Behavioral Issues After Starting Herding

[JulesP]

Yeah but it hasn't been a problem before so don't know if it is a factor. This was actually the first time she has every broken a drop stay. And she technically didn't actually break it as her belly didn't come off the ground. But once she was upset, she went to bits. I've spent the weekend checking leadership etc and everything seems to be in place.

It could just be a once off and I fretting over nothing!

[Erny]

Yeah but it hasn't been a problem before so don't know if it is a factor. This was actually the first time she has every broken a drop stay. And she technically didn't actually break it as her belly didn't come off the ground. But once she was upset, she went to bits. I've spent the weekend checking leadership etc and everything seems to be in place.

It could just be a once off and I fretting over nothing!

I'm more focused on what you said in your first post :

Prior to starting herding Poppy tended to the snappy border collie girl. It seems to be a resource guarding issue with me & my bag.

I'm not concerned so much with your dog's stays, but the fact that she is more reactive with your proximity. And it seems this has been the case from before you began herding with her - not really a "one off". So I'd be searching back at the beginning and working on that aspect more than worrying over her stay work or other things.

[persephone]

JulesP..I tend to believe that Poppy's personality is the root cause- not herding, not other dogs...

Perhaps you would benefit from an assessment from someone not closely involved with her?

Objectively then, you would have stuff to work with?

Just my 2c worth

[JulesP]

Happy to report that I had no issues with stays this week.

She was still bossy when I was relaxing. Worked perfectly around the other dogs, including during some social interaction walking stuff.

[Erny]

That's great to hear, JulesP. Hope her improved behaviour proves to be a reliably consistent and general one.

She was still bossy when I was relaxing.

Not sure what you mean by the above.

[JulesP]

When standing around chatting and not giving her a job to do she was still snapping. So walk into class and she is all happy and says hello to everyone fine, whenever there was a lull in activity she thought about snapping at whoever was near her.

I don't think the other dogs know what her problem is either! Most try to play with her.

[corvus]

I try to avoid the snapping in the first place by keeping some distance and asking her to focus on me. If she looks at a look with evil intent and I ask her to leave it and she does then I treat her. If she moves into a lunge then I go to using an arrr leave it. I then might do a focus and treat that. We also tried time outs, so she lost me if she tried to resource guard.

Ha. There are a lot of parallels there between Poppy and my Penny. Penny has been a bossy boots and the fun police most of her life. I tried all those things that you mention and the problem never really went away. I've had the most success with her in the last year since we've had Kivi by actually giving her more attention, special time with me, time on the couch with us, bringing her in with us when Kivi is out... It is growing on me that perhaps her overly bossy behaviour had a bit to do with her wanting more time with us. She's a pretty clingy, devoted kinda girl and while she has always been good about being left alone and that kind of thing, when people are in the house she seems to get anxious when she's not with them. That leads to snappyness, and as long as the dog(s) she's living with puts up with the snaps, it's a perfectly suitable outlet for her anxiety/frustration as far as she's concerned. She would hold off if I told her to, like Poppy does with you, but it never made her feel less of a need to be bossy. The only thing that's made her feel less of a need to be bossy has been taking away the source of the initial tension, which appears to have been separation for her. Subtle, as she shows very little anxiety and much more snarkiness. And tricky, because she would take as much special time with me as I cared to offer and if I then had to take it away for some reason I reckon she might feel it even more keenly. Wish I'd figured it out years ago so I could think of some way to tackle it. All bets are off for Pen, now, as she's going senile and does a lot of bizarre and random stuff, and she can't hear me when I tell her to leave off anyway.

For Penny, I have managed this her whole life and it hasn't been a major deal until now when she is 13 and not acting herself anymore. There have been lots of times when I've wished I knew how to get her to quit bossing the other dogs around. I have to say, though, timeouts were the least effective. They just made her worse and eventually she took to cowering every time I came towards her after she'd been snappy. She knew what the routine was and just got more frustrated, therefore more snappy. Back when she was younger I used to walk away and say "If you can't be nice I don't want to talk to you." She'd go and sulk under the house. It was more important to her to express herself than be seperated from me, even though she was expressing herself over her desire to be with me.

It's been manageable, but a right pain. Hope you have better success than I did.

[JulesP]

Thanks corvus. I do think it is a resource guarding/I love my mummy thing. I am now looking at the problem in the stay as a one off problem (it could happen again if she feels threatened) and separate from the snapping. Poppy is super, super devoted to me. The very first time I saw her she bolted away from the other pups and threw herself at my feet. She then did not leave me alone the whole time I was there.

It means I have a dog that works brilliantly for me. But does come with some issues. I reckon all great animals have some issues though, lol. Maybe that is because I had Arabian horses!

[Erny]

I reckon all great animals have some issues though, lol. Maybe that is because I had Arabian horses!

.... The serious side of me doesn't agree, of course - but the funny side of me can SOooooo relate to the "Arabian Horses" bit!

[piper]

Thanks corvus. I do think it is a resource guarding/I love my mummy thing. I

I have been thinking about this. I sort of had similar issues with Piper. Piper used to only dislike other dogs that rushed up to er when on lead and working, it was definitely about proximity to me. Then we started agility and she would work initially with say 5m of me and suddenly the behaviour changed and even at the park if offlead and within a 5m radius of me she would snap. Then we started herding and progresively she would take commands from an ver increasing distance, as this distance increased so did the distance away from me that she would react to other dogs, it was all very much related to her "working" distance from me. I never put it down to herdng but rather her increased response to commands at a distance and the fact that she always reacted in some way to dogs "intruding" on her working, and to Piper working means focus on me and that is where her focus always is. I should add that if a dog is sensitive in its approach and doesn't charge head first in like a rude thing then she is far more tolerant. I have always just managed it by responding and calling her away if I see a dog approaching in a manner I know will annoy her and once she is back to me I do my job and block them out of the way to the best of my ability.

[JulesP]

Thanks Piper.

Had Poppy tied up tonight at agility, next to her brother. She was not impressed and was growling and carrying on. We both just ignored her. She is one strange little dog.