Vaccinations

[Ellie1]

Hi there,

I went around to a few vets in my area before I got my puppy, the one I like gives the C5 at 10 weeks and then dont vaccinate again until a year later. All the other vets do 2 C5 shots, now how do I know which of these is correct? I dont want my puppy's immunity compromised.

[Jetty]

My pup has recently finished getting vaccinated. He had three visits to the Vet all up for vaccinations. One to start off with, two the next time and his final C5 vaccine was two needles. Then he is ok for a year.

[neatz]

Have a look at this link. You may need to rotate the page to read it easier.

http://www.wsava.org/PDF/Misc/VGG_09_2007.pdf

Edited June 11, 2009 by neatz

[Dogsfevr]

What has the breeder all ready given C3,C4 or C5??

[Ellie1]

What has the breeder all ready given C3,C4 or C5??

He has had C3, just checked his vet card.

[Dogsfevr]

What has the breeder all ready given C3,C4 or C5??

He has had C3, just checked his vet card.

We do C3 for first vacc then 1 C5 .

[luvsdogs]

Tilba had the 1st 2 vaccinations when with the breeder & my vet gave her C7. She recently had another C7 12 mths later which will be repeated in 3 yrs except for the kennel cough vac which should be done yearly.

I went to a conference last year & one of the speakers was a vet & she told us that when puppies are only given 2 vac's the dose is stronger than the old 3 vac method.

[giraffez]

When my pup left the breeder, it had the c5. Why it is not safe to walk the puppy until the 2nd vaccination? Normally the c5 last of an entire year... so the purpose of the 2nd c5 is.....?

[Dogsfevr]

When my pup left the breeder, it had the c5. Why it is not safe to walk the puppy until the 2nd vaccination? Normally the c5 last of an entire year... so the purpose of the 2nd c5 is.....?

To make it fully vaccinated .Its a series 1/2 with optional parvo boosters & depending on your area you can get a 3 which is often an over kill

[Guest Willow]

It really depends on the brand of vaccine used as to how many you need in the pups first year of life.

My understanding is (and please correct me if I am wrong) Protech you give at 6-8 weeks then at 12 weeks, then annually, Canivac you give at 8, 12 and 16 weeks, then annually, and there is a new one, (but the name escapes me), that is given a 6 and 10 weeks, then annually....the benefit of this being you can get your pup out & about much earlier.

For the DOLer who asked why the need for two or more vaccines, is that by 6-8 weks, the immunity the pup got from it's mother is starting to fade, so we give them a vaccination, but because the immune system is immature, further vaccinations are required to give the immune system an extra "boost". By the time they are adults, the immune system is fully funtioning, so only an annual booster is required, although even this is now in some debate as to whether it's overkill or not!!!

Hope that helps????!!!!

[Staranais]

When my pup left the breeder, it had the c5. Why it is not safe to walk the puppy until the 2nd vaccination? Normally the c5 last of an entire year... so the purpose of the 2nd c5 is.....?

Because the first vaccine doesn't always "take" in some pups, due to those pups still having maternal antibodies in their systems (which they get from the mum's colostrum, protects them against pathogens but also causes the vaccine to fail as the antibodies neutralises the vaccine before it can have much effect on the pup's immune system).

Unfortunately you can't predict exactly when the maternal antibodies wear off (it depends how much colostrum the pup had, and how much antibody was in the colostrum, so can be different for different litters and different pups within one litter), or else we'd probably just vaccinate them once as soon as they wore off sufficiently for the vaccine to work.

So you give one vaccine at 12 - 16 weeks to ensure the pup becomes immune, since you know the maternal antibodies will definately have worn off enough for the vaccine to work by then. And you give earlier doses in case the pup has lost maternal antibody protection sooner. If you didn't give the earlier doses, the pup is at risk from when he loses the maternal antibody protection (can be as early as 6 - 8 weeks in some pups), to when you vaccinate him at 12 - 16 weeks.

Vaccine manufacturers are starting to make new vaccines that can break through maternal immunity to at least some extent, so with those vaccines, you may just need to give one dose, or may be able to finish vaccinating earlier. Don't know much about them myself yet, especially not the ones available in Oz.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Staranais

[giraffez]

i just went for my pups 2nd shot. It was a virbac.... and the vet said he must have a 3rd one in 1 months time......

I didn't realise there were different manufacturers of the vaccine and that it had different functions (until now)... i thought c5 was standard across. If i had known, i would have went for a vet that only needed the 2nd shot. That way my pup would be able to go out walking sooner and to the parks earlier.

i wonder why vets don't choose the vaccine that only requires the 2 shots ... $$$ is one think off..... are there benefits or disadvantages of the manufacturers which make the vaccines for only requiring 2?

[Staranais]

i wonder why vets don't choose the vaccine that only requires the 2 shots ... $$$ is one think off..... are there benefits or disadvantages of the manufacturers which make the vaccines for only requiring 2?

Also, the high titre puppy vaccines are relatively new so I imagine many vets simply don't know about them yet. Perhaps also some vets don't want to use them yet because they are so new. Some vets may want to wait until they're convinced that they work as well as the old vaccines, or until they're sure that there are no more side effects etc (I believe these vaccines do have more antigen in order to break through maternal immunity). I don't know a whole lot about them myself yet, as far as I'm aware they've only been released over here (NZ) in the last few years.

I'm also unsure if you can get high titre vaccines for kennel cough (parainfluenza/bordetella). So you might still need to go back to the vet a few times to get those, even if you do get the high titre that protects against parvo, distemper & adenovirus.

I'm not sure which brands they are in Australia, and not sure if they cost more or not. Hopefully an Aussie DOLer can help.

[Ellie1]

i just went for my pups 2nd shot. It was a virbac.... and the vet said he must have a 3rd one in 1 months time......

I didn't realise there were different manufacturers of the vaccine and that it had different functions (until now)... i thought c5 was standard across. If i had known, i would have went for a vet that only needed the 2nd shot. That way my pup would be able to go out walking sooner and to the parks earlier.

i wonder why vets don't choose the vaccine that only requires the 2 shots ... $$ is one think off..... are there benefits or disadvantages of the manufacturers which make the vaccines for only requiring 2?

I also have e feeling some vets dont only do the one that requires 2 shots as they are after the consultation fees... But then again most people dont feel comfortable with new products so that could also be it. My vet uses the 10 week C5, we are going to go for it and see how it goes.

[giraffez]

I'm seeing the 12 weeks vaccine as pointless in that case if they need three. Theoretically, if the pup isn't going to go out walking or to the park and stay mostly indoors and inside the yard, there is no point in getting 12 weeks vaccine. Its like get the vaccine for only 2 weeks protection (ie. take the vaccine at 12 weeks but its only effective 2 weeks later) ... 2 weeks after it takes effect, you need to make another trip to the vet for another one and another $100 for the vet and potentially an overkill on the chemical for the pup!

Am i missing something here?

[Staranais]

I'm seeing the 12 weeks vaccine as pointless in that case if they need three. Theoretically, if the pup isn't going to go out walking or to the park and stay mostly indoors and inside the yard, there is no point in getting 12 weeks vaccine. Its like get the vaccine for only 2 weeks protection (ie. take the vaccine at 12 weeks but its only effective 2 weeks later) ... 2 weeks after it takes effect, you need to make another trip to the vet for another one and another $100 for the vet and potentially an overkill on the chemical for the pup!

Am i missing something here?

The repeated puppy vaccination (every 2 weeks on the old schedule) is pretty much designed to hedge your bets - you vaccinate repeatedly to try to ensure pup becomes immune as soon as he possibly can.

If you're sure the pup isn't going to come into contact with parvo etc until after he gets his final vaccine, then technically you might as well only get the final one, and not waste money on the earlier ones. But most people can't be sure of that - most like to take their pup out and about at least a little before that, since socialisation is important!

Remember, parvo is a really hardy virus too. It's easy to bring virus back into your house on your clothing or shoes, so keeping pup at home isn't really any guarantee he won't be exposed to it.

If you just did the 8 and the 14 weeks vaccination like you're suggesting, what happens if pup doesn't become immune from the 8 week vaccine (as many pups don't), then loses his maternal antibody protection at 10 or 12 weeks (as most pups do), and then comes into contact with parvo at 13 or 14 weeks? If you have done a 12 week shot as well, puppy would have been protected in this scenario. Those two extra weeks of protection can be pretty crucial to a pup.

Hence the recommendation to get the full course of puppy vaccines, whichever brand you choose to use, to ensure that young pups become immune as soon as possible. There's no guarantee either way, but this is giving your pup the best chance of immunity if there's any risk they many be exposed to parvo, hep or distemper virus.

I really can understand people not wanting to vaccinate older dogs, or wanting to vaccinate older dogs minimally - from what I've seen, they have a lot of good science on their side that says that most dogs don't need many or any more C3 vaccines after they are a year old. But IMO puppy vaccination is a different thing altogether - it's just not something to skimp on since the risk of parvo etc to a young pup is so much higher than any risk of vaccine side effects.

Hopefully those new high titre puppy vaccines will make this all a thing of the past in a few years time.

[giraffez]

Thanks for clarifying that. I guess its better safe than sorry

[giraffez]

One more thing, now that my pup has had the 12 weeks vaccination. Does that mean in two weeks time, i can take him to the park or for a walk in the neigbourhood (for two weeks)... and then at 16 weeks he is back indoors for another 2 weeks until the 16 week vaccination takes effect?

[Staranais]

One more thing, now that my pup has had the 12 weeks vaccination. Does that mean in two weeks time, i can take him to the park or for a walk in the neigbourhood (for two weeks)... and then at 16 weeks he is back indoors for another 2 weeks until the 16 week vaccination takes effect?

I wouldn't.

The way it works is that the pup's maternal antibodies have probably worn off enough by 12 weeks for the vaccine to work - so pup will probably become solidly immune by 13 or so weeks (i.e, a week or so after he is vaccinated at 12 weeks).

However, some pups don't lose their maternal antibodies quickly enough for the 12 week vaccine to work. Those pups will not become immune until a week or two after they get their final vaccine. So for some period between 12 weeks and whenever they get their final vaccine, those pups are still at risk of catching parvo etc.

We can't tell if the 12 week vaccine has worked in your particular pup or not, so it's just safer to assume that he's still at risk until after his final vaccination. Get pup out of the house by all means, socialise him, but just be careful where you take him and which dogs you let him associate with until he's had his final vaccination.

You could call and ask your vet too, since I'm unfamiliar with the exact vaccine brand & protocol you're using, but that's my understanding of how it normally works. There are also lots of trainers on this board who can give you advice about socialising safely, if you wanted to start a topic on that.

Hope that makes sense.

[giraffez]

One more thing, now that my pup has had the 12 weeks vaccination. Does that mean in two weeks time, i can take him to the park or for a walk in the neigbourhood (for two weeks)... and then at 16 weeks he is back indoors for another 2 weeks until the 16 week vaccination takes effect?

I wouldn't.

The way it works is that the pup's maternal antibodies have probably worn off enough by 12 weeks for the vaccine to work - so pup will probably become solidly immune by 13 or so weeks (i.e, a week or so after he is vaccinated at 12 weeks).

However, some pups don't lose their maternal antibodies quickly enough for the 12 week vaccine to work. Those pups will not become immune until a week or two after they get their final vaccine. So for some period between 12 weeks and whenever they get their final vaccine, those pups are still at risk of catching parvo etc.

We can't tell if the 12 week vaccine has worked in your particular pup or not, so it's just safer to assume that he's still at risk until after his final vaccination. Get pup out of the house by all means, socialise him, but just be careful where you take him and which dogs you let him associate with until he's had his final vaccination.

You could call and ask your vet too, since I'm unfamiliar with the exact vaccine brand & protocol you're using, but that's my understanding of how it normally works. There are also lots of trainers on this board who can give you advice about socialising safely, if you wanted to start a topic on that.

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks. would a walk up and down my street be ok?.... not planning to introduce him to another dog just yet until fully vaccinated.