3 Year Vaccine

[Teebs]

Sorry, so there are 2 kinds?

[stormie]

Yep, Forte Dodge have one called Duramine Adult C3 and Intervet make one called Nobivac DHP. Both are triennial.

[spanky]

some vets C5 are different... one of the vets here, there C5 does NOT include canine cough, you have to have a C7 to get it! Where as most have C3 (hep, distemper and parvo) and the Canine Cough (parahoweveryouspellit and Bordetella)

And i agree Dogcop, i dont want to vaccinate my dogs, but i cant afford the $200 + that the vets here charge for titre testing, if it was an option, i would do it.

$200+ thats so expensive. Any idea how they break down the cost? I'm in Brisbane and it costs a little over $90 for my vet to do it. She sends the blood via QML to the lab in Perth.

My normal vet won't promote the 3yr vac either, for the concern that people won't bring their dogs in for yearly check-ups. The hollistic vet does the 3yr or titre, because her clients are in on a regular basis anyway and she trusts them to bring the dogs in annually.

It's interesting to see that there may not be a great difference between the 1yr and 3yr vacs.

[laffi]

some vets C5 are different... one of the vets here, there C5 does NOT include canine cough, you have to have a C7 to get it! Where as most have C3 (hep, distemper and parvo) and the Canine Cough (parahoweveryouspellit and Bordetella)

And i agree Dogcop, i dont want to vaccinate my dogs, but i cant afford the $200 + that the vets here charge for titre testing, if it was an option, i would do it.

$200+ thats so expensive. Any idea how they break down the cost? I'm in Brisbane and it costs a little over $90 for my vet to do it. She sends the blood via QML to the lab in Perth.

My normal vet won't promote the 3yr vac either, for the concern that people won't bring their dogs in for yearly check-ups. The hollistic vet does the 3yr or titre, because her clients are in on a regular basis anyway and she trusts them to bring the dogs in annually.

It's interesting to see that there may not be a great difference between the 1yr and 3yr vacs.

I am in Sydney and am also having trouble finding a vet that would titer test for less than $170... most don't know what it is and the ones that do know come up with exorbitant prices. FYI the $170 was going to the US and they didn't want to know that they can send it to WA :p

In Brisbane I had my titer tests done for $60 including a consult

[laffi]

Update :p

Spoke to the Forte Dodge rep yesterday about their triennial. She left me a booklet that doesn't answer any of my questions typically, but when the boss asked her about their vaccines, she said (in her words) that the adenovirus component has been 'ramped' up to last 3 years. She was only new so didn't know a lot about it, but what she did explain sounds like it has been altered, ie made stronger somehow, to last longer. Maybe that's just the adenovirus bit, but either way, it's not the same!

Still waiting to hear back from Intervet, but from what I've heard already, if I was going to have a triennial, I'd be wanting the Intervet Nobivac one.

Thanks stormie!!! Btw does your boss offer the Intervet Nobivac one? Where are you located? (Please PM me if you prefer

[Teebs]

Yep, Forte Dodge have one called Duramine Adult C3 and Intervet make one called Nobivac DHP. Both are triennial.

so you would go with the Nobivac?

$200+ thats so expensive. Any idea how they break down the cost? I'm in Brisbane and it costs a little over $90 for my vet to do it. She sends the blood via QML to the lab in Perth.

no idea, i have asked 3 different vets about it, all around the same price, or heaps more. None here are interested in it at all :p

[laffi]

$200+ thats so expensive. Any idea how they break down the cost? I'm in Brisbane and it costs a little over $90 for my vet to do it. She sends the blood via QML to the lab in Perth.

no idea, i have asked 3 different vets about it, all around the same price, or heaps more. None here are interested in it at all :p

I had exactly the same problem Teebs

[Teebs]

it annoys me, cause there are some people on here who go on and on about getting a titre test, they cant understand that some of us just can not do it, i cant afford that price! I would love to get it done, but not possible - i kennel my dogs, so i have no choice, i have to vaccinate!

[laffi]

it annoys me, cause there are some people on here who go on and on about getting a titre test, they cant understand that some of us just can not do it, i cant afford that price! I would love to get it done, but not possible - i kennel my dogs, so i have no choice, i have to vaccinate!

I know exactly what you mean I used to titer test in Brisbane because it wasn't 3 times more expensive than the vaccination. But I can't afford to pay $180 x 2 (coz I have two dogs) for titer testing in Sydney

It's also very hard to find kennels that do accept titer tests. Not that we use this option often but I do need to know that if there is an emergency (ie I have to see my parents in Europe asap) I can put them in a kennel for a week or two.

However finding a vet that does offer a 3 year vaccine seems to be almost as hard as finding one that would titer test anyway

I called about 20 vets last week any only 2 offered the 3 year vaccination, one of them for $160 :p

[Teebs]

How far from Orange are you? I do know there is a vet in Bathurst (30 min from orange) who does the 3 year, for $90, that is who i am going to if i get it done

[laeral]

Ive been debating with myself over vaccinating over the past 4 months. My vet wont give the 3 year vac either. I am taking Mica in this arvo to get her eye looked at so Im going to enquire about titre testing, im pretty sure they wont do it but we will see. If they wont, Im not sure where that leaves me as I don't really have many options as far as vets are concerned.

To vaccinate or not, that is the question?

[Teebs]

Honestly, if i didnt have to kennel them, i wouldnt vaccinate. The cats wont be done again unless i need to kennel (Sumo will, just his 12 monthly one)

Im going away in October, so i need to board them, so they have to be done (unless someone wants to come and housesit for a few days ? :p )

[laffi]

How far from Orange are you? I do know there is a vet in Bathurst (30 min from orange) who does the 3 year, for $90, that is who i am going to if i get it done

thanks heaps Teebs I found that the University of Sydney Veterinary Centre does them for about the same price too ( :p ) but now I want to make sure that the 3 year one is not some kind of super-vaccine that is containing heaps more antigens

I also don't know if they use the Nobivac or Duramine (will have to call them to ask).

Which one does the Bathurst vet offer?

ETA: we train in agility etc so I need to either have a current titer test or a vaccination cert

Edited June 12, 2009 by laffi

[Teebs]

I have no idea, im going to have to ring and ask as well!

[stormie]

Ok more info!! I've heard back from the Intervet rep and she's sent me a whole heap of info I'm yet to read through. When I asked her whether it was true that the annual Virbac vaccines was the same as Intervet's triennial Nobivac, this is the reply I got:

I understand your concern regarding this, most clinics have the exact same questions! I believe this has come from Fort Dodge's triennial vaccine, as the difference between Protech(annual) & Durammune(triennial) is minimal - they are actually exactly the same except for a slightly higher titre of the adenvirus component, and Durammune is more expensive. This is type of "marketing" is completely against our beliefs of best science-based solutions. As you will see in the comparison of Companion (which as you may be aware is what we produce for Virbac) & Nobivac, the vaccine strains of Parvo, Distemper & Hepatitis are completely different; & whilst we do have the research to support the 3yr duration, it is based on the better immunogenicity (or ability to induce antibodies & immunity) of these different strains.

In short, no they are not the same vaccine.

So maybe I was wrong in thinking Intervet's Nobivac was better! Sounds more like the Fort Dodge Triennial is more the same as their annual. But either way, it doesn't sound like either of the two company's triennials are the same as their annuals. In one way or another, they have altered them to ensure they last 3 years - whether it be all components or just one.

eta: unfortunately where I'm working at the moment (Sydney) doesn't offer a triennial or titre testing (my boss is a bit old school!) but my soon to be new job, there is a good chance we may offer it. Just got to do some more research first as to which one we will offer. We will also be offering titre testing. We will be in the Hills District of Sydney.

Edited June 12, 2009 by stormie

[Staranais]

I understand your concern regarding this, most clinics have the exact same questions! I believe this has come from Fort Dodge's triennial vaccine, as the difference between Protech(annual) & Durammune(triennial) is minimal - they are actually exactly the same except for a slightly higher titre of the adenvirus component, and Durammune is more expensive. This is type of "marketing" is completely against our beliefs of best science-based solutions. As you will see in the comparison of Companion (which as you may be aware is what we produce for Virbac) & Nobivac, the vaccine strains of Parvo, Distemper & Hepatitis are completely different; & whilst we do have the research to support the 3yr duration, it is based on the better immunogenicity (or ability to induce antibodies & immunity) of these different strains.

Thanks for finding all that Stormie! Am keen to hear anything more you can find out. :rolleyes:

That's really interesting that they've tweaked the vaccines. I remember reading over some papers a few months ago about vaccine schedules, and in the serology papers I read, the vast majority of dogs were shown to have adequate immunity against parvo, adenovirus and distemper 3 years after their puppy series - this was using the old annual vaccines.

So I wonder if Intervet and Fort Dodge have tweaked the vaccines because they think the new recipe genuinely offers better immunity, or if they have simply done it for marketing purposes (so they can be justified charging more because they can legally market the vaccine as a "newer, different" variety?)

If I didn't attend obedience etc, I think I'd be perfectly content vaccinating every 3 years even with the old annual vaccines, after puppy shots and perhaps a booster at 1 year. I'm convinced that this gives adequate immunity in the vast majority of dogs. The only trouble is that using the annual vaccine like this is technically "off label" use, & dogsport clubs won't necessarily accept that your dog is still covered by the vaccine unless the vaccine is a licensed 3 year variety.

I wonder if more vets will start to offer the 3 year vaccine (and start to offer it cheaper) as more and more dog owners start demanding it?

[Teebs]

damn, i dunno what to do - maybe i should head off to Sydney sometime and get a titer test done?

[laffi]

heaps Stormie

that's very helpful :rolleyes:

[stormie]

I think the main tweaking that has been done, is just more updated and current versions of each individual component, well, for the Nobivac one anyway...

Will see if I can work out how to put up the info I got sent for everyone to download..

ok this is mainly just a comparison between Intervets Companion (annual vaccine) and their Nobivac (triennial)...

Comparison_Companion_and_Nobivac_virus_strains.doc

The other stuff she sent me was just the vaccine leaflet, which pretty much says the same as above, and she also just sent me the studies done to prove that their triennual does in fact last for 36 months. Actually, it says minimum 36months, so probably lasts quite a bit longer than that for them to guarantee atleast 36.

Unfortunately no other stuff to really compare all the vaccines, but from what I can gather, they're not really putting all that much more in it, more just claims that they have the latest strains of the 3 viruses. The 'to the power of' numbers are a bit higher in the triennial though, so I'm guessing that means there is a bit more, but not 100% sure on that. Someone with more understanding of all that might be able to explain?

Edited June 12, 2009 by stormie

[Staff'n'Toller]

The 3 year is more expensive per vial so therein lies the charge. Thanks for the info Stormie it is always great to hear it from the source. :rolleyes:

I have heard through Fort Dodge that one particular clinic has overhauled their protocol and let all their clients know:-

What they are doing is charging the same price every year whether that is triennial + KC combo or just a KC booster. So over three years it works out the same than making the triennial quite exy and charging the KC combo's at a cheaper rate.

I had Geordie done with a triennial quite a few months ago and other than needing to laminate his certificate I don't envisage any problems with clubs. I don't vacc for kennel cough due to the adjuvant and would debate any club to the death about it's requirement anyway since my dogs are exposed to enough kennel cough virus throughout the year from my work clothes to spark memory cells IMO.

I think it will come down to consumer knowledge and unfortunately whether owners care enough. I don't mean that in a nasty way, I just mean that there will be a proportion of the population who aren't interested in learning further about what they are putting into their dogs so opt for the yearly vacc's out of habit.

Where I work we are also in an interesting time of change in regards to the ages of people living and moving into the area, we have a huge amount of seniors and then a good amount of young people just starting out in their new homes with their new pets. The seniors for the most part (I am making a generalisation here please take it with a grain of salt) do not like change/are scared of change/do not understand the changes. So for those reasons will stay with the original protocol.

For anyone who is in metro Melbourne and is having trouble, we will do titre testing at my clinic, I cannot remember the charge so you would have to contact me via PM if seriously interested. We also stock triennials if people are having trouble sourcing them.