ruthless Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 My spirit's officially broken It's just one thing after another with my dogs :rolleyes: This is the latest ... I've been walking all four dogs together for as long as we've had Trixie. Due to the increasing amount of roaming dogs in our area I decided it was safer to walk two and two. I've tried this before and I always revert back to all four cause Chopper throws tantrums when I don't bring him. I can leave all of them at home and go places, but if I take any of the others and not him he screams the house down. I hate to hear him so distressed. I've let him win so many times, but I've been ignoring his behaviour for the last couple of weeks, cause quite frankly walking two and two is a whole lot more pleasant for me anyway, even if it takes twice as long. I take him and Ivan first cause I dread to think how awful he'll be if I take the other two first. Yesterday his screaming was particularly awful so I went back in and put the anti-barking collar on. Today I put it on him again when I left. It doesn't stop him though, I actually think he's learned to make such a high pitched noise that it doesn't set it off. I came home 40 minutes later to this sight In this one you can see how he's thrashed around so much he's moved his crate that far from the wall. The end facing the wall is the front door of his crate. That crate's only 6 months old We've already had a barking complaint, so I don't want to leave him in his run and it's early and he makes too much noise. As you can see there's shit on the ground in the first pic. He did a pooh before his walk, so I'm quite sure he wasn't trying to escape cause he needed to go to the toilet so badly. He's shit in his crate before when he needed to go and we were out. When I got home he wasn't in the slightest bit distressed he just got out of his crate and went outside to lie in the sun. I fully admit that I've created this monster by letting him get his way too many times, so no need to finger point. What I would like is suggestions on how to prevent this from ever happening again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I don't know what to say except OMG! . I hope someone has some good advice for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) Crap, Ruthless!!! Is Chopper's mouth ok? This sounds very much like (but I'm not concluding anything) Separation Anxiety - the attachment being to the other dogs (assuming that he's fine when they are all there, regardless of whether you are home or not). The shit on the ground is a sign of high stress. Of course, not to mention the damage to himself through his efforts to escape. What is Chopper like if someone (your OH?) is home with Chopper when you take out two of the others? What's he like if you only take 1 of the dogs out? Is his behaviour worse when one particular dog goes, or doesn't he discriminate? Edited June 25, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Is that blood on the floor? If he's that distressed that he's emptying his bowels as well it sounds like true separation anxiety - often over diagnosed for sure but that really looks serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Ruth, I don't have any suggestions for you, I just wanted to say I'm sorry you had to come home to such an awful sight I hope you can figure out a solution that works for all of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IggiePiggie Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 My spirit's officially broken It's just one thing after another with my dogs :rolleyes: This is the latest ...I've been walking all four dogs together for as long as we've had Trixie. Due to the increasing amount of roaming dogs in our area I decided it was safer to walk two and two. I've tried this before and I always revert back to all four cause Chopper throws tantrums when I don't bring him. I can leave all of them at home and go places, but if I take any of the others and not him he screams the house down. I hate to hear him so distressed. I've let him win so many times, but I've been ignoring his behaviour for the last couple of weeks, cause quite frankly walking two and two is a whole lot more pleasant for me anyway, even if it takes twice as long. I take him and Ivan first cause I dread to think how awful he'll be if I take the other two first. Yesterday his screaming was particularly awful so I went back in and put the anti-barking collar on. Today I put it on him again when I left. It doesn't stop him though, I actually think he's learned to make such a high pitched noise that it doesn't set it off. I came home 40 minutes later to this sight In this one you can see how he's thrashed around so much he's moved his crate that far from the wall. The end facing the wall is the front door of his crate. That crate's only 6 months old We've already had a barking complaint, so I don't want to leave him in his run and it's early and he makes too much noise. As you can see there's shit on the ground in the first pic. He did a pooh before his walk, so I'm quite sure he wasn't trying to escape cause he needed to go to the toilet so badly. He's shit in his crate before when he needed to go and we were out. When I got home he wasn't in the slightest bit distressed he just got out of his crate and went outside to lie in the sun. I fully admit that I've created this monster by letting him get his way too many times, so no need to finger point. What I would like is suggestions on how to prevent this from ever happening again. Woah, was there any damage to his mouth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 can you trick him? I mean put all 4 in the run, then take Chopper & Ivan out, then bring them back inside through the front & sneak out the back with the other 2 so he doesn't know you're out? By the sounds of it he is too distressed to be interested in a big marrow bone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Oh ..... and whilst we wait for your response (I appreciate you'd be busy cleaning up), think about contacting the crate manufacturer. Perhaps they can provide a replacement door to the crate? Seems from the photos that's the only part that is damaged, so you might be able to salvage with minimum expense. The crate at least did its job. I'm somewhat more concerned for Chopper at the moment though, as I'm sure you are as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 Crap, Ruthless!!! Is Chopper's mouth ok? This sounds very much like (but I'm not concluding anything) Separation Anxiety - the attachment being to the other dogs (assuming that he's fine when they are all there, regardless of whether you are home or not). The shit on the ground is a sign of high stress. Of course, not to mention the damage to himself through his efforts to escape. What is Chopper like if someone (your OH?) is home with Chopper when you take out two of the others? What's he like if you only take 1 of the dogs out? Is his behaviour worse when one particular dog goes, or doesn't he discriminate? He seems fine. He's still lying in the sun. On his back, perfectly happy. He's outside with Ivan, but he was on his own for about an hour and there wasn't a peep out of him. The blood seems to have come from his mouth, but there doesn't look like there's any damage. He has a few lumps on his back, maybe from banging against the crate, no wounds though. Ivan's pretty much the boss of the four of them so I thought leaving them together was the best solution. I've never noticed if his attachment is to one of the other dogs in particular. Maybe Angel, they're thick as thieves. If my OH had been here he wouldn't have done that. There would've been some pacing and whinging, but definitely not a full on spazz out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 can you trick him?I mean put all 4 in the run, then take Chopper & Ivan out, then bring them back inside through the front & sneak out the back with the other 2 so he doesn't know you're out? By the sounds of it he is too distressed to be interested in a big marrow bone? It's not Ruthless that Chopper worries about. It's when (any of?) the other dogs leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 can you trick him?I mean put all 4 in the run, then take Chopper & Ivan out, then bring them back inside through the front & sneak out the back with the other 2 so he doesn't know you're out? It's not Ruthless that Chopper worries about. It's when (any of?) the other dogs leave. yes, I know, by "you're out", I meant Ruth AND the other dogs. I assume that the 4 of them are not always together in & around the house (if they are that is the first thing I would be addressing). If he doesn't realise the other dogs have left, he would have no reason to go insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 Nah, I cleaned up and checked him out before I got on here. He's fine. Good thinking on contacting the crate manufacturers My trainer friend said to keep going with the new routine or else he'll think he's won and to muzzle him in his crate, although that wouldn't stop him throwing himself around inside it. He's met Chopper and he didn't think it was SA, more likely a tantrum cause he likes to get his way. It was a very quick phonecalll though and he hadn't seen the pictures or been told about the pooh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) Ivan's pretty much the boss of the four of them so I thought leaving them together was the best solution. I've never noticed if his attachment is to one of the other dogs in particular. Maybe Angel, they're thick as thieves. If my OH had been here he wouldn't have done that. There would've been some pacing and whinging, but definitely not a full on spazz out. Glad he seems to be ok. I think what I'd do is first check out if the attachment is stronger to one dog in particular. That may actually be to one (or both .... we don't know yet) of the dogs that he perceives are lower ranking. Try setting up a web-cam, where you can observe his behaviour after returning. Although it'd be great to have all the mod-con techno instruments where you could watch him as though on TV whilst you were out, perhaps a more modest albeit dreconian way of knowing if he was getting himself into trouble would be something along the lines of a baby monitor, where you could at least hear whether the behaviour was so traumatic as to be self-harming. Obviously, the easiest is going to be if you can determine which dog he becomes the most frantic when he/she leaves and work it so that you walk that dog with Chopper. If the problem continues to be extreme without resolution though, it might be necessary to consult with a Vet/behaviourist and to use suitable drugs to compliment behaviour rehabilitation training. I don't want or like to jump to 'drug use' too quickly and I always try to obtain resolution without them as might still be able to be done here. But I am very concerned at the self-harm element to Chopper's behaviour and that might be where drugs, at least initially, might be helpful. Anyway .... that's a bit further off at the moment, until you are able to determine whether there is a stronger attachment level to one or other of the dogs. I'd also be doing a check on your leadership. Is there any room where you think Chopper might not perceive you as a strong but calm, assertive and consistent leader? Edited June 25, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ons Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 poor Chopper have you tried leaving him with a different combination I had four dogs last week so was doing the two first then two next. Normally I would walk Flash and Tilly first then onslow and Lizzy. Not a problem, ons and Lizzy would get locked outside, then when I came home Flash and Tilly in the house and go round the side and get Ons and Lizzy. Flash didn't make a fuss at all. Last week Flash and Lizzy were playing outside before the walks so I locked the door and take Ons and Tilly. Well I could hear Flash howling loudly over two blocks away I wonder if as he is protective of me and Tilly that he was concerned, or he was just being a spoilt brat. Anyway getting back to topic, i'm just wondering if Chopper was left at home with a different combination he may react differently. Otherwise he may have to come on all walks to reduce self harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Sorry- I wouldn't muzzle him- what if the muzzle gets hooked on something? If he gets even more stressed being muzzled, and thrashes around more.. Poor Choppa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pandii Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 How awful for you, I have this with Dante, now Ty is gone, she cant handle being left alone. Will be seeing if I can use any tips you get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) What if the problem is his attachment to Angel? What then? I can get up early enough to walk Ivan and Trixie first while OH is getting ready for work and then take Chopper and Angel out together. It's not really solving the problem though, just getting around it. I'd also be doing a check on your leadership. Is there any room where you think Chopper might not perceive you as a strong but calm, assertive and consistent leader? That's why I feel so totally pissed off. I feel like I stick to all the rules ... they sit and wait for their food, they don't barge through doors before me, they're not allowed on the furniture without being invited, they have to walk beside me ... it's just rules rules rules and no fun. I'm struggling to find any enjoyment in owning all these dogs ETA That sounds awful. I love them to bits and they make me laugh several times a day. I'm just feeling a bit defeated at the moment. I'll snap out of it Edited June 25, 2009 by ruthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottnBullies Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) Sorry- I wouldn't muzzle him- what if the muzzle gets hooked on something? If he gets even more stressed being muzzled, and thrashes around more..Poor Choppa. I agree, no muzzle, when unattended! Maybe he's not getting enough physical release on his walks, have you tried running him to the point of exhaustion before put back In his crate, he'll be too tired to do anything and maybe just sleep for the 40 mins or so that you take the other two out I do It with Zeiba, and she's a lot more calmer when she's exhausted! It just releases all that energy that Is otherwise built up and then turns to be destructive energy. ETA: I always think a tired dog Is a good dog! lol Edited June 25, 2009 by RottnBullies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenzied1 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I have no advice for you Ruth. I am so sorry this has happened. Poor Chopper and poor you. Take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) He's never exhausted! I've tried walking for 40 mins and throwing the ball until he can't run anymore but he still screams when I leave him. I'll try him with a backpack and see if it helps. I guess it's worth a try! Edited June 25, 2009 by ruthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now