Dominant Puppy

[Oscar (AmBull)]

I am a little concerned with my 12 week old puppy’s dominant behaviour. He is an Amstaff and as such we are aware that they do have some aggression issues when not socialised appropriately. We currently have him in 2 puppy schools and will be looking to do obedience school at 16 weeks.

In the first puppy school there was small off leash times, which was assessed as each pup came off the lead one by one, timid pups first etc, Oscar was last off the lead. He went straight for the biggest pup, which was a Great Dane. When I say ‘straight for’, it was not in an aggressive manner, just playing. They had a bit of a dominance play around, with the Great Dane winning out in the end I think, well from what I could gather. But he appeared to try and dominate all the pups in the school, which he did, except for the Dane I think.

The second puppy school there hasn’t been off leash time, however that class is made up of 3 small timid pups, Oscar and another larger breed. The two larger breeds were down one end with the small the other. Oscar played with this puppy and dominated him as well. Holding him down, lying on top of him etc.

It is all harmless play from what I can see (no growling or aggression from any of the pups involved). He also attempted to hump some of the pups, and has done it to me once, which I was told is a dominance thing.

So to get to my point, am I being too concerned with these behaviours?

Will the socialisation help him overcome his dominance?

What happens when he is an adult and comes across another dominant adult? Will he attempt to dominate that dog if it does not back down? Will this domination come in the form of a fight?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[3Woofs]

My Amstaff was the same.

At puppy pre-school he would get on top of the other pups and play very rough and pin them down.

I made sure he was removed as soon as he did this so would learn he could only play if it was nice play.

At 5-6 months he wasn't dominant at all and would submit to all the other dogs and even other pups.

Now at 8 months he plays well with other dogs including other entire males (while on lead), however I watch their behaviour closely and remove him if the play is getting too rough.

I thought I had the devil puppy. He would mouth non stop and I had numerous shredded pants.

I just made sure I was firm and consistent with him and now he is such a gentle laid back goof.

[3Woofs]

Oh forgot to add that I don't let Buster play with dogs that try to dominate him or dogs that are intimidated by his puppiness.

I believe that if challenged most amstaffs wouldn't back down and I'm not willing to put him in that situation.

In my case socialising has worked so far but I know this can change and he could become dog aggressive as he matures.

[Sandra777]

I think you have to look at it from the other point of view. There will ALWAYS be more dominant dogs and more submissive dogs, this is the basic nature of the beast.

It could be that you just happen to have got a dominant one. It could also be that he was the strongest in his litter and has learned to be confident of his ability to get his own way by physical force.

His reaction to bigger pups which are physically stronger than him will quickly show you if he is genuinely dominant (which has nothing to do with physical size) or is just a big physical bully.

There's not a lot of point trying to change his view of the world IF he is hardwired to be dominant. Spend time learning to read him, and figuring out how you are going to manage this behaviour when he's older. Yes, if he is dominant and when fully mature meets another dominant dog and neither backs down a fight will almost always ensue - but it is entirely up to you to avoid these situations....IF he is genuinely dominant of course

IMO it's very important that he gets to socialise with adults, perhaps more so than with puppies as adults will teach him not to try to physically dominant them, will teach him the right appeasement signals and will teach him very quickly how to speak dog and not be a little brat (if this is what he is being).

As he gets a bit older allow him to mingle with adult dogs - especially sensible fully grown bitches, they are just great at teaching little upstarts good manners. The worst thing you could do IMO is allow him to continue to play with puppies he is able to physically terrorise without the balancing influence of dogs he has to mind his manners with. Yep, he needs to play and have fun, but he also needs to visit boring old Aunty Etiquette now and then!

[Cosmolo]

I think the instructor of your puppy schools should be guiding you very clearly with regard to such an issue- you have your pup in a critical period of development and you can influence some behaviours- however its not possible to know exactly how or if there's anything to be concerned about without seeing whats going on. In the meantime, control the interactions with the other pups- especially the smaller or timid puppies.

[persephone]

T

here's not a lot of point trying to change his view of the world IF he is hardwired to be dominant. Spend time learning to read him, and figuring out how you are going to manage this behaviour when he's older. Yes, if he is dominant and when fully mature meets another dominant dog and neither backs down a fight will almost always ensue - but it is entirely up to you to avoid these situations....IF he is genuinely dominant of course smile.gif

Good point

[Oscar (AmBull)]

Thanks so much for all the responses. At both puppy schools the instructors have told us that if something were to happen between the pups that they will handle it. That we were to remain seated while they dealt with it. I watch him like a hawk in both classes, as I don’t want him bullying other pups and ruining their experience. He doesn’t seem to stick with one pup very long he moves onto the next, he just gets so excited I think a lot of it is his boisterous nature. He stays pretty clear of the smaller pups as well. I think that if I see him doing something that I don’t think is right I will remove him from play, whether it is what the instructor wants or not, after all he is my pup and I can’t afford to get this wrong.

He will be desexed at 5 ½ months, as that is when we have been told is the best time.

There were three pups in his litter and they were all very confident and playful, 2 males and a female. He didn’t appear to boss any of them around the times we were there.

It is hard to get him out with bigger dogs as we do not know many people with other dogs and he is our first so he doesn’t have anyone at home to learn from either. I have had him with my dad’s big Labrador, who most definitely put Oscar in his place when he got to rough and nippy. However my dad also has a fox terrier that is quite nippy and can be aggressive, they have not met yet and I know that my dad wants to introduce them. I don’t this is the right thing to do at the moment, only due to her behaviours which I have witnessed.

I think that is the hardest part Sandra, actually figuring out how dominant he is or whether I am just seeing it like that. I really want to be able to take him to events, such as the RSPCA walk, however have seen how difficult it is for owners with aggressive dogs and do not want that.

Again thanks to everyone for the great responses, it is very informative.

[Cosmolo]

IMO the instructors should be teaching you how to handle it and when to intervene, rather than you staying seated. You need to be in a position to control whats going on, to reward appropriate play and stop inappropriate play. Good luck

[Kelpie-i]

Agree with Cosmolo's points. You, as owner and handler, must be seen as the leader which takes control of your pup's behaviour, not someone else. The pup will never view you as such if you have no input.

[Oscar (AmBull)]

So in the off lead situations at puppy school, what should I do if I think he is playing to rough?

[Kirty]

Remove him. Put him back on leash until he calms down, then maybe let him play again. If he gets too rough again, back on lead.

[saxonspride]

He will be desexed at 5 ½ months, as that is when we have been told is the best time.

hi newamstaffowner, i've been told by my breeder, and a couple other wellinformed people who know a bit about amstaffs, that desexing them before 12 - 18 months can cause them to get pin head look, due to the muscles in their heads not developing due to lack of testosterone. as far as the humping goes, saxon humps the air, i just laugh... he tries, god love him.

[Oscar (AmBull)]

hi newamstaffowner, i've been told by my breeder, and a couple other wellinformed people who know a bit about amstaffs, that desexing them before 12 - 18 months can cause them to get pin head look, due to the muscles in their heads not developing due to lack of testosterone. as far as the humping goes, saxon humps the air, i just laugh... he tries, god love him.

Thanks so much for the great information! Where can I find out more about this? We will most definitely wait if it is going to effect his head development. What does a pin head look like?

[saxonspride]

hi newamstaffowner,

speak to your breeder, other amstaff owners, go to a show and speak to exhibitors. "pin head", is not a proper technical term. it was explained to me this way, you know how amstaffs have broad, boofy, well muscled heads when they mature? if you chop off his bits, he can no longer produce testosterone, which he requires for growth development. take that away and the muscles in and around his head may not develop fully(i've been told these are some of the last muscles to develop) leaving him with a pointier appearance. i have looked at other bully type dogs and staffies and have asked some of the owners if they were desexed and how old they were when they got done. and sure enough, the ones which were generally smaller looking were done early on. and the really muscular ones still had their bits intact. coincidence maybe. i'm not sure, but you can be sure of one thing, saxon,s keeping his tackle until i'm advised otherwise. dont worry about the humping too much, its a good conversation starter, and its funny, unless he makes contact and you dont want any unplanned little ones flying around. as far as humping you. dont allow it! saxon did this for a couple of weeks, but i pushed him away and ignored him. he soon learned that he cant do that to me.