laeral Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) I took Mica to the vet last Thurs as she had a red eye. The vet has diagnosed her with Pannus. I had never heard of this before, but it seems that there is no cure. I am pretty upset about it and unsure what it means for her future as she is only 2. I would appreciate hearing form anyone with experience with this disease, and some ideas on where to go from here. I also have another issue. Mica has been on eye drops 4 times a day since she was diagnosed. For the first 2 days all was good but yesterday she has decided she wont have a bar of it. She will shut her eyes tight, shake her head and bite at the bottle. She gets really worked up and distressed and cries the whole time. The sight of the bottle sends her into a panic. I have tried distracting her with treats, and just holding her down, both unsucceful. Its really hard to hold a 35kg wriggling dog, who squints her eyes shut, on my own. I would really appreciate any suggestions about how to administer her drops as she may need to be on them for the rest of her life. Edited June 21, 2009 by laeral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I haven't had this in my own dog, but have seen it quite a few times thorugh work. As far as I can remember it has a high prevelence with Shepherds and crosses. I have seen it in a shepherd, a cross and a Kelpie X that could have quite possibly had shepherd in there, but also maybe not. It is a life long disease and it will not go away. If you medicate Mica as advised then the condition should be kept in check so that she leads a normal life. The dogs I saw -the two I can remember coped very well and the condition was kept in check and they were happy and comfortable. No medication of course it can get a lot worse and dogs lose vision. With her drops are they cold? Do you keep them in the fridge? Dogs (and myself) hate cold drops as it is a real shock to the nice warm eye. It is best to let them sit out for a little bit or hold them in your hand until room temperature. I guess Mica will have to get used to them and if she is trying to bite at the bottle can you get someone else to help you treat her? One to hold the dog and one to do the drops? My mum's old Kelpie had an eye probelm, not Pannus but needed drops everyday. When you got the bottle out she would put her paws firmly across her eyes and it was very difficult to remove them! She did give in eventually. I would consider PMing Erny or Cosmolo they would probably be able to help you out in the fighting the drops department. Good luck and I feel for you having something like this to cope with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laeral Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 Thankyou for the reply rommimum Its good to hear about the dogs that lived normal lives with this. I was pretty upset when the vet told me about it, but I am hoping that with treatment she will be able to live a normal life. She is so active and young, it would break my heart to see her slowly go blind. So far the drops seem to be helping so maybe that is a good sign? As for the drops, yes the little bugger isnt going to get much better if I cant get them into her I keep the drops at room temperature, so I dont think it should be cold. Maybe they sting her eyes? Like I said she used to be fine with them, but after a few days, it is causing a lot of distress. I may have to see if i can get someone to come around and help me give them to her for a few days. I am going to drop into the vets today to see if they have any suggestions and will PM Erny and see if she has any ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dianed Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Hi, so sorry to hear such a young dog has pannus. Your dog will need the drops every day for the rest of its life unless something better comes along. My 10yo GSD Carla who passed away last year was diagnosed with pannus at age 6. I treated her with Optimune drops daily,I did use an ointment at the start as well to help clear the eye but I can,t remember its name. We managed to keep the disease from covering her whole eye with the drops, knocking the amount down to a maintenance dose during winter months. As soon as the sun started to shine more it was a ritual twice a day. I used to put her head in between my legs and hold her eye open one at a time and put the drops in. I held her head to make sure she didn't shake it out. Towards the end I could do it from the front, she just sat there. My vet let me pick up the drops at the counter as long as I took her in each year for a check up. The eye can ulcerate because of the cortisone use but I was very aware of that. I have seen suncaps online for dogs maybe you should have a look at them for summer, Carla wouldn't wear the doggles I got they weren't a good fit for her face shape. She did love to sit in the sun which was a problem we had with her. Her life was not altered by pannus she did the same things she always did, she saw it as her job to keep the foxes away at night. I think she relied on her sense of smell and hearing more. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) I do the holding between my legs trick as well but this is for pugs. It might be a much harder job with a larger dog. A treat afterwards is always a must. Persevere with the struggling as it has only been a few days and she is probably testing you. I am sure that she will slowly get used to the whole eye drop rigmarole. While she might never like getting the drops she will learn to bear them. Edited June 16, 2009 by puggy_puggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laeral Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Thanks for your suggestions. I think you are right Puggy and she may be testing me. I had to steel myself for a bit of a fight as she HAS to have her drops no questions and today I forced the issue. After about a 10 min struggle she gave up and let me give her the drop. I am hoping it will get easier in time, as after she has her drop she is pretty subdued for a while and it breaks my heart that i am causing this distress to her . Even if it is for her own good. ETA she gets heaps of treats afterwords and plenty of praise. Edited June 16, 2009 by laeral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charli73 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Hugs to Mica I have no expereince with Pannus, didnt even know it existed till now... I did have to give Zoe drops for a couple of weeks for an injury so i know how hard it can be, I hope Mica gets used to the routine soon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laeral Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Thanks for the well wishes Charli. I hadnt heard of it either until the vet suggested it. I am absolultey crushed. I just hope it will be treatable and she wont go blind My poor little girl, its devestating, she is so young too. Oh well, just have manage the best we can. One of the worst things for it apparently is sunlight. So it is suggested to avoid swimming etc. Thats one of her favourite things. I think we will have to invest in some Doggles Then she can go to kepala and look like a dork in her sunnies Edited June 16, 2009 by laeral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 What eye drops is she on laeral and have you taken her to see an eye specalist? I know of a puggy with Pannus. I know they try to keep her out of direct sunlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laeral Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 Puggy she is on Prednefrin Forte at this stage. We had a vet appointment on Thurs and he prescribed this 4 times a day for a week. We go back this Thurs morning to see if the drops are doing anything and to discuss where to go from there. The drops have already made a big difference, even though I havent managed to get all 4 drops in each day I believe that there is an ointment also that may work? She hasnt been to a specialist yet, but I will look into it after the vet appointment on Thurs. Do you know of any specialists in Melbourne that would be good to see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 The ointment is a lot more expensive than the drops, and harder to put in. Once you have the pannus under control it isn't a problem. I had a dog with pannus, and over time we reduced the drops to one in each eye every few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Tacrolimus drops is the long term treatment I believe and yes in the drop form it is soooooo much easier to apply then the horrible ointment. I would very much recommend Dr Robin Stanley as a fantastic eye specalist. http://www.animaleyecare.com.au/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laeral Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 I had wondered about administering the ointment. We are managing on the drops now, even if it is a bit of a wrestlemania. May try and stick to them. Greytmate, so glad to hear your dog was OK with Pannus. Im a bit surprised about how quickly it has dissapeared with the drops. You can barely see it now. I hope this will mean it will be easy to manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 That is sounding good, if it is responding that well you may be able to reduce the drops like Greymate. Fingers crossed for you when you have a return visit to the vet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfin Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Tacrolimus drops is the long term treatment I believe and yes in the drop form it is soooooo much easier to apply then the horrible ointment.I would very much recommend Dr Robin Stanley as a fantastic eye specalist. http://www.animaleyecare.com.au/ And the staff are lovely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Make sure you do a lot of pleasant touching of her head and face as well - if the odds are the dog is going to get a pat rather than eyedrops they'll be easier to handle. If the only time you go for their head is to do something unpleasant, it makes it harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neatz Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Puggy she is on Prednefrin Forte at this stage. We had a vet appointment on Thurs and he prescribed this 4 times a day for a week. We go back this Thurs morning to see if the drops are doing anything and to discuss where to go from there. The drops have already made a big difference, even though I havent managed to get all 4 drops in each day I believe that there is an ointment also that may work? She hasnt been to a specialist yet, but I will look into it after the vet appointment on Thurs. Do you know of any specialists in Melbourne that would be good to see? If you find your dog is really wiggly it may help to back your dog with it's dum into a corner so it can't back away from you. I understand about the closing of the eyelids shut tightly. It happened to me with a Amstaff that I could barely pry his eyelids apart. It can be frustrating when they wiggle and close their eyelid but the firmer the grip you can get the easier it is to open. Also my father was on Prednefrin Forte after eye surgery and he was getting it at $5 a script on his pension card. I was shocked that it sells for about $50 at my vet clinic. You may be able to get your vet to write a script for you to get the eye drops from your chemist which may work out cheaper for you if you are going to be on them long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum to Emma Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Puggy she is on Prednefrin Forte at this stage. We had a vet appointment on Thurs and he prescribed this 4 times a day for a week. We go back this Thurs morning to see if the drops are doing anything and to discuss where to go from there. The drops have already made a big difference, even though I havent managed to get all 4 drops in each day I believe that there is an ointment also that may work? She hasnt been to a specialist yet, but I will look into it after the vet appointment on Thurs. Do you know of any specialists in Melbourne that would be good to see? I highly recommend Animal Eye Care in Darling Road, East Malvern. Even before I (or should I say Emma) became a client, they gave me over the phone emergency advice on an Easter Saturday evening and have been wonderful with her treatment for lens luxation. Your dog is young and Optimune is a very expensive ointment, so DEFINITELY get advice from a specialist before consigning the dog to a lifetime of treatment. General vets often have little experience with eye conditions and don't have the equipment to accurately diagnose a condition. (For example, my vet - who has 20+ years experience told me Emma's eye cloudiness/inflammation was due to a scratch. In fact, when I took her to the specialist the next day, her lens had luxated which is an emergency situation.) And another experienced vet had years earlier said my other whippet was showing signs of early pannus. But another vet a couple of months later couldn't see any sign of it! BTW, increasing distress when applying eyedrops in an otherwise placid/compliant dog can mean they are causing discomfort. Which is another reason to see a specialist as they may have alternative treatments. It won't be cheap - but you'll get a quick and ACCURATE diagnosis, which is best for you and your dog. Feel free to PM me for more information. Good luck! Edited June 16, 2009 by Mum to Emma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laeral Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 Anita good advice. Mica has never been one to love her head being handled, she has aslways tolerated it though. I have been making an effort to make sure I pat her head and pretend to look into her eyes and give her lots of treats. Also my father was on Prednefrin Forte after eye surgery and he was getting it at $5 a script on his pension card. I was shocked that it sells for about $50 at my vet clinic. You may be able to get your vet to write a script for you to get the eye drops from your chemist which may work out cheaper for you if you are going to be on them long term. Great idea thanks I highly recommend Animal Eye Care in Darling Road, East Malvern. Even before I (or should I say Emma) became a client, they gave me over the phone emergency advice on an Easter Saturday evening and have been wonderful with her treatment for lens luxation. Your dog is young and Optimune is a very expensive ointment, so DEFINITELY get advice from a specialist before consigning the dog to a lifetime of treatment.General vets often have little experience with eye conditions and don't have the equipment to accurately diagnose a condition. (For example, my vet - who has 20+ years experience told me Emma's eye cloudiness/inflammation was due to a scratch. In fact, when I took her to the specialist the next day, her lens had luxated which is an emergency situation.) And another experienced vet had years earlier said my other whippet was showing signs of early pannus. But another vet a couple of months later couldn't see any sign of it! BTW, increasing distress when applying eyedrops in an otherwise placid/compliant dog can mean they are causing discomfort. Which is another reason to see a specialist as they may have alternative treatments. It won't be cheap - but you'll get a quick and ACCURATE diagnosis, which is best for you and your dog. Feel free to PM me for more information. Good luck! I have been reccomended this clinic by others as well. Seems like the place to go. I have a referral form I will take to the vets on Thurs and make an appointment. I definitely agree I would like to see a specialist before we decide on long term treatment. How I would love my vet to have been wrong about the Pannus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfin Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Hi laeral Hope Mica went well at the vet on Thursday... keep us updated. N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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