Nekhbet Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 your pup is suffering from seperation anxiety - this is really common no its over diagnosed. True separation anxiety and high drive/anxiety are two different things. this phase wont last long. missing out on bite inhibition and basic behavior from littermates is not a phase. I agree the OP should be guiding the dog but firstly it needs to learn that NO biting is acceptable in any way shape or form. Living with a toddler you have to make sure the dog understands as you cannot be everywhere 100% of the time. None of what i have recommended is an adult dog method it is what the mother would have done to the litter and gets through. Most of all dont forget the hugs and praise. Its easy to forget they need to know when they are doing the right thing so they can learn. Heaps of praise and affection will make him always want to do the right thing. He probably wants to even now but he needs your help to learn the right way. you have hit the nail on the head. The dog still needs to be guided and led towards what you want too many people are big on NO NO NO and forget the praise but remember it has to be a balance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP* Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 no its over diagnosed. True separation anxiety and high drive/anxiety are two different things.None of what i have recommended is an adult dog method it is what the mother would have done to the litter and gets through. I know what you mean re seperation anxiety - not true anxiety, more like they just miss you heaps. True anxiety is a lot harder to treat than just giving them a kong I thought your recommendations were good and it is really important for the pup to learn what it missed out from its mother. I meant luckily the frustrating part of puppyhood (lets not mention adolescence) is over fairly quickly compared the years of love if she puts the time in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I meant luckily the frustrating part of puppyhood (lets not mention adolescence) is over fairly quickly can you please come and explain that to my rottweiler he missed that memo telling him Caro said so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwikitten Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Most puppies like to chew on things - so they will automatically chew on your fingers. I was told to let them do it as "mouthing" is normal dog behaviour, but make sure that they were taught to be very gentle while they did it, so they learn the correct pressure to apply to humans. This is achieved by yelping and pulling your fingers away if they are too rough. Same if they like to jump up and nip your nose while licking your face. They soon learn that they need to be gentle. So they are allowed to "hold" your fingers in their mouth, they are not allowed to bite down on them. Its usually a good idea to make sure they have lots of other things to chew on too. As for snapping and biting - I used the dog whisperer "poke". If he snaps at you, poke him firmly and tell him NO. My puppy and I had an instance of an issue over a chew bone - he wouldnt let me take it off him without growling and trying to bite me. So I poked him, and took the bone. Gave it back to him. He wouldnt give it back. Poked him and took it. Repeat repeat repeat. It took 15 minutes before I could take the bone off him without any protest. And he's never barked, growled, snapped or tried to bite me since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonrexcatz Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 I have a 6 month old male (now desexed) Dachshund puppy named Justin. I have had him since he was 6 weeks old. You never taught your puppy bite inhibition - he was taken away from his litter WAY too early and now you see why it is better to leave them to learn about biting and manners from other dogs. Wrong breed for early separation. crack down on him, get tough and take away the treats. You need to get him used to handling, bite inhibition, manners and respect. Time for boot camp on this dog. Not only have you over babied him but he does not get the right punishment to fit the crime - he's become frightening at times and has jumped up to my 2 year old grandson's face and nipped at him a few times. He even has a go at me occasionally. When he does this I put him on his lead and say NO! I think it's becoming a bit of a joke with Justin; If your grandson went and punched another child in the face would you simply go 'no' .... As soon as he makes his move to bite grab him by the scruff swiftly, hold him and GRRRR NO as loud as you can. Hold him until he submits and calms down JUST like his mother would of between 5-8 weeks of age - and he will squeal, wriggle, scream, fuss, sook but you have had children and you should know what a tantrum looks like :p dogs will throw tantrums as good as the most spoiled toddler and that is how your dog is behaving. You keep hold until that tantrum is over and then ignore him for a while. Its now your job to teach him to become a dog. Teach him it is BEYOND unacceptable to even think about this behavior or he will become another one of those dogs at the vet that 'just bit the child and we dont know why' get a realistic trainer that will teach the dog right from wrong not treat it within an inch of its life. Manners are an intrinsic part of the dogs life and real leadership doesnt require a pocket full of treats at all times. There are things that are just never ever done by a dog. Hi Nekhbet Thanks for your post. Well I've been tougher on Justin and he doesn't like it one bit. He goes to grab my wrist when I scruff his neck and oftentimes he makes contact with me. He has a roll-over-onto-his-back-trick whereby he tries to twist my hand from the scruff of his neck. Maybe he is not really thinking about tactics, but it seems like it to me. I was chastising him in my room the other night for jumping up to my bed (not on it) and trying to tear away the book in my hand. After I had dealt with him he ran around my room, jumped up to the other side of the bed and bit my cat....as regards to my grandson, I have negated contact between the two till this problem is sorted out. We were very reluctant to take Justin on at 6 weeks but that's what the breeder wanted and if ever I were to be put in this situation in the future I would leave it a lot longer. My last Dachie came to me at 10 weeks and I didn't have a problem with him regards the family (he wasn't keen on kids though). He was just a gentle guy who knew what was what within the household. I knew the breeder personally and she did not let those pups get away with anything. Her dogs were always so well behaved. I have enquired about a couple of the trainers recommended here...I am just waiting to hear back from Tabitha at Sumner Park. I have no doubt that we will end up with great result in time; in so many ways he aims to please because he trains so easily regards walking, sitting, fetching etc. I know he can be a nice dog Cheers Belinda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Most puppies like to chew on things - so they will automatically chew on your fingers. I was told to let them do it as "mouthing" is normal dog behaviour, but make sure that they were taught to be very gentle while they did it, so they learn the correct pressure to apply to humans. This is achieved by yelping and pulling your fingers away if they are too rough. Same if they like to jump up and nip your nose while licking your face. They soon learn that they need to be gentle. So they are allowed to "hold" your fingers in their mouth, they are not allowed to bite down on them. I never allow my puppies to chew on my fingers or any other part of me. Chewing or mouthing a human is not allowed here in any way shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) KK: As for snapping and biting - I used the dog whisperer "poke". If he snaps at you, poke him firmly and tell him NO. My puppy and I had an instance of an issue over a chew bone - he wouldnt let me take it off him without growling and trying to bite me. So I poked him, and took the bone. Gave it back to him. He wouldnt give it back. Poked him and took it. Repeat repeat repeat. It took 15 minutes before I could take the bone off him without any protest. And he's never barked, growled, snapped or tried to bite me since. Try this on the wrong dog and you'll be on the receiving end of a very serious bite. What works on a dog of one temperament doesn't automatically work on another. A serious resource guarder would be provoked by such actions. I'd never ever behave in a way that deliberatley provoked a dog to to bite me. Ever. Edited June 19, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonrexcatz Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 Please please be very careful how you deal with this. I had problems with a young pup and got poor advice - esp from a recommended behaviourist, so I offer you this from my own hindsight.Remember your pup is the equivalent of a 5 yr old child and has all the inherent difficulties experienced at that age. If you got your pup through a breeder, please contact the breeder. He/she will have considerable experience withthe breed and probably with dogs of the same temperament (esp if they are selling such young pups). I got the best advice from my breeder. 6 weeks is really young so it has missed out on some critical development and you may need to compensate. Like any child, the pup needs guidance as well as routine and boundries (and lots of hugs). If you get a behaviourist make sure they have experience with pups - and if they start talking about adult dogs or recommending adult techniques - RUN!!! You can do long term damage, please dont use techniques designed for dealing with problem adult dogs. Has your pup got somewhere 'safe' to go? Small children and small pups are not a good combination. So give the pup somewhere safe where he can go if he starts feeling 'threatened' where your grandson cannot get to him. That gives him another way to deal with his fear besides biting. But you will need to teach him to go there instead of biting. Sounds like your pup is suffering from seperation anxiety - this is really common, you just need to give him something to occupy him like a kong. Most of all dont forget the hugs and praise. Its easy to forget they need to know when they are doing the right thing so they can learn. Heaps of praise and affection will make him always want to do the right thing. He probably wants to even now but he needs your help to learn the right way. Stick with it - it is worth it and this phase wont last long. GOOD LUCK!!! Hi *caro Justin gets lots of praise and plenty and pats and cuddles from me. My grandson loves him and likes to pat him but patting him is restricted now...my daugher isn't as forthcoming but she's getting better. My room used to be Justin's haven but he quicky learned how to chew things up in there; now he is ouside a lot if others are at home or inside with me when we're alone. Mind you, now he is restricted more to the yard he has started stripping the trees and digging holes. I feel I have been a good dog owner in the past but Justin is just a bit beyond my experience. Nevertheless he shows promising signs so I have a lot of hope. Cheers Belinda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 KK:As for snapping and biting - I used the dog whisperer "poke". If he snaps at you, poke him firmly and tell him NO. My puppy and I had an instance of an issue over a chew bone - he wouldnt let me take it off him without growling and trying to bite me. So I poked him, and took the bone. Gave it back to him. He wouldnt give it back. Poked him and took it. Repeat repeat repeat. It took 15 minutes before I could take the bone off him without any protest. And he's never barked, growled, snapped or tried to bite me since. Try this on the wrong dog and you'll be on the receiving end of a very serious bite. What works on a dog of one temperament doesn't automatically work on another. A serious resource guarder would be provoked by such actions. I'd never ever behave in a way that deliberatley provoked a dog to to bite me. Ever. I agree. Some dogs wouldn't tolerate being poked and having their food continually taken away from them, in some cases the resource guarding could very well escalate when the dog decides to take you up on the challenge and tell you it's had enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 KK:As for snapping and biting - I used the dog whisperer "poke". If he snaps at you, poke him firmly and tell him NO. My puppy and I had an instance of an issue over a chew bone - he wouldnt let me take it off him without growling and trying to bite me. So I poked him, and took the bone. Gave it back to him. He wouldnt give it back. Poked him and took it. Repeat repeat repeat. It took 15 minutes before I could take the bone off him without any protest. And he's never barked, growled, snapped or tried to bite me since. Try this on the wrong dog and you'll be on the receiving end of a very serious bite. What works on a dog of one temperament doesn't automatically work on another. A serious resource guarder would be provoked by such actions. I'd never ever behave in a way that deliberatley provoked a dog to to bite me. Ever. I agree. Some dogs wouldn't tolerate being poked and having their food continually taken away from them, in some cases the resource guarding could very well escalate when the dog decides to take you up on the challenge and tell you it's had enough. And if you can reach to poke, a dog is close enough to lunge at your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonrexcatz Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 Most puppies like to chew on things - so they will automatically chew on your fingers. I was told to let them do it as "mouthing" is normal dog behaviour, but make sure that they were taught to be very gentle while they did it, so they learn the correct pressure to apply to humans. This is achieved by yelping and pulling your fingers away if they are too rough. Same if they like to jump up and nip your nose while licking your face. They soon learn that they need to be gentle. So they are allowed to "hold" your fingers in their mouth, they are not allowed to bite down on them. Its usually a good idea to make sure they have lots of other things to chew on too. As for snapping and biting - I used the dog whisperer "poke". If he snaps at you, poke him firmly and tell him NO. My puppy and I had an instance of an issue over a chew bone - he wouldnt let me take it off him without growling and trying to bite me. So I poked him, and took the bone. Gave it back to him. He wouldnt give it back. Poked him and took it. Repeat repeat repeat. It took 15 minutes before I could take the bone off him without any protest. And he's never barked, growled, snapped or tried to bite me since. Hi kiwikitten Justin does mouth me but if I get angry with him for something naughty he has done the lips go up and he bares his teeth to bite and sometimes he does bite. He has plenty of toys which he plays with and chews on...he loves every toy he has to the point that many of them have been demolished and binned. I like the poke idea. With poking and scruffing I may have some impact. Cheers Belinda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 DRK: I like the poke idea. With poking and scruffing I may have some impact. I'd strongly recommend against this until you talk to a person who assesses your dog in person. You could make things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 DRK: I like the poke idea. With poking and scruffing I may have some impact. I'd strongly recommend against this until you talk to a person who assesses your dog in person. You could make things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonrexcatz Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 KK:As for snapping and biting - I used the dog whisperer "poke". If he snaps at you, poke him firmly and tell him NO. My puppy and I had an instance of an issue over a chew bone - he wouldnt let me take it off him without growling and trying to bite me. So I poked him, and took the bone. Gave it back to him. He wouldnt give it back. Poked him and took it. Repeat repeat repeat. It took 15 minutes before I could take the bone off him without any protest. And he's never barked, growled, snapped or tried to bite me since. Try this on the wrong dog and you'll be on the receiving end of a very serious bite. What works on a dog of one temperament doesn't automatically work on another. A serious resource guarder would be provoked by such actions. I'd never ever behave in a way that deliberatley provoked a dog to to bite me. Ever. Hi poodlefan What is your method for a biter? Belinda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Justin does mouth me but if I get angry with him for something naughty he has done the lips go up and he bares his teeth to bite and sometimes he does bite.Cheers Belinda This sounds serious, I recommend that you get professional help especially as there is a child involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 No, I certainly wouldn't poke a resource guarder... Unless it was anesthetised or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 From what i can gather- you have tried to correct, dog has had tantrum and won- perhaps multiple times. The scruffing can work- but only if you're in a position to follow through. You need to get a professional to show you what to do ASAP- before your pup learns that escalating, crocodile rolls and biting is the best way to get you to back off. I do use corrections for mouthing- but its important that the ensuing tantrum is dealt with as well. Given that you've tried a few things, advice over the net is really not the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) KK:As for snapping and biting - I used the dog whisperer "poke". If he snaps at you, poke him firmly and tell him NO. My puppy and I had an instance of an issue over a chew bone - he wouldnt let me take it off him without growling and trying to bite me. So I poked him, and took the bone. Gave it back to him. He wouldnt give it back. Poked him and took it. Repeat repeat repeat. It took 15 minutes before I could take the bone off him without any protest. And he's never barked, growled, snapped or tried to bite me since. Try this on the wrong dog and you'll be on the receiving end of a very serious bite. What works on a dog of one temperament doesn't automatically work on another. A serious resource guarder would be provoked by such actions. I'd never ever behave in a way that deliberatley provoked a dog to to bite me. Ever. Hi poodlefan What is your method for a biter? Belinda :p Summon a qualified professional with a lot of experience in dog aggression. No other method is recommended by me. I don't believe in online diagnosis of these kinds of issues. Its dangerous. You need to know WHY the dog is biting. Currently you don't and anyone here would be guessing. If its dominance then you work generally on the relationship. If its resource guarding then you work on lessening anxiety about losing food or again work more generally on the relationship. If a dog is growling or snapping at you these are warnings. Ignore the warnings and the behaviour may escalate. Discipline the warnings and they may disappear, leaving you with a dog that bites without any. You've got to remember that your dog will not differentiate between one member of that household and another. If you're poking him and taking resources, what do you think his reaction will be when your grandson comes near him and he has something he treasures. When a dog bites hard, it learns that unwanted human behaviour stops. What you can see with dogs that have learned to bite is that the bite threshold plummets - they bite earlier and harder for less provocation. Dont' play with this DRC.. get professional help now. This is a safety issue - for your grandson AND for your dog. The results for both of them if a serious bite occurs will be tragic. This is precisely my concern with TV training shows. Watching a professional with hundreds of hours of experience in both evaluating and training dogs work with one dog will not give you a surefire method of solving your own dogs's problems. More physical forms of correction are fraught with risk for amateurs. ETA: Over do the corrections and you're teaching your dog that confrontation with you provokes a physical response from which he needs to defend himself. That's a lesson you never want to teach. If you'd not be game to use these very same methods on a 40kg Rottweiller dont' do it to a pup. To do it because he's smaller is simply bullying IMO. Edited June 19, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) KK:As for snapping and biting - I used the dog whisperer "poke". If he snaps at you, poke him firmly and tell him NO. My puppy and I had an instance of an issue over a chew bone - he wouldnt let me take it off him without growling and trying to bite me. So I poked him, and took the bone. Gave it back to him. He wouldnt give it back. Poked him and took it. Repeat repeat repeat. It took 15 minutes before I could take the bone off him without any protest. And he's never barked, growled, snapped or tried to bite me since. Try this on the wrong dog and you'll be on the receiving end of a very serious bite. What works on a dog of one temperament doesn't automatically work on another. A serious resource guarder would be provoked by such actions. I'd never ever behave in a way that deliberatley provoked a dog to to bite me. Ever. Hi poodlefan What is your method for a biter? Belinda I agree with the sentiments that this is really a case that needs a professional to assess the dog and then decide on the most appropriate course of action for dealing with his behaviour. Scruffing him is obviously not working for you atm, I doubt adding in a poke will either - corrections may work in this situation, they may not, what you need is an experienced trainer who is able to show you the method that is most appropriate for you and the dog. Edited June 19, 2009 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonrexcatz Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 Hi everyone Thanks for the input from you all regarding this very serious problem. It seems there are different methods on how to deal with biting and from what I've learned, even a qualified behaviouist can get it wrong. At present I am doing the scruffing; not always successful as he retaliates in different ways but there has been a wee improvement in his knowing what I will and will not tollerate...his counter-attacking at times nevertheless tells me he knows I don't approve of his actions but he'll push the boundaries anyway. The question is then, how tough do I have to be on him? I am waiting to hear back from a dog trainer at Wagtails, Sumner Park. This training group has been recommended, is close by and is within our financial capabilities. I am very keen to get Justin into training as soon as possible...one, so I know how to handle him in the future and two, so he has the interaction with someone who will not take his rubbish. Justin is a challenge now but I'm looking forward to reaping the benefits of training and proper socialisation. I really thought this pup would be a cinch...I had done so much research before I got him I almost felt I was the 'dog whisperer' himself...how wrong one can be. Oh well, small steps Belinda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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