Check Chain Or Halti?

[all that glitters]

Well Shyla has an ordinary nylon collar for now as she is a puppy. I have been to a GSD meet a few times now, and most of the adults have on check chains or haltis! Which is more effective to control a dog and stop pulling? Haltis look more daunting and more serious, check chains are way more common. She is already a puller, I am hoping to curb that with obedience help, but it seems with the larger dogs its good to have more than a nylon collar anyway for control if you need it?

[persephone]

Which is more effective to control a dog and stop pulling?

It all depends on the amount of expertise of the HANDLER

Any training aid- collar, halter,lead needs to be used in a certain way.

Most pups/dogs would pull on a lead. They automatically do it :cool:

You say your pup is a puller.......... what method have you used to try and correct this?

It is the handler's responsibility to study WHY this occurs, and then seek help for methods to show the dog another way of walking.

each pup/dog is different... and not every method is comfortable for every handler

I cannot advise you to use either.they are very different tools. I have trained many dogs in chain collars..and quite a few in haltis.

Haltis are a very controlling tool... and I believe should only be used after training and assessment.

[all that glitters]

It must be an automatic thing they do as pups then!

We start obedience tomorrow, so it will be interesting to see if their tips help us overcome the pulling. It just seems that almost all large dogs I see in public have check chains on? As opposed to being walked with a nylon collar. I guess it's better control IF a situation happened, and if they are not pulling anyway, it doesnt matter that they are wearing one? Hm

[huski]

If she's taught how to walk properly on a leash from puppyhood you won't need either If our dogs pull on the leash it's because we've taught them that's how they get where they want to go. Teach your pup that pulling gets her no where, if she's a pup you shouldn't need head collars or check chains to do this. What have you done so far to teach her to walk on a loose leash?

I would never put a head collar on a pup. I walk my dogs on martingales for safety because Micha can slip flat collars over his head. I prefer them to check chains as you can adjust them easily.

No puppy is born knowing how to walk nicely on the leash, it's up to us to show them how.

Edited July 4, 2009 by huski

[dee lee]

Im another martingale lover here.

My dog is a stubborn bugger and still will pull if given the chance despite a looooong time training her. I dont give her the chance and I also need the added control of her as she is DA.

The martingale is good because, unlike a checkchain, I dont have to keep adjusting it. Also it doesnt rub the fur off my dog's neck.

Personally I wont use a halti because when my dog was a pup she was a suprise lunger and I was concerned that she would snap her neck.

Mind you, if she was an easily trained dog then I would hope that I would only need a flat collar.

[Staranais]

If our dogs pull on the leash it's because we've taught them that's how they get where they want to go.

I'd never want to use a checkchain or halti on a puppy, I just don't think it's usually necessary. Different story if you have an adult who is already a confirmed puller, in that case some sort of collar can make learning to walk nicely less stressful for both handler and dog. But not with a puppy.

I inherited a very determined puller last time I adopted a dog, it was a real effort to retrain him, so I hope to teach my new pup from the very start that pulling is pointless. If pulling never works for her, she'll hopefully not ever want to do it.

[huski]

I'd never want to use a checkchain or halti on a puppy, I just don't think it's usually necessary. Different story if you have an adult who is already a confirmed puller, in that case some sort of collar can make learning to walk nicely less stressful for both handler and dog. But not with a puppy.

I inherited a very determined puller last time I adopted a dog, it was a real effort to retrain him, so I hope to teach my new pup from the very start that pulling is pointless. If pulling never works for her, she'll hopefully not ever want to do it.

I agree, it's different if it's a habit the adult dog has already learned.

In hindsight I can so see where I went wrong with Daisy. Luckily, I saw a trainer before her pulling got really bad and I learnt how to teach her to walk on a nice loose leash. She walks very nicely the vast majority of the time now.

Next time I get a pup I'm going to be so much more prepared to teach them how to walk on a leash, most owners just don't know any better and don't realise the pulling is much of a problem until the dog gets bigger and stronger, by which time they then need the aid of tools like checks and head collars to get the dog to stop pulling. I think the biggest problem is that a lot of people use them as a bandaid or quick fix (head collars especially) without actually using a training method to go along with the use of the tool.

[Rex]

Well Shyla has an ordinary nylon collar for now as she is a puppy. I have been to a GSD meet a few times now, and most of the adults have on check chains or haltis! Which is more effective to control a dog and stop pulling? Haltis look more daunting and more serious, check chains are way more common. She is already a puller, I am hoping to curb that with obedience help, but it seems with the larger dogs its good to have more than a nylon collar anyway for control if you need it?

I don't believe that too many "professional trainers" use or recommend Haltis. I am not referring to franchisee's of a training system business as some of these trainers I have found are not overly experienced other than teaching a system or selling equipment that their business promotes and do on occassion recommend the use of such equipment.

But for the experienced professional, check chains and fursaver chains are usually what is used.

[Erny]

I don't believe that too many "professional trainers" use or recommend Haltis. I am not referring to franchisee's of a training system business as some of these trainers I have found are not overly experienced other than teaching a system or selling equipment that their business promotes and do on occassion recommend the use of such equipment.

The "positive only" (so to speak) organisations/groups generally push/recommend the use of the head collars and they are often promoted as a "kinder, gentler" training tool. Or if not openly promoted that way, it is insinuated - merely by their expressions of disapproval of other collars for the 'danger' of mis-use, but omitting the mention of any danger of mis-use of the head collar. IMO, if you say to one you should say to the other. Otherwise it eludes (or do I mean 'alludes'?) the reader to thinking otherwise ...... I don't know if that's the desired goal or not.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Erny

[wuffles]

I have a 40kg dog and he wears a normal flat collar. He occasionally pulls (we got him as an adult rescue), but I still find him easy to control on the flat collar. The only time he's pulled me a few metres is when he surprised me on slippery ground, so now I walk him close and don't give him too much leash in those situations.

[Tassie]

I'm another who wouldn't put a check chain or a halti on a puppy. I used one of the Black Dog training collars - (scroll down to training collars) - with Rory, and really liked it. All the advantages of both a martingale and a normal flat collar. It just made sure he couldn't slip out of a flat colalr while he was learningn to walk nicely on lead.

[Cosmolo]

I had a lovely GSD in class today working very nicely on a ROGZ martingale collar, but as with any tool, you need to be shown how to use it properly. I have had clients who have been using a particular tool for months with no result- not because of the tool but because of the technique accompanying it.

With any type of correctional collar, its important that the handler gets the technique right before accidentally desensitising them to a correction. I get all baby pups to stay on a flat collar for as long as possible while the owners learn good handling skills and then if needed progress to a correctional collar of some kind.

[all that glitters]

I've tried giving a quick wrist flick to correct her to stop pulling, and I usually do that and stop walking til she stops pulling, and when the leash is slack and we're standing, I try to walk again, which results in more pulling. Our 10/15minute walk takes ages longer cos we're always stopping. I also tried the thing where you change direction continuously, but I just end up looking like an idiot, and it doesn't work either! It's usually when she gets nervous that she becomes a steamtrain (so to speak), cos thats when the pulling starts, we're mostly walking when it dark cos its usually 6.45am, and shes nervous in the dark, so I guess she will just get used to that aspect as well.

We start obedience tomorrow.. hopefully over the the weeks they show us how to tackle this. It's heaps annoying!

[Cosmolo]

When you say she's nervous, what do you mean, ie what is she doing? How do you hold your lead?

[huski]

I've tried giving a quick wrist flick to correct her to stop pulling, and I usually do that and stop walking til she stops pulling, and when the leash is slack and we're standing, I try to walk again, which results in more pulling. Our 10/15minute walk takes ages longer cos we're always stopping. I also tried the thing where you change direction continuously, but I just end up looking like an idiot, and it doesn't work either! It's usually when she gets nervous that she becomes a steamtrain (so to speak), cos thats when the pulling starts, we're mostly walking when it dark cos its usually 6.45am, and shes nervous in the dark, so I guess she will just get used to that aspect as well.

We start obedience tomorrow.. hopefully over the the weeks they show us how to tackle this. It's heaps annoying!

What do you do when you change direction? I used the change of direction technique with my two and it helped a lot. Make sure you aren't holding the leash too taut, so it's nice and loose, and the instant she pulls and the leash tightens turn quickly on your heel in a 180 degree turn, so she has to hurry to catch up to you.

I reinforced the right behaviour with treats, so when the dog caught up to me and was walking on a loose leash beside me I'd say 'yes' and would give them a treat. I would also reinforce them if they stayed walking on a loose leash after a while by saying 'yes' and giving them a treat and verbal praise. You might not get far the first few walking sessions but if you're patient and consistent it works well. Some people train it with a clicker instead of saying yes. I know you feel like an idiot, but if you are consistent with your timing and rewards you should see results - although you might find it helpful to consult a trainer for a one on one session or two so they can show you where you might be going wrong?

[Rex]

I don't believe that too many "professional trainers" use or recommend Haltis. I am not referring to franchisee's of a training system business as some of these trainers I have found are not overly experienced other than teaching a system or selling equipment that their business promotes and do on occassion recommend the use of such equipment.

The "positive only" (so to speak) organisations/groups generally push/recommend the use of the head collars and they are often promoted as a "kinder, gentler" training tool. Or if not openly promoted that way, it is insinuated - merely by their expressions of disapproval of other collars for the 'danger' of mis-use, but omitting the mention of any danger of mis-use of the head collar. IMO, if you say to one you should say to the other. Otherwise it eludes (or do I mean 'alludes'?) the reader to thinking otherwise ...... I don't know if that's the desired goal or not.

From what I have read on the misuse of a Halti appears to have more potential to cause injury than the traditional choke chain and therefore have no interest in using one. Dogs of a hard temperament dominant nature still require to feel some level of unpleasantness to understand the difference of working correctly and incorrectly. "Positive only" methods with some dogs results in them basically laughing at you and will do as they please, when they please!!!!.

[poodlefan]

The irony of the halti being promoted as "positive" is that many dogs find them highly uncomfortable, whether they are pulling or not.

I have yet to see a dog rolling on the ground clawing at its neck trying to get a check chain off.

"He'll get used to it" you'll be told in a cheerful voice by the PP brigade if your dog does this.... what crap. Some dogs are so depressed by the installation of these devices on their faces that they lack the drive to pull.

Positive my @rse..

[Guest Willow]

From what I have read on the misuse of a Halti appears to have more potential to cause injury than the traditional choke chain and therefore have no interest in using one. Dogs of a hard temperament dominant nature still require to feel some level of unpleasantness to understand the difference of working correctly and incorrectly. "Positive only" methods with some dogs results in them basically laughing at you and will do as they please, when they please!!!!.

They both have the potential to cause serious harm Rex

Positive methods, if implemented properly, will result in a dog working with you, not laughing at you.

Any method done incorrectly will result in a dog doing what it pleases, when it pleases.

[Guest Willow]

The irony of the halti being promoted as "positive" is that many dogs find them highly uncomfortable, whether they are pulling or not.

I have yet to see a dog rolling on the ground clawing at its neck trying to get a check chain off.

"He'll get used to it" you'll be told in a cheerful voice by the PP brigade if your dog does this.... what crap. Some dogs are so depressed by the installation of these devices on their faces that they lack the drive to pull.

Positive my @rse..

I'm a positive trainer poodlefan....I dislike headcollars intensly.

[poodlefan]

The irony of the halti being promoted as "positive" is that many dogs find them highly uncomfortable, whether they are pulling or not.

I have yet to see a dog rolling on the ground clawing at its neck trying to get a check chain off.

"He'll get used to it" you'll be told in a cheerful voice by the PP brigade if your dog does this.... what crap. Some dogs are so depressed by the installation of these devices on their faces that they lack the drive to pull.

Positive my @rse..

I'm a positive trainer poodlefan....I dislike headcollars intensly.

I am also a positive trainer Willow and I cannot comprehend how the halti has become the tool of choice for so many self confessed 'positive' trainers. Clearly they haven't thought too much about how they work and how many dogs find them highly aversive.

In case you ain't figured it out yet, I'm no halti fan. :wink:

Edited July 4, 2009 by poodlefan