Jamaica Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Alot of obedience clubs are now not allowing the use of check chains, so id go with a halti, but it is your dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all that glitters Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 The lady who took our first Obedience class today said she didn't want correction collars on the puppies, check chains and haltis. She said only flat nylon/leather collars or the martingale This grumpy looking mother and son had a halti on their little black lab puppy which I thought looked very extreme/wrong for a pup. I'm glad they were made to take it off, it was squashing his eye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charli73 Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 The lady who took our first Obedience class today said she didn't want correction collars on the puppies, check chains and haltis. She said only flat nylon/leather collars or the martingale This grumpy looking mother and son had a halti on their little black lab puppy which I thought looked very extreme/wrong for a pup. I'm glad they were made to take it off, it was squashing his eye! Our obedience school wont allow check chains on pups under 5 months old either... if you can conquer the lead pulling now its so much easier than when theyre 32kg and 12 months old Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Well, I have to say I deeply distrust check chains after my experience with them. We had this stupid dog next door that would charge Penny and try to... I don't really know as he never got the chance, but let's just say he bruised my mum's arm quite badly trying to get at Penny one day. I was walking past the front of the house and unexpectedly met him coming the other way. He was coming like a freight train, roaring at us on the way. Penny froze and I pulled her out of his path at the last minute with the leash. It all happened fast and all four of her feet were off the ground as I pulled her out of the way. The second time that happened (different dog) I decided to stop using the check chain. Penny hated it anyway. I imagine that if I'd been using head collars it would have been even worse. As a result of this, my dogs are walked on harnesses. They both have Ruff Wear Web Master harnesses that are all but impossible to wriggle out of and also have a handle. It is way safer than any kind of collar. Collars are for carrying ID tags and flashing lights when it's dark and that's all. The best thing about the handle is that it's positioned so it doesn't matter what your dog is doing, you can grab that handle with ease and lift the dog safely and comfortably off the ground if you have to. Kivi is over 20kg and I have used that handle to pluck him out of the air and set him down well clear of a pile of broken glass he was about to land in. Broke a nail in the process, though. Anyway, that's why I don't like check chains OR head collars. If I had a chronic puller the tree method hadn't worked on I'd get an anti-pull harness, but I'd far rather avoid the whole sorry affair and just teach good leash manners from an early age. You can't accidentally tighten a normal walking harness. Last time Kivi's car harness broke and I had to walk him on a flat collar he was skittish and anxious because he wasn't used to feeling pressure on his neck. I felt like he was going to pull out of that collar any moment and end up on the road. He didn't, but I bought another harness that day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I reinforced the right behaviour with treats, so when the dog caught up to me and was walking on a loose leash beside me I'd say 'yes' and would give them a treat. I would also reinforce them if they stayed walking on a loose leash after a while by saying 'yes' and giving them a treat and verbal praise. You might not get far the first few walking sessions but if you're patient and consistent it works well. Some people train it with a clicker instead of saying yes. I know you feel like an idiot, but if you are consistent with your timing and rewards you should see results - although you might find it helpful to consult a trainer for a one on one session or two so they can show you where you might be going wrong? I'm training my 8mth old GSD using this method and I couldn't agree more. I constantly watch her for good behaviour ie. click and treat when she looks at me instead of the dog barking along the fenceline. I now find that when she see's a dog waiting for her (within their yard), she will look at me (because "good" things happen when she looks at me ). If she starts pulling I might put her in a sit and CALMLY put her through a few excersises (sit, stand, drop in the one position), and when I have her full attention we'll start CALMLY walking again. I would look at it as a 15 minute training session, instead of a 15 minute walk being extended because she's pulling on the lead. Remember she's still only a baby. By the way Shellectra, after your girls earlier health problems, she's turned out a lovely LH Shepherd This is a good example that Gsdog2 has given us how her GSD girl responds to treat training where my GSD boy didn't at all, same breed entirely different temperament. How I wish that mine did at 8 months of age, but with a hard bloodline police/security dog background compared with pet/show breedings they respond to completely different techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Kelpies Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Hi Shellectra. I think your puppy is beautiful. I would love another GSD but now that I'm into Kelpies and can only own a limited number of dogs it's not likely to happen. Pulling is a difficult problem for trainers to overcome in the early stages of their learning. Don't worry it gets so much easier with exoerience. I can remember taking my first puppy to obedience classes and being dragged around the ring with my dog leaning into his choker chain (it was a long time ago when everyone used these in puppy class) making choking noises while the instructor called out "Nice loose leads." What on earth was I meant to do? Walk faster, hold my arm out straight in front of me which loosened the lead for a second until he leant into it again. I didn't have a clue and often jerked on the lead in my frustration. Later when I joined another club I learnt that walking on lead is more about teaching the dog position than about equipment or jerking and pulling. Here's a link to a great article on pulling on lead http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/nopulling.html I really like the line "Your dog pulls because someone, somewhere at some time, took a step when he put tension on the leash. " These days I do my training off lead when teaching my dogs to walk beside me. I'm lucky in that I have my own paddocks - it would be a diffierent story if I had to walk my dogs around suburban streets. I have started teaching pups indoors using a clicker and treats but these days use sheep as a reward for much quicker results. When I'm heading to the paddock to play with sheep I ask my dog to walk beside me. If he steps out in front, I immediately stop and don't take another step until the dog is beside me again. I don't think I've ever waited for more than 30 seconds but of course it can seem like ages. Occasionaly I will use a grass rake to block the dog from going ahead (not hit it) and walk beside a fence so the dog can't go wide around the rake. The dog very soon learns that if he wants to get to the gate to the sheep paddock it's in his best interests to walk beside me. In time this also works inside the paddock with the sheep. Walking on lead in public is easy then, as there are no greater interests for my dogs than sheep. You may not have sheep but I'm sure you can find lots of rewarding places that your dog wants to go, that can be used as a reward. I don't like using a check chain or halti. I think walking on lead is far more about training than equipment to solve problems. If my dog is distracted and lunges, I would much rather strong arm him with a flat collar or martingale to make him stop. It's a bit like when training horses you use a mild snaffle bit on young ones and only when your training is advanced and the horse responding to refined signals, you go into a double bridle or curb bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I would never recommend nor use any kind of head collar, so would choose the check chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I deeply distrust check chains after my experience with them. We had this stupid dog next door that would charge Penny and try to... I don't really know as he never got the chance, but let's just say he bruised my mum's arm quite badly trying to get at Penny one day. I was walking past the front of the house and unexpectedly met him coming the other way. He was coming like a freight train, roaring at us on the way. Penny froze and I pulled her out of his path at the last minute with the leash. It all happened fast and all four of her feet were off the ground as I pulled her out of the way. The second time that happened (different dog) I decided to stop using the check chain. Penny hated it anyway. I imagine that if I'd been using head collars it would have been even worse. Sorry- but I cannot see how being charged at by an aggro dog and pulling your dog out the way makes you distrust chain collars????? Is it because she froze? Was she freezing prior to attacking? Or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I trained my youngest border collie to loose lead walk totally off lead too 4kelpies. I try and tell my puppy people to never let their puppies pull ever but I know that they do, lol. Even though I tell them not to go for long walks, I know that they are off on their walks with a bit of half hearted training and then lots of pulling! Had 2 in the last class though that did take me seriously and their little fluffies were great! People seem to be already walking their puppies before they get to obedience class. And the pups have already learnt to pull. I want my own dogs to never learn to do it in the first place. My club has now totally banned correction collars unless you get a special pass to use one. I suggest a halti if I think it is a matter of safety, ie tiny female and big, strong dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I suggest a halti if I think it is a matter of safety, ie tiny female and big, strong dog. That's funny as one of the reasons I will never recommend or use haltis is because I don't think they are very safe at all... not just because of the neck/spine damage that can occur but from when I've used one on Micha. He could slip out of the head collar and backed out of it multiple times, I also had the clasp come apart twice when we were walking - and he was instantly lose along the street. If it was a matter of safety I'd rather have something on the dog I knew it couldn't get out of like a check chain/prong/martingale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Safety for the human! I've had a few combinations were the owner was in serious danger of being pulled over or dragged on to a road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 (edited) You need a halti connector so your halti is connected to your collar. Then if they get out of the halti they are not free to run off. A halti should never be used without one. http://www.blackdog.net.au/index.php?page=...rt&Itemid=5 Edited July 6, 2009 by rommimum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Safety for the human! I've had a few combinations were the owner was in serious danger of being pulled over or dragged on to a road. Ah ok, gotcha now I guess head collars make me uneasy after my experience with Micha. It's terrifying to have them get loose like that all of a sudden! I'd be reluctant to have one on a big strong dog for the reasons I mentioned anyway - would hate for the big strong dog to get loose. Maybe the design of the halti has changed since I used it, but I prefer to stick to something I know is fool (and husky) proof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 You need a halti connector so your halti is connected to your collar. Then if they get out of the halti they are not free to run off. A halti should never be used without one.http://www.blackdog.net.au/index.php?page=...rt&Itemid=5 Thanks for that Rommimum, I've never seen or heard of them before. I see people walking dogs on head collars quite a lot and they've always just had the leash connected to the head collar. Maybe the head collars should come with these or at least with instructions on using them along with the HC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I see people walking without them as well and it horrifies me! I don't think they were brought out in the beginning, but it was seen there was a need. Before they came out I used to recomment to people that they got an old chain, loop it around the collar and then clip your lead aroud the halti ring and the other ring on the chain. I have heard of a few dogs hit by cars and injured after slipping a halti. They should come with at least a warning or a recommendation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickasyoucan Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 (edited) I suggest a halti if I think it is a matter of safety, ie tiny female and big, strong dog. That's funny as one of the reasons I will never recommend or use haltis is because I don't think they are very safe at all... not just because of the neck/spine damage that can occur but from when I've used one on Micha. He could slip out of the head collar and backed out of it multiple times, I also had the clasp come apart twice when we were walking - and he was instantly lose along the street. If it was a matter of safety I'd rather have something on the dog I knew it couldn't get out of like a check chain/prong/martingale. I hate to burst your bubble huski but I've had a prong collar ping open before at completely the wrong time. It is not totally unheard off for the link to reverse off the loop. You have to make sure that the collar is fitted properly and is in the correct position. For back up you can attach to a loose martingale just for safety purposes. Sorry that is totally off topic as people already said not in any way suggesting/recommending this for the OP, but just be aware it can happen... Edited July 6, 2009 by Quickasyoucan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I deeply distrust check chains after my experience with them. We had this stupid dog next door that would charge Penny and try to... I don't really know as he never got the chance, but let's just say he bruised my mum's arm quite badly trying to get at Penny one day. I was walking past the front of the house and unexpectedly met him coming the other way. He was coming like a freight train, roaring at us on the way. Penny froze and I pulled her out of his path at the last minute with the leash. It all happened fast and all four of her feet were off the ground as I pulled her out of the way. The second time that happened (different dog) I decided to stop using the check chain. Penny hated it anyway. I imagine that if I'd been using head collars it would have been even worse. Sorry- but I cannot see how being charged at by an aggro dog and pulling your dog out the way makes you distrust chain collars????? Is it because she froze? Was she freezing prior to attacking? Or? She didn't freeze because she was wearing a check chain. She froze because she was terrified. Would you be comfortable having a dog hanging all four feet off the ground by a check chain? I distrust them because you can't "turn it off" when you don't want it to tighten. And I don't trust them because I don't trust myself with them. There is such a strong compulsion to flick that wrist whenever you don't like something, and sometimes you realise belatedly that your dog knew something you didn't. I like to listen to my dogs, but give me the tools to ignore them and focus on what I want and I'll do just that in spite of myself. Not saying that's what everyone does, I just know it's what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I distrust them because you can't "turn it off" when you don't want it to tighten. And I don't trust them because I don't trust myself with them. Ok- thanks for clarifying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I distrust them because you can't "turn it off" when you don't want it to tighten you clip it to the dead ring and it wont tighten. A check chain doesnt make you not listen to your dogs at all you should be paying attention to them no matter what the equipment it just applies a different correction from other equipment thats all. corvus any dog dangling with 4 legs off the ground isnt good no matter what the collar is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I did make that point, Nekhbet, and once again, that is why I walk my dogs on harnesses, now. Goodness knows what would have happened if she'd been wearing a head halter at the time. I'm not sure, but I imagine it would have been painful. I know that a check chain doesn't make you not listen to your dogs. I'm saying that it doesn't help me listen to mine. It's entirely a personal observation and wasn't meant to be a general comment on check chains. Sometimes I think I'm the one that needs to wear the check chain. Correct myself when my dog pulls! When I was training Kivi I got to the point where I was wrapping his long line around one finger so I could tell when he was pulling. I guess it was probably dangerous to my fingers, but it stopped me from letting him pull even a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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