it's another to wonder if the increase is necessary at all.

Considering that the same levy applies to trials run on non DogsNSW ground and equipment, the short answer is no, it's not to cover maintenance costs. Dog clubs mostly do that.

[Vickie]

I mean, it's one thing that it doesn't seem fair to the agility crowd (is there more wear and tear to the grounds and equipment in the agility sport compared to other activities?) but it's another to wonder if the increase is necessary at all.

Erny the grounds (with the exception of Erskine Park, which we pay to hire) & equipment are not owned by Dogs NSW, they are owned by individual clubs. I am also worried that the inevitable decrease in entries for some of the smaller clubs may even make running a trial unviable.

[Janba]

ETA: From your explanation above, I can see where it is going to impact agility goers the most, for such a small amount of time in the arena. What's the comparison between (eg) showies to agility competitors in relation to the number of times each would be likely to have one dog in the ring/arena?

Show exhibitors would enter a dog in 1 class per show (property and sweepstakes not included if they are run)

Obedience a maximum of 2 classes.

Herding up to 4 if 2 types of stock are used and 2 courses run.

Agility as Vickie said up to 8.

I don't know about things like eathdog and doggie dancing but imagine it is similar to obedience.

They tried this a few years ago and it got squashed then and hopefully will be this time as well. Agility is the hardest hit by this decision.

[MolassesLass]

Could the clubs change their entry structure to give teams entry into all classes with the one entry? Something like $30 for entry to games (snooker, gamblers and strategic pairs), $15 for jumpers, $15 for agility etc. So at most 3 entries per trial.

Agility is always going to be at a disadvantage while it is one entry to one run - there isn't really any other way to easily raise revenue on a user pays basis other than adding/increasing an entry levy.

[Janba]

confused.gif who knows? I certainly don't see what benefit we are getting now & doubt very much that we will see anything from the increase.

We also have the added advantage of paying @21.85 per title and an extra $18.20 if you want a sash as well.

Trim has 15 titles, we are close to another 2 and have another 3 to go after that. I have spent $320 already just in titles for her (not including my other 3 dogs) & had to stop getting the sashes a while ago as it just got too much when Shine started getting her titles as well. I am not sure how many titles you can earn in other disciplines but have a feeling most are limited to about 4.

Herding has 1 certificate and 2 test titles (though if you want to you only need to apply for 1) At trial levels there are 3 for each course type and each stock type. If you compete on 2 different courses and 2 types of stock that is 12 and another 4 if you get a CH on each course type and stock.

At least you don't get tempted to get sashes for each title as they only do one for each trial level regardless of course or stock.

[Vickie]

Could the clubs change their entry structure to give teams entry into all classes with the one entry? Something like $30 for entry to games (snooker, gamblers and strategic pairs), $15 for jumpers, $15 for agility etc. So at most 3 entries per trial.

I don't think Dogs NSW would allow that ML. If it were under one entry, then results would also have to be combined. This would be impossible given that each dog may be at different stages for each game & that some competitors choose to enter some games & not others.

If they are willing to grant an exception to conformation by excluding sweepstakes & property, then I think it is only fair that they apply the same logic & put an upper threshold on agility levies.

[Erny]

They tried this a few years ago and it got squashed then and hopefully will be this time as well.

I hate that. Reminds me of children harping.

So - if it got squashed (presumably by member vote) and they are re-raising the proposal yet again despite that, they should be made to give very good reason why. In otherwords, what's different about the situation now to back then. Make them be accountable for their decisions/proposals. Rather than them being permitted to propose and re-propose things and make the members 'fight' each time to knock the same thing out of the arena (no pun intended) each time. If there is no difference now as to back then, they are simply wasting their members' time and effort. Make them PROVE they need to do something like this, AS WELL AS pointing out and objecting to the overt impact on the agility sector.

Now - in this economically stressed time - is NOT the time to put up fees. Especially if it is that the Association is running to profit.

Just my 2c's and opinion ;).

Edited July 6, 2009 by Erny

[MolassesLass]

If they are willing to grant an exception to conformation by excluding sweepstakes & property, then I think it is only fair that they apply the same logic & put an upper threshold on agility levies.

I would imagine that the reason they exclude sweepstakes and property classes is that these classes do not contribute towards the available titles (CH and GRAND CH). You can win prizes but no challenge points.

So to be the same application of rules, any agility round where only prizes and not qualification towards titles is on offer would be exempt.

[Vickie]

The only class that you are able to enter that does not count towards a title is a RQH (regional qualifying heat) round. There are 24 of these throughout the year around NSW.

We have an unlimited number of titles, eg once you get your ADM, you can go for ADM2, ADM3 etc.

[Janba]

If they are willing to grant an exception to conformation by excluding sweepstakes & property, then I think it is only fair that they apply the same logic & put an upper threshold on agility levies.

I would imagine that the reason they exclude sweepstakes and property classes is that these classes do not contribute towards the available titles (CH and GRAND CH). You can win prizes but no challenge points.

So to be the same application of rules, any agility round where only prizes and not qualification towards titles is on offer would be exempt.

Wouldn't that arguement also extend to baby puppy classes?

[MolassesLass]

Definitely the principle applies and should conformation people want to complain, they would have a case (if the exemption was applied for the reason I've guessed). BP classes aren't entered differently from the other classes as sweepstakes and property classes are so it would be too hard/costly to give the exemption in that case I would think.

[WreckitWhippet]

In NSW baby puppy and property classes are exempt.

We pay the $1 levy for each class entered.

Given that it was resolved at the April Board meeting to continue with the levy, it's unlikely to be revoked any time soon. We all pay it, be it conformation or sporting and we also pay for our titles, the same as sporting and obedience people do.

[Janba]

In NSW baby puppy and property classes are exempt.

We pay the $1 levy for each class entered.

Given that it was resolved at the April Board meeting to continue with the levy, it's unlikely to be revoked any time soon. We all pay it, be it conformation or sporting and we also pay for our titles, the same as sporting and obedience people do.

I don't think that it is paying it that is the problem but the amount paid. You would only pay $1 per dog at a show as each dog only enters 1 breed class whereas an agility competitor may pay $8 per dog at a trial. This motion has no effect on shows only onm performance events.

It also means that at an average Sydney agility trail the levy raised will be more than from most shows with probably only 1/4 of the number of dogs entered. The same would probably apply to country shows and trials.

ETA upt to now it has been $1 per dog entered.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Janba