Shetland Sheepdog

[MTD]

Just read thru all the questions and answers brilliant information

I couln't find an answer to my question sorry if someone has already answered

Before Maggie I had a sheltie who I loved to bits and had for 15 years

I got her at 5 months ( ex show dog that didn't quite make it ) and she had been kennelled for the first 5 months of her life. This could be the cause of her personality Anyway she was a gorgeous loving dog , very loyal but she prefered her own company. She would happily be with you but never seeked out attention she just did her own thing.

She didn't seek out laps or lounges or beds ect . She would just find a nice comfy spot and sleep there . We would be sitting down in the lounge watching Tv with the other dogs but Shannon would be somewhere else walking around doing things on her own , or sleeping in another room.

If you called her she would come have a pat / cuddle then go again.

Are they normally clingy following type dog that love cuddles and laps or do they prefer to find there own space ?

She never was shy always went up to strangers had a pat then went on her merry way.

I adore shelties and keep thinking that I would love another .

ETA. Just remembered another funny thing , she would even play ball on her own . She would get the ball and throw it in the air and chase it , and repeat this over and over . If we tried to play she would let us have the ball and then go off .

Edited September 3, 2009 by MTD

[cowanbree]

I think they adapt to the type of home they are in. At my house my shelties are always with me, follow me everywhere and sit on my knee at night but it has been interesting to watch visitors. I regularly have sheltie visitors, normally of my own breeding and in 2 cases in particular they have commented on how independent their dogs are yet at my house those same dogs were on my knee and following me everywhere.

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

MTD, one of ours can be quite an independent little missy and is often happy playing on her own, nor does she appear to seek the attention that our others do, mind you she's not quite one yet. She has been raised in our home and sleeps on my bed :D

[jr_inoz]

my girl generally loves being where I am - although she will go off and investigate things on her own.

She will jump up and share the couch with me - and whilst, not necessarily on my lap, will want to make sure that some part of her is touching me. Love that aspect.

[Loyal K9]

We have a sheltie for 9 months now. We got him when he was 10 months old.

He is aggressive toward other dogs except our small terrier and other shelties.

I wouldn't trust him with little kids.

He much prefer to stay home than going for a walk. Always anxious outside the house.

Inside he is a wonderfull dog, playfull and gentle.

My daugther loves to cuddle him.

Shame about his aggressive temperament, my wife finds walking him a bit stressfull.

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

Loyal K9, it's a shame that your sheltie has "aggressive" tendencies towards other dogs.

Perhaps he was not socialised much as a puppy?.

You say that he is OK with your small terrier and other shelties which is a good sign but aggressive towards other dogs.

I wonder to what extent you mean aggressive?.

Over the years I have observed with ours that they will play with other shelties and border collies, they will happily run with other breeds, but they DO NOT like contact playing from them.

Perhaps he has not been introduced to many children? Our two youngest have not met many children but when they do we insist that the child sits down quietly and let the dogs come up to them.

We run a farmstay and generally have young children who want to meet the dogs (we have seven).

We had one instance recently where a child screamed blue murder and the dogs were no where near them. Other times a child may come into our house yard, the dogs are fine until the child wants to run around, naturally the dogs think its play time and get excited.

A bonus is that your daughter can give him cuddles, so somewhere it has become a matter of trust.

It often comes down to a little time and patience on behalf of the dogs and the child

Edited September 15, 2009 by Hesapandabear

[Loyal K9]

Perhaps he was not socialised much as a puppy?.

I wonder to what extent you mean aggressive?.

A bonus is that your daughter can give him cuddles, so somewhere it has become a matter of trust.

It often comes down to a little time and patience on behalf of the dogs and the child

I don't know how he grew up as he was an ex show dog but got too big so the breeder sold it to us.

We made a mistake by not visiting the breeder to see him and his parents first. He was in Sydney and we were in Perth.

I was pre warned by a local breeder not to do this but I was assured that he was a well socialised dog.

Maybe the breeder didn't know about his aggression??? because he was only mixed with other shelties and didn't walk/socialise him outside the ring?

He is very aggressive. If he sees other dogs he will approach and pick a fight no matter the size.

2 weeks ago he saw another dog (Australian Shepherd) chasing a tennis ball (exercising) in a park. I know the owner, actually I accompanied the owner when he bought her as a puppy from a farm.

My Sheltie barked at him and she approached him. She sensed the aggression and barked back, it spooked my dog and he come off the lead.

He ran about 2 kms home and didn't listen to my call. On the way he stood in the middle of the road confused, a driver had to sopped his car and helped me to catch him.

He was completely spooked and decided to run home and completely ignoring my call. He also pooped himself.

It was a drama with about 8 people trying to stop him.

He shows aggression from being frigthen. Outside the house he walks with his tail down.

I can see slight improvement since we got him but I surrended to the fact but he will always be anxious.

Even when I come home I have to call him before he approaches me but he is much better than before.

My terrier jumps in excitement before I even open the garage door.

I try to calm him down by talking to him and rub his face gently regularly. He trusts us more and get quite cheeky sometimes.

Lately he likes to fetch ball at home.

At home he runs around playing chase with my terrier, tail up in excitement with happy face asking people to play.

You wouldn't be able to tell but he is so aggressive outside by looking at the way he plays at home.

Once I met a lady that used to breed shelties. She said she has never seen a sheltie as aggressive as ours. That is not comforting.

Also a few times he tried to nip people that visited us by approaching from behind. We, especially I, make sure that he knows that is not acceptable.

We have taken him to an obidience classes and walk him 2 - 3/week in winter and daily in summer.

Don't know what esle we can do.

[jr_inoz]

loyal k9 - i am sorry you have had that experience with what is normally a wonderful breed.

there are some good dog behaviourists around that could help you i would think. (maybe post in general discussion thread?) I am sure he would improve with very specific training.

i am careful with my sheltie around small children - not because she is aggressive at all - but because she likes to 'herd' them if they are running around. She gets excited. I make sure there are good rules. If the children are sitting quietly, I have to watch as she likes to lick.

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

Loyal K9,

This is not an easy reply as there could be several "matters" which are involved.

- As you say not meeting the parents of your boy, not knowing his bloodlines - was there perhaps a temperament problem somewhere?. I have yet to meet a sheltie as aggressive as you have said your dog is, but there is always a first in ANY breed

- A well-socialised show dog is not necessarily a well socialised dog and you obtained him when he was still a puppy. I am not by any means "having a go" at anyone but socialisation to me is not just taking a dog to a show but out and about into the wide world of all types of experiences. Walking down the street, playing at a park, running free on a beach, meeting other breeds of dogs, meeting people who will come up and pat the dog etc etc etc.

I am not a behavourist but from what you have said in your last post re the incident 2 weeks ago, I have a feeling that he is showing "fear aggressive" tendencies. He is "running scared" and doesn't know how to cope hence it comes out as aggression.

There is an excellent dog "trainer/behavourist" here on DOL who's pseudonym is Erny. Perhaps contact him/her and ask for some advice, they may know of someone in Perth you can help you.

Please let us know how you get on.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Hesapandabear

[Erny]

Hi LoyalK9.

Genetics play a part in how our dogs 'are' and whilst we can't remove genetics, we can work on making the best of the best genetics they have and countering the others. Your pup hasn't had the best start with the accidental trauma that occurred - must have been a daunting and very frightening experience (evidenced by the fear defecation). I feel for him.

We can't make up for insufficient or inappropriate early socialisation, but it is possible to help them become more confident about things in their life. And of course, the more confident we can help them be, the more able they are able to cope with different other things and so we can eventually open up their lives and broaden the horizon for them.

By the sounds of it, your dog needs careful help and you need help in being able to provide that to her. It makes it all less overwhelming (for both human and dog) if you come to know what to do and when, both from a pro-active and if necessary a reactive point of view.

The usual things such as leadership and desensitisation of course is going to be suggested - but given she is so fearful and aggression is involved, I would strongly recommend that you arrange to have a professional behaviourist (one who is well experienced in canine fear and fear aggression behaviours) to come out to see you both.

My previous girl (pictured in my avatar, bless her cotton socks) was adopted and came to me very fearful of unfamiliar people and aggressive to unfamiliar dogs. Admittedly she never defecated (perhaps because I never allowed her to be in a position where she could or would feel so threatened/frightened) but her fear was more than mild. Shaking, cowering, eyes wide like saucers, salivating .... to name a few. All dogs are individuals of course, but I can tell you that with work and understanding she developed to a dog who whilst always tentative with unfamiliar people, was able to cope with a pat (and sometimes even asked for one) and was also able to manage a greeting with friendly dogs. To recognise her stress levels diminish was a comfort, not only to me but of course, to her. When I adopted her, she was 7 years old.

Of course, I've worked with many varied 'frightened' dogs since then with varying degrees of success - but ALWAYS with improvement. Sometimes progress is slow, sometimes surprisingly fast. Much depends on the individual dog and the individual owner, who of course is the one who puts in the time and effort to help their fearful dog.

The point of this is that it is highly possible that you will be able to apply strategies to help increase her confidence and her ability to cope with the world. I don't know where you reside but if you would give an idea as to your locality we can make some suggestions for known behaviourists that are perhaps close enough to you. I generally work the South Eastern suburbs of Melbourne/Victoria. Where necessary I travel a fair distance although it works out more economical if I am able to recommend other behaviourist/s closer in to the client.

No-one can take the genetics out of your dog. No one can change the traumatic experiences your dog has already encountered. But a good desensitisation and confidence building plan and strategy can be structured to help you help her, if you would like the assistance.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Erny

[cowanbree]

Loyal K9 can I ask how long you have had this dog?

Have you talked to the breeder about the issues? It sounds to me as if the dog is not a fit to your house and personally if it was a dog I bred I would be wanting it back. Shelties are a reserved herding breed and they are not for everyone.

[Loyal K9]

Thank you for all the reply.

Some dog owners who I regularly meet at our local park think that something must have happened to him during the first 8 months of his life.

Maybe he was attacked by another dog.

Erny, I live in Perth (southern suburb near the city).

Could you recommend someone that can help him.

Today we walked our terrier without the Sheltie.

It was a much more pleasant walk.

She ran around with other dogs and I didin't have to constantly concentrate on the Sheltie.

[jr_inoz]

Thank you for all the reply.

Some dog owners who I regularly meet at our local park think that something must have happened to him during the first 8 months of his life.

Maybe he was attacked by another dog.

Erny, I live in Perth (southern suburb near the city).

Could you recommend someone that can help him.

Today we walked our terrier without the Sheltie.

It was a much more pleasant walk.

She ran around with other dogs and I didin't have to constantly concentrate on the Sheltie.

try a post in the general discussion thread - you will probably get some good recommendations for dog behaviour trainers in perth.

Hope things go well with your boy.

[Erny]

Erny, I live in Perth (southern suburb near the city).

Could you recommend someone that can help him.

Although I don't personally know her work, she has come highly recommended by a few reliable sources ....................

Kathy Kopellis McLeod

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

Loyal K9, hopefully you may receive some help :D

[Loyal K9]

Thank you.

I will call her tomorrow.

Hopefully he can be fixed for his own benefit and ours too.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Loyal K9

[Tali]

Hope all goes well Loyal K9. Generally, I have found my sheltie and the others I have met to be slightly shy of other dogs (unless they are on their own "turf" of course). Not aggressive at all, so while I don't doubt what you have experience, I don't think it is representative of the breed generally.

I have owned my sheltie for 2 1/2 years, and am planning on getting another soon. She is smart, fun, playful, but also has her place on the couch or near my feet on the floor when we are being lazy at home. She has won over a number of dog shy children at my kids school, and withstands being mobbed by little people on a daily basis very well.

I've become an absolute convert to the breed, and hope that you manage to retrain your boy so you can enjoy him. As you say, the missing 8 months of his history may explain a lot, but it is great you are taking a forward looking approach. Good luck!

[MTD]

Thanks to TashaBailey and Elenbah for showing me pics of their gorgeous girls before and after coat drop in the shelti thread

When showing is the coat a big factor then ? or does the judge take into account the coat dropping ?

Also with the ears , do they need a bit of encouragment to tip over ? or are most natural . My shelti had stand up ears ( obviously a fault ) but i really like the tip over ears , they give more character

[TashaBailey]

MTD,

Coat helps complete the overall picture that you are presenting to the judge. An out of coat sheltie as my girl Jane is at the moment is is almost like a collie smooth along her back and sides at the moment. She would be penalised because she is lacking the double coat at the moment. If there is another comparable speciman there on the day you would find that the dog that is in coat will go up.

As for ears they have a mind of their own in Shelties. You will probably find that most ears need a bit of assistance with either weighting or bracing (for a heavy ear) to ensure that you get the nicely tipped ear. Some breeders no longer take a chance with the ears and they brace and weight to ensure that they get the ear set that they want. As a result it would be hard to determine whether you have a dog with a natuarlly correct ear set or whether it has been helped. Jane from my first litter has reasonable ears that I do not touch. That being said she went though a stage for about a month when she was teething when one ear was heavy, as a result we glued the ears for about 2 to 3 weeks and have never touched them since. My boy we weighted from 4 months to 12 months and have not weighted since. My older girl we have to keep weighted between shows as she has one ear that has a tendancy to prick. My young girl has one ear that tends to be heavy so we have to keep her braced between shows at the moment. Hopefully by 12 months the ear will have settled and we will not have to worry about it anymore.

When I place my puppies out to pet homes I explain to the new owners about ears and also provide them with some goop to put on the ears should they prick during the teething stage particularly if they prefer the look with the tipped ear. They are told to get onto it straight away because if you leave it too long you have less chance of correcting it.

TB

[TashaBailey]

Loyal K9

I second what Cowanbree suggested earlier. You do not seem happy with the dog. Sometimes a dog does not gel with a particular person or situation. Please contact the breeder as I am sure they would be horrified that this dog is not fitting into your household and meeting your expectations. The breeders that I know want what is best for the dog and the current situation does not sound like it is best for this particular dog.

If it is the dog that I am thinking of he used to go to training where I take my dogs so was well socialised, as well as walked around the street up to the shops etc. I saw him quite a few times and never saw any signs of agression. Mum and Dad had fantastic outgoing temperaments as did the other pups that I have seen from that litter.

Give the breeder a call, that is one of the reasons why you buy from a registered breeder, in that we should only be a phonecall away to assist with any issues.

TB