Labrador Retriever

[auto]

this may be abit :offtopic but had an unregisted breeder ask me to use one of my dogs for stud. and when i said i wouldnt and cant do it for code of ethics. she said but i do not want to register the pups or anything i just need a dog to put over me bitch . The same thing, the bitch needs to have a litter of pups before i spey her.

[Miranda]

Bring on an ANKC endorsed, Sate Controlled Breeder Accreditation scheme IMO.

Picture a system that "appraises" the skill of individual breeders based on:

- years of experience

- customer feedback

- level of visible hereditary defect testing

- performance of dogs bred in chosen fields of endeavour.

Picture a system that allocates a Bronze, Silver, Gold or Platnum status to individual breeders.

Picture a system that requires that a beginner must receive endorsement from a Gold/Platnum breeder in a mentoring role.

Only then will the current "minefield" confronting puppy buyers be able to be negotiated with some degree of confidence.

blackdog

[MissMonaro]

this may be abit :offtopic but had an unregisted breeder ask me to use one of my dogs for stud. and when i said i wouldnt and cant do it for code of ethics. she said but i do not want to register the pups or anything i just need a dog to put over me bitch . The same thing, the bitch needs to have a litter of pups before i spey her.

I think this person is doing a bit of a phone around with the same story.

[Steve]

When you guys have ultrasounds done on your bitches for seeing if they are pregnant is she scanned lying down or standing?

Ive got a lab bitch here which was mated before she arrived here in foster care. She had an ultra sound before she was flown down and it showed no pregnancy and the vet explained her teats etc as a phantom. If this is a phantom she sure is good at it and she is growing more round every day. Everything I know about how dogs look when they are pregnant is telling me she is and Ive seen a lot of them. One breeder of labs has told me she may be pregnant but the scan was done wrong because she was laying on one side and its more usual to do a scan on a lab standing.

I guess time will tell if she is pregnant but thought Id ask the queston here. I had visitors here 2 days ago - all experienced breeders and every one said "that bitch is pregnant"

Edited October 23, 2009 by Steve

[mikelli]

When you guys have ultrasounds done on your bitches for seeing if they are pregnant is she scanned lying down or standing?

Ive got a lab bitch here which was mated before she arrived here in foster care. She had an ultra sound before she was flown down and it showed no pregnancy and the vet explained her teats etc as a phantom. If this is a phantom she sure is good at it and she is growing more round every day. Everything I know about how dogs look when they are pregnant is telling me she is and Ive seen a lot of them. One breeder of labs has told me she may be pregnant but the scan was done wrong because she was laying on one side and its more usual to do a scan on a lab standing.

I guess time will tell if she is pregnant but thought Id ask the queston here. I had visitors here 2 days ago - all experienced breeders and every one said "that bitch is pregnant"

Only ultrasounds we have had done the bitch is lying on her back, down certre line.

Some of them are very good at the phantom thing......friend of mine had a lab girl that got fat, had milk dripping out and made a nest, still no babies, she had not even been mated, she went through this performance every time she had a season until they got her desexed. Poor thing must have been desparate to have babies.

If she is that big, you should be able to feel something moving if you hold your hand on her for a while if she will lie still for you...

Edited October 23, 2009 by mikelli

[Steve]

This one was definitely mated.I cant feel anything moving but she feels pregnant.

[auto]

this may be abit :offtopic but had an unregisted breeder ask me to use one of my dogs for stud. and when i said i wouldnt and cant do it for code of ethics. she said but i do not want to register the pups or anything i just need a dog to put over me bitch . The same thing, the bitch needs to have a litter of pups before i spey her.

I think this person is doing a bit of a phone around with the same story.

This was in person, miss monaro

[Joan of Arc]

This one was definitely mated.I cant feel anything moving but she feels pregnant.

I've had scans done using both methods and have had positive and accurate results (including predicted numbers) from both methods.

I have had some corker of phantoms as well - just like Mikelli explained - right down to the "look quick I'm in labour" actions. So much so that I actually took her to the vets and said "are you sure she's not pregnant?"

[MissMonaro]

this may be abit :offtopic but had an unregisted breeder ask me to use one of my dogs for stud. and when i said i wouldnt and cant do it for code of ethics. she said but i do not want to register the pups or anything i just need a dog to put over me bitch . The same thing, the bitch needs to have a litter of pups before i spey her.

I think this person is doing a bit of a phone around with the same story.

This was in person, miss monaro

Must be a few of them on the loose at the moment.......wanting to breed xmas puppies no doubt.

When you guys have ultrasounds done on your bitches for seeing if they are pregnant is she scanned lying down or standing?

Ive got a lab bitch here which was mated before she arrived here in foster care. She had an ultra sound before she was flown down and it showed no pregnancy and the vet explained her teats etc as a phantom. If this is a phantom she sure is good at it and she is growing more round every day. Everything I know about how dogs look when they are pregnant is telling me she is and Ive seen a lot of them. One breeder of labs has told me she may be pregnant but the scan was done wrong because she was laying on one side and its more usual to do a scan on a lab standing.

How far along would she be Steve ?

I've only ever 2 ultrasounded for differing reasons ......but both were lying down on the table. The 2nd bitch we know was mated, but didnt get fat at all. Ultrasound showed only 1 puppy (which some might remember was my little hairless girl). The first bitch we never felt the babies move and she hid them well for a small dog...but she had 7 (6 surviving).

But on a side note.....I also have a bitch that has/had full on phantoms. So much so that her teats would swell up and the milk would drip out of them.

Earlier this year I had her desexed as she was due in season again, and the vet who did the op said there is no way this bitch was coming into season again.....she had cysts in her uterine horns. She said it was like for all intent that the bitch thought they were babies. Turns out we were lucky we made the call when we did.

[MissMonaro]

This one was definitely mated.I cant feel anything moving but she feels pregnant.

I've had scans done using both methods and have had positive and accurate results (including predicted numbers) from both methods.

I have had some corker of phantoms as well - just like Mikelli explained - right down to the "look quick I'm in labour" actions. So much so that I actually took her to the vets and said "are you sure she's not pregnant?"

We had a similar thing with a staffy bitch we had (ok, it was before I saw the light of the purebred dog world ) and we had mated her and she went through the whole thing, right up to the panting and nesting in the yard.....when nothing happened, we rushed her to the vet, and turns out she wasnt even pregnant.

[Steve]

They think she will be due around the first of October which would have made her about 4 weeks gone when she had the ultrasound if she is pregnant.She was sitting with her tummy on the cool concrete today and she looked like a beached whale.

[MissMonaro]

I'm hoping you mean the 1st December she is due.

How far on was she when she had the ultrasound ? Labs can hide the pups up under the ribs which making it hard to get an early ultrasound result. I would of thought the best time to ultrasound would be now at around 4 weeks.

Edited October 23, 2009 by MissMonaro

[blackdog]

this may be abit :offtopic but had an unregisted breeder ask me to use one of my dogs for stud. and when i said i wouldnt and cant do it for code of ethics. she said but i do not want to register the pups or anything i just need a dog to put over me bitch . The same thing, the bitch needs to have a litter of pups before i spey her.

AUTO - Received a call yesterday morning with "exactly" the same story.

Push back from me was the same - with a few extras thrown in.

Won't repeat verbatum what I said but the bottom line was this:

"Why are you and other backyard breeders like you so hellbent on ruining our wonderful breed".

Not surprisingly - she hung up!!!!!!!

[Steve]

I'm hoping you mean the 1st December she is due.

How far on was she when she had the ultrasound ? Labs can hide the pups up under the ribs which making it hard to get an early ultrasound result. I would of thought the best time to ultrasound would be now at around 4 weeks.

Sorry 1st of November

[MissMonaro]

I'm hoping you mean the 1st December she is due.

How far on was she when she had the ultrasound ? Labs can hide the pups up under the ribs which making it hard to get an early ultrasound result. I would of thought the best time to ultrasound would be now at around 4 weeks.

Sorry 1st of November

Ohhhh I misread.......in that case thats only a week away. You would of thought then if she had an ultrasound at 4 weeks, then they would of saw something if she was pregnant.

[Sahla]

I'm hoping you mean the 1st December she is due.

How far on was she when she had the ultrasound ? Labs can hide the pups up under the ribs which making it hard to get an early ultrasound result. I would of thought the best time to ultrasound would be now at around 4 weeks.

Sorry 1st of November

Ohhhh I misread.......in that case thats only a week away. You would of thought then if she had an ultrasound at 4 weeks, then they would of saw something if she was pregnant.

In the Golden Retriever thread this happened as well with one of the breeders. We were actually counting down to her due date and we thought she was in labour only to find out it was a phantom pregnancy (or she had reabsorbed the pups) even after she had been tested as positive previously at the vets.

[zenchel]

I'm hoping you mean the 1st December she is due.

How far on was she when she had the ultrasound ? Labs can hide the pups up under the ribs which making it hard to get an early ultrasound result. I would of thought the best time to ultrasound would be now at around 4 weeks.

Sorry 1st of November

Ohhhh I misread.......in that case thats only a week away. You would of thought then if she had an ultrasound at 4 weeks, then they would of saw something if she was pregnant.

Throw the ultrasound machine away and XRAY her - not only will it confirm or otherwise her pregnancy, if she is pregnant you will know how many pups she's got. In my experience ultrasound after five, maybe five and a half weeks is a waste of time in inexperienced hands, which the majority of GP vets are re ultrasound. After six weeks xray is the way to go.

Sylvia

[blacklabrador]

3. Lack of "new" dedicated breed enthusiasts coming into the breed and staying for the long haul.

We are relatively new to the breeding side of things and we have found that sadly there just feels a real lack of "genuine/honest" people to talk too and/or help/mentor new breeders.

Dont get me wrong, there are a small amount of breeders that have been helpful to us and for which we have been most appreciative....however, we have also found that some breeders are all too quick to cut each others throats, and trying to find information about certain "lines" is like banging your head against a brick wall at times. This is very disheartening and also why many probably don't stay in the breed, or drop out of the system, and breed "pets".

There's a problem and there's the reason. BINGO!

Perhaps some newbies should write a book on how what elements are required for effective mentoring. I actually think it has little to do with the amount of experience a breeder has and more to do with having the right personality type. There is far too much infighting, backstabbing and poor sportsmanship going on. The true role of a mentor is not to give advice and then whinge when someone doesn't take it. It's about being involved without being attached and to give genuine support with no personal agenda.

So I guess if people in the breed do want newbies to hang around there should be some responsibility taken for the environment which is created. Some hard work at genuine, ethical mentoring would go a very long way I suspect. Newbies don't leave because they aren't winning, they leave because they aren't enjoying themselves.

MM I have seen you do it tough for a long time and I have great respect for your persistance. You've worked hard for your success.

[blacklabrador]

Nice to read someone else agrees with me that Labs are not destructive devils - mine have never destroyed anything. Its all about training and boundaries and keeping them occupied.

And yes training a lab to be well behaved and then owning a well trained Lab is a very rewarding experience

Mercedes I know that one of my fears is that people buy a Lab pup thinking that they don't have to train it beyond puppy school. This is because they know someone's lab who is beautiful and docile (and probably older than 6!) so therefore think they are buying a ready made, beautifully behaved dog. Many labs are "puppies" for a long time and many youngsters are overexcitable and badly behaved due to lack of training. I have had many labs surrendered at around 12 months of age - all of which have fit the "destructive, overexcitable" label due to inexperienced or ignorant owners. A month of two of training has set them straight and I've been able to rehome a reasonably behaved dog. I think most breeders would prefer that potential owners were well informed when they buy a puppy that Labs, like all dogs, require initial and ongoing training.

[blackdog]

3. Lack of "new" dedicated breed enthusiasts coming into the breed and staying for the long haul.

We are relatively new to the breeding side of things and we have found that sadly there just feels a real lack of "genuine/honest" people to talk too and/or help/mentor new breeders.

Dont get me wrong, there are a small amount of breeders that have been helpful to us and for which we have been most appreciative....however, we have also found that some breeders are all too quick to cut each others throats, and trying to find information about certain "lines" is like banging your head against a brick wall at times. This is very disheartening and also why many probably don't stay in the breed, or drop out of the system, and breed "pets".

There's a problem and there's the reason. BINGO!

Perhaps some newbies should write a book on how what elements are required for effective mentoring. I actually think it has little to do with the amount of experience a breeder has and more to do with having the right personality type. There is far too much infighting, backstabbing and poor sportsmanship going on. The true role of a mentor is not to give advice and then whinge when someone doesn't take it. It's about being involved without being attached and to give genuine support with no personal agenda.

So I guess if people in the breed do want newbies to hang around there should be some responsibility taken for the environment which is created. Some hard work at genuine, ethical mentoring would go a very long way I suspect. Newbies don't leave because they aren't winning, they leave because they aren't enjoying themselves.

MM I have seen you do it tough for a long time and I have great respect for your persistance. You've worked hard for your success.

Maybe you should take up your own challenge Pointeeblab - write a book.

I would be the first to buy it because I am always curious to learn what makes dog people tick.

I guess the quality of the mentoring is in the eyes of the receiver.

If newbies are continually "fooled" into taking and acting upon bad advice there is little else to be done.

The minute somebody else steps in and tries to "lend a hand" or offer "an alternate point of view" - guess what happens.

That breeder is slammed by the newbies mentor as being interfering, or worse - is slandered behind his back.

So maybe the newbie needs to take some responsibility for filtering what is (or what isn't) good advice.

And just regarding your suggestion that newbies are leaving because they aren't enjoying themselves?

Like I said in my initial post - the long haul means exactly that - the long haul.

Some have what it takes - others quite clearly don't.