Buying An Ecollar To Give Consistent Corrections

[kamuzz]

We have three GSDs, and my goal is to be able to take all three out together for a walk and still enjoy this.

My oldest boy is the softest. He walks fine on a martingale, and usually lags behind me, sniffing. Hunter, who is 10 months but physically the biggest, has the worst lead manners.

The other two I have successfully trained to get to the end of the lead and lean on their prong collars. (In horse terms, I have successfully taught them to lean on the bit )

Lately I have been walking them one out, and I'm finding it very hard to issue a correction. By the time I've worked out that I should be issuing a correction, the dog is already at the end of the lead. Then I can't issue a correction - there is no slack left to "pop" the lead. And when 30+ kgs of dog is leaning on the collar, they simply don't feel it.

This comment caught my eye, because I have been thinking about an ecollar:

Move away from all the training books, treats, methods etc and simply put your foot down. Like it or lump it puppies mum is in charge end of story. If you cannot give good corrections invest in e-collars.

But are ecollars really idiot-owner proof?

EFS

Edited July 3, 2009 by kamuzz

[Cosmolo]

If you have poor timing, an e collar is not going to be a cure all. I do find though that when given proper instruction, owners that i have recommended e collars to find it the easiest tool to use.

[MonElite]

Ecollars are not fool proof.

With any tool timing of a corretion is important.

[Nekhbet]

The other two I have successfully trained to get to the end of the lead and lean on their prong collars

did you mean to or accidentally? Your dogs should not be walking in front of you at all so you have plenty of time to issue corrections.

By the time I've worked out that I should be issuing a correction, the dog is already at the end of the lead.

use short half leads instead. what in particular do your dogs do? If they start even trying to walk past your leg you correct. Sounds like you are correcting after the action not before they get ahead. If you find the prong collar not working make sure its up higher on the neck and a little tighter.

If your dog cannot walk quietly on a loose leash by itself do not walk it in a group situation or it just snowballs. I wrote that comment because some people cannot issue good physical corrections of the right level or timing and an e-collar can help as Cosmolo said under instruction.

[kamuzz]

The other two I have successfully trained to get to the end of the lead and lean on their prong collars

did you mean to or accidentally? Your dogs should not be walking in front of you at all so you have plenty of time to issue corrections.

Maybe I should start another thread on where should your dog walk. Steve (K9 Force) takes the position that it doesn't matter where your dog walks, you are the alpha and that's that.

Mine walk in front of me. I wouldn't mind if I could get them to walk on a loose leash, but right now that is not happing.

And I find "popping" the lead has no effect when the dog is leaning into the collar. When I put the collars on, I do have them right under their ears so the collars should be sitting in the right place.

I wrote that comment because some people cannot issue good physical corrections of the right level or timing and an e-collar can help as Cosmolo said under instruction.

Well [long-suffering] Steve has tried his best to show me how to use a prong. And I find the timing really hard to get. Its fine if I use the 180 turn and walk the other way trick. But generally, I find that I don't get any response when I pop the lead.

Edited July 3, 2009 by kamuzz

[MolassesLass]

Do you "pop" with a prong collar though, I thought that was for check chains and that the pressure of the prong collar as it tightens is the correction.

[MonElite]

You certainly can pop the prong collar, Many dogs learn to walk on the prong and pull.

Its fine if I use the 180 turn and walk the other way trick.

Perhaps you need to do more of this. One dog at the time.

[Nekhbet]

I dont like them walking in front ever and they dont. They should be beside you at the most when out walking and I find that the dog will naturally gravitate to that position for me when I walk it, even clients dogs. How can they look to you or see what you are doing to follow if they are ahead? When i train the dogs will look to the client too to see if they are doing the right thing, for guidance and praise. Tracking, show etc is a different story.

Dont let them get ahead, do a 180 pop the dog and call them to follow you. The prong was not intended for dogs out front as the angle of the leash takes the pressure off the collar to give a decent correction.

as for timing - if the dog is about to walk ahead correct. simple. Dont say anything just let the correction come from the collar. Change your direction regularly and call the dog to follow and pay attention to you, leave the leash long and let the dog learn on its own to be a follower. If you let them out front, put a couple together and you have little chance of making them listen.

[Quickasyoucan]

You certainly can pop the prong collar, Many dogs learn to walk on the prong and pull.

Its fine if I use the 180 turn and walk the other way trick.

Perhaps you need to do more of this. One dog at the time.

I thought you were meant to pop to the side anyway or correct to the side, even for example with a martingale, rather than effectively trying to pull the dog back.

I hope that makes sense.

ETA: I find it much better to have the dog to my side. Sometimes if it is a low stim environment I will let him have a sniff and an amble in front for a while (all the time without pulling), but for normal walking I get much better results with having him by my side. Not to mention you are better prepared if you come across an aggro dog or (in my case a skateboard).

Kamuzz have you paired a command with your corrections. I find now if I say slow, Jake will automatically slacken off on the lead without the need for a correction about 80% of the time.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Quickasyoucan

[Erny]

And I find "popping" the lead has no effect when the dog is leaning into the collar.

And I'm not surprised. If the lead is tense, you need to 'yield' the lead (either put your arm forward or if it already is, lean your body in a little bit) so that there is a split moment's slack, to be able to correct properly.