Staff'n'Toller Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 That's fine- you just need a Dermatologist Vet, if your dog needs further consultation by a surgeon they will just refer you within the clinic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Wow. I can't believe how much worse this has got since your first post!! Sorry you are going through all this. I think you're making the right decision to go for a second opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~JessyBee~ Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm sorry Moosepup - I didn't mean to scare you I definitely think you need to get a second opinion from a specialits - I would ask them to write a letter to the principal vet at the practice where this happened. No vet likes to look bad in the eyes of his/her peers, and I dare say it will kick them into action! Unfortunatley that is what we had to resort to in the end to get answers from the clinic. Mind you when the principal vet came back (she was O/S when Beau's injury happened) it was all sorted very quickly and professionally and she made it clear that it was unacceptable and she was furious with her staff for letting it get out of hand. Looking at the pic, it looks exactly like Beau's burn Mind you I still think it looks healthy and how it should at this stage. The top section looks great - considering All that scab will come off and it will be pink raw flesh. I would just keep my eye on the bottom left of the wound, it looks like it may progress a bit further down, it looks a bit green but it could just be a shadow. Not much you can do about the puss, just be thankful it doesn't stink! Is he on AB's? Personal choice of course but it may be a good idea. I would also be making sure he is on great food and maybe look at using something like Dr Bruce's Health Booster. He is going to be putting a lot of energy into healing himself. How old is he Moosepup? Looking at how big the area is, I don't know if it will need surgery, a specialist should be able to tell you. Beau's started off the size of a football and shrunk to about the size of my hand, plus a bit extra, by the time he had surgery. I don't think it has to be dressed, Beau's healed faster after we stopped dressing. As long as he isn't licking excessively I wouldn't worry. Hopefully your boss lets you bring him to work so you can keep your eye on him I took Beau to work a fair bit, but it was hard on him getting in and out of the car - you can lift your boy, so it shouldn't be a problem. Remember this isn't your fault! I know how you are feeling right now, but he will get better and he still loves you! :hugs: GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepup Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 Hi guys, thanks so much for your help and support, I'm feeling much better today!! I took Moose to another vet today for a second opinion and he was great. Whilst he isn't a speciailist, he does have a background and interest in dermatology. He was very informative and knowledgable (has treated burns worse than Moose's) and just made me feel at ease. He said that he didn't think it was necessary to refer me onto a skin specialist at this stage and we will see how it goes. I also appreciated that this clinic even made sure that I saw him as he had the most expertise in this area when all I told them was that I wanted a 2nd opinion on a burn. Another vet even came out and apologised to me for the wait but said it was best that I waited to see him specifically!! He did a thorough exam of his wound, checked his heart and temp and checked out the photos I took in of the burn, starting from day 1. Based on all this he has put him back on AB's for 2 weeks and given me some Dermaclens cream to put on the wound once a day, and also told me to continue with the silver cream once a day. I'm to stop washing it with salt water as this will just keep the burn moist when we really want to dry it out. He said the cream will help to remove the necrotic tissue and start healing the raw bits. He is hopeful that surgery will not be neccessary but said if the large blister area doesn't come away fully they may do a minor surgery to lift it off. I take him back in 2 weeks for a checkup unless I'm concerned about anything before then. So far so good, such a load off my mind! I'm not too sure what to do about the previous vet.... the vet that has been looking after his burn has been very good but I just feel this new vet knew more about treating burns and was a lot more informative about the road ahead. I'm not very confrontational so don't know how I would go about asking them to pay for his continuing treatment. Maybe I should just grin and bear it and be comfortable with the knowledge that he is now in good hands. Also, the boss is fine with me taking him into work! I took him in on Tuesday and he was a big hit, won over the ladies!! I will take him whenever I can and leave him at home with his bucket on when I can't. Oh, and the vet seemed to think that it was a HWB burn, like Beau's burn. I would just keep my eye on the bottom left of the wound, it looks like it may progress a bit further down, it looks a bit green but it could just be a shadow. Not much you can do about the puss, just be thankful it doesn't stink! Is he on AB's? Personal choice of course but it may be a good idea. I would also be making sure he is on great food and maybe look at using something like Dr Bruce's Health Booster. He is going to be putting a lot of energy into healing himself. How old is he Moosepup? See what you mean about the green bit, definitely doesn't look as bad today, that last photo was actually pretty gruesome, doesn't look quite so bad in the flesh! Back on the AB's as of today. He is fed a raw diet (Dr B's BARF patties) and I will look into the Health Booster, thanks. ;) He is 7 months old (as of yesterday). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~JessyBee~ Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 So glad you have a vet you feel comfortable with moosepup! Just because of his age I would look into the health booster - it should help him out a bit - most of his energy will go towards healing for a while but since he is on a good diet anyway he should be fine. If you feel uncomfortable about approaching the vets about compensation (in the form of treatment) perhaps you could write them a letter? If you are like me you probably get flustered when you are upset about something - I tend to forget the important bits! LOL At least in a letter you can write it all down. Explain that you have seen Dr X and he advises X treatment plan. Even if they are just providing things like medication (AB's and cream) for now, let them know that if he requires surgery later on (hopefully not) that they will be responsible for any costs. It won't hurt, all they can say is no, but to me they have admitted guilt when they started treating it as a burn. If you can include a report from the new vet that states he believes it is from a HWB that would be good. Make it clear that your boy had no contact with any other heat source and due to the time frame it would indicate that the burn was inflicted during his dental treatment at the clinic. Anyway, it muct be a lot off your mind now, keep in contact with the vet and I would keep taking pictures daily (if you write a letter include these with it...) to keep track of how it is healing. Let us know how it goes GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyGirlQld Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Moosepup - So very sorry to hear about your little guy's troubles. :D Our greyhound girl recently sustained a full-thickness (third/fourth degree) burn to her back leg during a surgery. A HWB was the culprit (they don't use heating pads at that particular surgery). After some initial (and fairly understandable) debate re. the cause (burn, spider bite, reaction to injection), we managed to get all the vets and specialists involved (two different vet surgeries - our usual one, and the one involved in the surgery -, a surgical specialist, and the third party vet who did the surgery) talking the same language - i.e. it's a pretty classic presentation of a burn. But it was a tough road to get to that point - so I can appreciate your struggles with this part of the process. ;) As for treatment - So far we've followed a very similar treatment and consult regime to GoldenGirl - initially we had to wait a week or so post-diagnosis (about 18 days after the burn incident) for the necrotic skin to slough away. That's when it was diagnosed as full-thickness - gotta say, it's kind of weird to see your dog's muscles up close and personal like that! So it sounds like you're playing that particular waiting game at the moment. Since then, we've seen a surgical specialist re. our options - he was wonderfully supportive, and gave us both surgical and non-surgical options. He also communicated directly with the vets involved in the initial surgery, and they're now providing us with ongoing (no cost) support to treat the wound. Like you, we felt a lot better once we'd sought the opinion of a specialist - helped us to understand what our options were. We're now taking the non-surgical path - daily wet dressings (done by the vet), to facilitate the natural healing process, plus antibiotics and pain meds (Metacam) to manage the other risks. Silvasine cream was prescribed about 2 weeks into the process, and does appear to be the standard treatment for burns. Down the track, if the wound doesn't completely close and heal by itself, we can then consider a final surgery to deal with that. I'm no vet (caveat! caveat! ) - but it does look like your boy has a burn... perhaps not full-thickness, though (hard to say if the slough isn't complete)? I've attached a photo of my girl's burn wound - it's about the size of my hand - as a comparison (photo was taken last weekend, after most of the necrotic skin had come away - you can already see the areas where it's started granulating). WARNING: it's pretty graphic in full view, so don't look at it if you're in any way squeamish! I understand how difficult it is to manage not just the wound care, but also the different opinions and options (not to mention the difficulties of discussing causality, and who should be responsible for costs, etc.) - but it looks like your little guy is getting great care from you and that you've got some cluey vets on side. Best wishes for the next part of the journey... and, given our recent experience, I'm happy to provide (layperson!) advice/support if you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy's mum Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 The poor wee chap. I cannot believe how common this seems to be from all these posts! Glad you are now with a vet you can have confidence in. Hopefully it will just be a distant memory soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashew Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Oh dear the burn looks horrifying painful. Poor thing. I wonder if there is a certain protocol about using heat sources like HWB...it looks way too dangerous now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyGirlQld Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I wonder if there is a certain protocol about using heat sources like HWB...it looks way too dangerous now. It seems that in our case there were two highly experienced vets (50+ years of combined 'vetting') who had simply never encountered this specific cause-and-effect before - they had both used HWBs in numerous surgeries without incident, and always took precautions (thick towels covering the HWB, not using boiling water from a jug, etc.). Unfortunately, a small towel slippage, and a couple of minutes' contact on a relatively thin-skinned dog was all it took. In future we'll just be a lot more insistent with our (now quite long!) list of pre-surgery questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepup Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 Oh my gosh GreyGirl!!!! That is terrible!!!!! I can't believe that this seems to be somewhat a common occurence. Moose's burn is approximately the size of a golf ball (and a half). But I guess because of his size it could be in comparison to your girls. You can see the size of it on him in this pic.... (snoozing under my desk at work). Don't know if you can see him there amongst the rabbit, monkey, donut, kong, etc, etc. In future we'll just be a lot more insistent with our (now quite long!) list of pre-surgery questions... Haha tell me about it! Fingers crossed Moose won't need surgery on his burn because I know I will be sitting around that day having palpitations. I wonder if they will let us supervise any future ops?? Just because of his age I would look into the health booster - it should help him out a bit - most of his energy will go towards healing for a while ;) but since he is on a good diet anyway he should be fine.If you feel uncomfortable about approaching the vets about compensation (in the form of treatment) perhaps you could write them a letter? If you are like me you probably get flustered when you are upset about something - I tend to forget the important bits! LOL At least in a letter you can write it all down. Explain that you have seen Dr X and he advises X treatment plan. Even if they are just providing things like medication (AB's and cream) for now, let them know that if he requires surgery later on (hopefully not) that they will be responsible for any costs. It won't hurt, all they can say is no, but to me they have admitted guilt when they started treating it as a burn. If you can include a report from the new vet that states he believes it is from a HWB that would be good. Make it clear that your boy had no contact with any other heat source and due to the time frame it would indicate that the burn was inflicted during his dental treatment at the clinic. Anyway, it muct be a lot off your mind now, keep in contact with the vet and I would keep taking pictures daily (if you write a letter include these with it...) to keep track of how it is healing. Let us know how it goes :p GG, went to PetStock today and bought some Dr B's Health Booster. I put just less than half a teaspoon (he only gets about 80-100g of food) on his dinner tonight and he chowed it down. Hope it helps his system cope a bit better! Thanks for putting me onto it. :rofl: I bought the 500g container and I think it's going to last me a loooooooong time haha. Will definitely be keeping a photo diary of his progress and will put a letter together for the previous vet. I feel bad about leaving the vet that has been treating his burn (not the same one that did his surgery but same clinic) but I need to keep reminding myself that it's what is best for Moose not my worry about hurting someones feelings. I will mention in the letter that she has been great to him but I feel that the new vet has more expertise. Oh dear the burn looks horrifying painful. Poor thing. I wonder if there is a certain protocol about using heat sources like HWB...it looks way too dangerous now. Does, doesn't it???? Poor girl. Moose doesn't seem to have any pain associated with his (strange dog). I can poke and prod and he doesn't flinch. This may all change when the raw skin is out in the open though. Your girl's burn very sensitive GreyGirl? Can I just say again how priceless all your help has been everybody. I think I would just be a heap on the floor if I didn't have you guys to talk/vent/share with and give me tips and advice. Thanks a ton. Erin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab_Rat Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Ive just seen your thread moosepup - you poor things!!! What a dreadful thing to happen! Im glad youve found a useful vet and your gorgeous little dog is on the mend. Nice that you can take your baby to work with you! I had a baby, orphan wild duckling last season which I took to work with me - everyone went stoopid over a duckling, boss included! Cant imagine how they are with a beautiful little dog like Moose!!! Wishing a speedy recovery for the little one Rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~JessyBee~ Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Glad he liked it moosepup! Mine love it, and since they get plain meat and a little dry, it gives them the extras they need - Mine love it too He looks so cosy in his bed at work! What a brave boy. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyGirlQld Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 You can see the size of it on him in this pic.... (snoozing under my desk at work). You must have a fantastic boss! It would make my day to be able to take one of my hounds in to work with me... not much chance of that, me being a public servant working 20-odd floors up in a city building! Sounds like you're on top of the treatment for the burn... we've got Lacey on such a range of medications, supplements and daily dressings at the moment, we've had to stick a list on the fridge so we don't miss anything! It seems to be worth it, though - her wound is granulating at a rate of knots, and hopefully it heals well enough on its own that we can avoid surgery. Cross fingers... :rolleyes: Best of luck with the continuing treatment - looking forward to the updates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I am thinking i am going to have a chat to my vet about what heat they use when my kids are there. Atlas has been sedated 2 times in the last few weeks, and kaos needs a tooth removed, will remember to ask and make sure they do not use a hot water bottle, that burn above on the leg looks so painful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyGirlQld Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Your girl's burn very sensitive GreyGirl? Sorry - should have read your post / questions a bit more closely! Our girl was quite lucky (as far as these sorts of things go) - because it was a full-thickness burn, she didn't have any nerves left in the wound area to transmit pain. She was also only off the pain meds for a day or so (she'd been on them post-dental for about 10 days), so that would have helped to manage any initial pain. At the moment she's on a twice-daily dose of Metacam - it's only as the dose is wearing off that we occasionally notice some pain reflexes (deep muscle twitching, usually). I'm guessing she'll feel more discomfort as the healing progresses, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. So, short answer - we're managing her pain as best we can, and she seems quiet and calm and not too worried by things (other than the elizabethan collar! ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepup Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) You must have a fantastic boss! It would make my day to be able to take one of my hounds in to work with me... not much chance of that, me being a public servant working 20-odd floors up in a city building! :cool: She's happy for me to bring him in but it's my responsibility to sneak him past security in the mornings (they drive around patrolling the car park) and make sure he's not caught whilst out doing his business :D. He's so small though I'll just be like "Dog? What dog???". It's looking pretty good this morning, a lot of the dead skin has come off, just leaving that larger blister which I think goes deeper than the surrounding area. I know he has been licking it during the night (naughty me ) so he will be sleeping with his bucket on from now on. Surprised that the Dermaclens has worked so quickly but it seems like the right stuff. Edited July 4, 2009 by moosepup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepup Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) Just had a chat with his previous vet to explain why I was leaving to see another vet and she seemed pretty disappointed (me has guilt attack!! ). I think maybe she was upset that I didn't discuss it with her first but at the end of the day I need to do what I feel is best for my boy and see a vet that makes me feel confident as well. I wouldn't hesitate to continue taking Zoe to her for her health issues and she has been brilliant with that. Hope she doesn't take this situation out on her! Dog I feel like poop! Edited July 4, 2009 by moosepup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Rules Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Just had a chat with his previous vet to explain why I was leaving to see another vet and she seemed pretty disappointed (me has guilt attack!! ). I think maybe she was upset that I didn't discuss it with her first but at the end of the day I need to do what I feel is best for my boy and see a vet that makes me feel confident as well. I wouldn't hesitate to continue taking Zoe to her for her health issues and she has been brilliant with that. Hope she doesn't take this situation out on her!Dog I feel like poop! That vet has an ego by the sounds of things. You have been very courteous by all accounts and you have no reason at all to feel bad. I'm so glad you got a second opinion, the new cream seems to be working quickly and while burns are always slow to heal, it seems you are on the right track now. Gentle hugs to your wee fella By the way, are you NOR? Just wondering which vet clinic you went to (you can PM me if you like) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepup Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 By the way, are you NOR? Just wondering which vet clinic you went to (you can PM me if you like) I have PM'd you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyGirlQld Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 It's looking pretty good this morning, a lot of the dead skin has come off, just leaving that larger blister which I think goes deeper than the surrounding area. I know he has been licking it during the night (naughty me :cool: ) so he will be sleeping with his bucket on from now on. Surprised that the Dermaclens has worked so quickly but it seems like the right stuff. Great to hear Moose is responding well to the treatment - sounds like Dermaclens does a similar thing to the Silvasine cream we used (both protects the new/raw wound areas, while assisting the necrotic skin to detach and slough away). In any case, a good result by the looks of things... I'll have to post some updated photos of my girl's wound - it's amazing how quickly the skin is starting to regrow and knit back together. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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