Timid Pup With Toileting Issues

[Ashlin]

Hi all!

I'm the proud owner of a female Alaskan Malamute named Mysty - currently 14 weeks old. We're first time puppy owners and I know that sounds odd as we have picked a breed that can be quite difficult for first-time dog owners. We have had a fair amount of experience working with the breed as we were handlers for a friend's sledding team, and of course fell completely in love. However, as we know owning a puppy is a completely different matter altogether...

We have had her for 2 weeks now and she has settled in fairly well. We were hoping to use crate training methods but had little luck in the first week and have more or less completely given up now. The first 4 nights she screamed and screamed as soon as we put her in her crate, and I understand that they cry and complain a fair bit at first, but believe me she was a real banshee. Not only was she crying for HOURS without rest but it got to a stage where she was actually slamming her shoulder against the wire door of the crate and we began to fear that she would hurt herself. We tried leaving her in the laundry and had the same result for 2 nights. Eventually we let her sleep in the main area of the house and would you believe it... not a peep and no accidents in the house.

The only time we use the crate now is when she is in the car with us, and funny enough she doesn't cry and the car doesn't seem to bother her...

So the toilet training is getting there... We were a little confused at first as I had read that puppies up to 12 weeks should be taken out every 1 - 2 hours for wees, but we've worked out her schedule is closer to 4 - 5 hrs and she will usually only do one poo a day. I have no idea if this is normal or not but it seems to be working quite well and we haven't had an accident in the house for quite some time. She is drinking roughly one large bowl of water a day, which seems to be a fair amount to keep her hydrated so I'm pretty sure that isn't an issue. She also has picked out her own section of the yard where she goes and is quite consistent with this.

The trouble is really that she is quite a timid pup and won't make the move to take HERSELF out - she will only go out to toilet if my partner or I take her. Also, if we take her out of the house (i.e to obedience class, down to the park or to visit friends) she will not go to the toilet there, even if we walk her to the grass. We find this very confusing as we are used to dogs who don't hesitate to leave there mark wherever they go (especially at the park!) but she doesn't seem to be interested...

Instead she will pee on her blanket or her toys, or even in her crate - I guess because the scent is farmiliar to her? If we remove the blanket and toys she will still not go to the toilet and will actually hold on until she is in the car. Whenever she is in the car she is in her crate which she seems to be thinking of as her toilet more than anything else right now as we're blessed with both poos and wees on the trip home which is never longer than 15 minutes. We have tried spraying the blankets/newspaper in the crate with citronella spray as a deterant, but it doesn't seem to be having any effect on the habit.

I feel like she's lacking a bit of confidence to relieve herself when we visit other places. She is very obedient and rather submissive when we are in the home situation - we have been asserting ourselves as Alphas and have laid down the house rules with positive training techniques and she is sticking to them, so we are very happy with the results in that regard. But we are wondering if that may be having a negative effect on her toileting behaviours. She has no qualms eliminating in front of us at home, it's just when we're out of home that she seems to "shy" to do it.

So I guess what we want to know is how to boost her confidence, to get her to take that extra step and start toileting in places outside our home. Perhaps we're being a little impatient and if so please tell me! I just feel like after doing so well at home we seem to be taking one step forward, 2 steps back whenever we're outside her territory. We're very active dog lovers and enjoy getting out there and doing things with our pup, but we feel this is holding us back until she can get the hang of it. Any tips or help will be appreciated!

Edited June 12, 2009 by Ashlin

[Stitch]

You have only had her for 2 weeks so she is only just settling in.

Sometimes it is the excitement/stress that causes them to eliminate in the crate in the car and they usually grow out of it.

Just ensure that she toilets outside all the time, regardless of how long she hold on between times and doesn't learn that it is OK to do it inside.

Some have better control than others.

I know with mine that some have different toilet habits than others. Some won't pee or poo anywhere else but their own backyard and others can't wait to mark & expand their territory.

Keep up the socialisation, making sure she has new experiences on a regular basis and she will become more confident.

Also take her amongst other dogs at dog training, etc.

[persephone]

When you travel,you could try taking a small amount of grass/soil from where she toilets at home..place in an area where you thinjk she may 'go'.. and see if that makes a difference.

Onething which may help- especially as she will only toilet with you present ( a habit she has learnt)

is to -EVERY time she is about to, and is, urinating or defecating..use a word/command... like "toilet',or "quick,quick", or widdle..whatever- not in a firm voice.. I use a fairly happy voice.. and repeat, interspersed with "good pup",when you see any result

Done EVERY time.. it should only be a short while before she makes the association.

You then have a dog who will toilet on cue ....and it is a wonderful thing!!

I have always done it.....it makes life so much more pleasant when travelling

Oh- and she is such a baby- please don't spray citronella on her bedding .. it is strong on littlle noses, if she is forced to lie on it

Edited June 12, 2009 by persephone

[puggy_puggy]

Continue taking her out to the toilet. She is only a baby and only getting to know your house and yourself so of course she is not going to be asking to go out to the toilet by herself just yet.

How often are you feeding her? She should be doing more then one poo a day.

Please don't use citronella spray on her crate bedding. You should stay at the place unstill she has toileted then put her in the car.

At 14 weeks she would not have had all of her vacciantions so I would be warey of taking her to dog parks or anywhere that you don't know the vaccination status of the dogs that have visited that area or the dogs that are currently there.

[Dogsfevr]

I have had showdogs that wouldnt pee/poop at shows all day,one who wouldnt go if it was an away show.

Dont make it into a big deal.One they will go but until then the more frustrated you are the more unsure the pup will be.

Dogs can feel that & even though you are asserting yourself as Alphas make sure your not going overboard .Happy results & a pup feeling the pressure can be two different things.

[Ashlin]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

STITCH: Yep, you could be right about the excitement/stress in the car causing her to eliminate. I guess what I'm worried about is that she seems to consistently go in the crate when we're travelling and I don't want her to get into the habit of associating her crate with her toilet.

We try to mix things up a bit and her confidence is growing every day, which is great to see. She loved going for a run in the rain we had the other day and loved being towelled off by mum even more. :D

Persephone: I might try the soil/grass idea next time and see how we go. Thanks a lot for that idea! I'll let you know if it helps or not.

We do use the "wee-wees" command when it's toilet time (it's easy to say in a happy voice hee hee!) and she gets praise with results. However, when we're away from home we're out there up to an hour with no result. We assume she doesn't need to go but as soon as she gets in her crate... bingo. Hopefully bringing the soil from home might help with that.

And I'll stop with the citronella - I didn't realise that was a no no. We use an antibacterial spray in her crate to clean up the mess, is this a problem or should we use something else?

Puggy_Puggy: She gets fed twice a day - mornings and evenings - following the recommendation of the breeder. She gets fed a mix of chicken mince and some premium grade kibble.

She hasn't had all her vaccinations but she goes to the puppy socialisation/obedience class run by the local dog club, designed for dogs under 6 months who haven't had all their vaccinations yet. That's the only time she is socialised at this stage, but we do take her for walks just up and down her street. Is this unsafe to do until she is immunised? I wouldn't have thought she'd pick up a residual virus without being in close proximity to other dogs...

settrlvr: We try not to make it a big deal if she has an accident, just clean it up and pretend it didn't happen. She never get's scolded but I guess if I'm feeling frustrated she can pick up on it - such as last night when we stood in the cold for an hour with no result and then as soon as she got in the crate we had action. I'm feeling more hopeful now and it will be interesting to see if we get improvements over the next few days.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Ashlin

[poodlefan]

Is there always newspaper in her crate? Was she toilet trained on newspaper by her breeder?

I'd remove all bedding from the crate while its in the car.

2 weeks isn't really long enough to establish toilet training. When you say she won't take herself out, how does she do that - through a dog door?

[persephone]

Parvo virus can be carried on dogs' feet- and infected dogs may defecate on footpaths,etc .The virus stays viable for many months... so yes, a walk down the street could , in theory, be where a pup contracts the dreaded Parvo

[Danois]

I am not sure that your puppy is timid or lacking confidence because it does not go outside by itself to toilet or relieve itself when in public.

I have an actual 'timid' dog and he had no issues going to the toilet by himself. It is more that your pup simply does not know yet about the whole toileting thing. You should still be going out with them and reinforcing the cue words for toilet.

As for relieving in public - this is quite common and I know dogs who will not go while out even as adults. While they are young - everything smells good and needs to be investigated and explored and this means they simply don't think to go to the toilet.

Just reinforce the toilet training - use the cue words while out. They'll soon get the idea.

And - 'marking' is something which comes with age. At 10 months, my dog is only just starting to do it - which means I can now train to not allow it - I don't want a dog that marks on every 2nd tree.

Just out of interest - how are you asserting your place as Alphas in the house? Just curious as puppy seems to have trained you re the crate.

[Ashlin]

Poodlefan: We used to have a blanket in her crate. When she started getting into the habit of toileting on her blanket when we were out of the house we removed it. Now we have nothing in the bottom of the crate...

When we're at home we leave the back door open so she can pass in and out as she pleases. Sometimes she will take herself out in this manner, other times she won't and will still toilet inside the house. I understand this is still part of the learning process as she is still new to the place, but the issue we're more confused about is why she won't toilet when she's away from the house.

Persephone: Yes, we have heard that Parvo can remain dormant in the soil or other environment until being contracted by a host. She had her Parvac before leaving the breeders and they told me she wouldn't need any boosters for that particular immunisation, so she should be all good in that regard. Thanks for that though.

Danois: In a way she has trained us not to put her in the crate at night because on the third night she actually broke the crate door by throwing her weight against it. :shakehead: We've got that one in the car now because it fits perfectly between the rear seats and the tailgate. So yes, we're kinda cornered until I can save up and get another crate...

On a positive note though, we took her to my parents' place on the weekend and sprinkled some of our soil on their back lawn.... and we got a wee!! There was much rejoicing and jumping up and down with glee. No accidents in the crate either so that's GREAT!