Vet Medication Charges

[raz]

Mark up varies depending on the market and the product. Would be between 5% to 25%

So not 10% like you suggest vets use. I see. Puggy was spot on. So what's the product? I like to support Australian companies and I'll keep an eye out.

[puggy_puggy]

If you think that all vets are too expensive for you, the (here comes the old chestnut), don't get a pet.

That's a novel approach, Paula. I was thinking exactly the same thing.

So owning and caring for an animal should be a privilege only offered to the wealthy? The pensioner who lives from one pension cheque to the next isn't entitled to the company of a pet because they can't afford the inflated medication charges that vets think are their due "because they have a university degree"?

We are not arguing here about the consultation fees of vets and vet specialists. They should be (and are) on par with GPs and specialist medical practitioners. We are debating the justification of charging inflated prices for medication simply to shore up the bottom line. If nothing else this leaves vets wide open to accusations of over medicating our pets.

If some vets can't make the living they aspire to by such back-door methods, perhaps they should think of getting out of the business. After all, at least in the cities, there seems to be more vets than GPs.

Unfortunatey Mum to Emma this has been stated several times and they just done get it. Charge the true cost of the service, I have said this numerous times. I do not have a problem with vet bills, and was about to have my dogs cateracts removed costing $4000. I had the total costing of the procedure prior and the drugs were a minor component.

You failed to comment on the people who have a consultation, and then return for repeat prescriptions. Why should Joe Blow pay more for his consult, to pay for the many clients that come back each month to stock up on arthritis treatments, or their atopy meds? We have the mark up on the drugs, to keep the consult fee down. As has been said before, not everyone that comes in for a consult goes away with drugs!!

Actually, 9 times out of 10 you do!

If vets didn't dispense medications (or couldn't - as apparently is the case in the UK? Pls correct me if I'm wrong) in the same way that GPs can't, they would be justified in charging a higher consultation fee.

Why do you think it is that GP's can't sell you medication themselves? Because they would be seen to be profiting from dispensing often unjustified medicines. This means that we only take medicine when it is necessary.

Of course this doesn't apply to all vets, and probably only a small number of rogue money-hungry ones, but it is the duty of the Australian Veterinary Association to protect patients (of the four legged kind) from profiteering practices who tip their scales in favour of money over animal welfare.

Let me think. I have been taking Poppy to see a vet/specalist once a week for the last two months. I have only once come away once with meds in the last 8 consults.

Most vets do not charge a consult fee for arthritis injections they only charge for the injection. (which most often are one over a few weeks every 6 to 12 months)

Most vets will dispense repeat meds if they know the dog and the onwer just as human doctors will do.

[mrs tornsocks]

I don't really see why vets should point you in the direction of something cheaper elsewhere? No other business would do that.

Other businesses DO do that! I work for a major international law firm and we regularly tell new clients to go to smaller firms because we can't do the work in a way that would be economical to them. We could "screw" a client thousands for a debt collection, but don't. We tell them to go to a debt collection firm who can do the job quickly efficiently and economically.

Wow - I have just been reading through this thread and introducing lawyers / charges into the mix sure is a brave move !

Edited June 8, 2009 by mrs tornsocks

[poodle3081]

Mark up varies depending on the market and the product. Would be between 5% to 25%

So not 10% like you suggest vets use. I see. Puggy was spot on. So what's the product? I like to support Australian companies and I'll keep an eye out.

I give advice to clients for free and only profit on the sale of goods. Clients can shop around and I buy if they choose it is open pricing. I don't supply the goods and hit them with $300 for freight. I only charge the actual freight cost and not the cost of booking and packaging.

[puggy_puggy]

I don't really see why vets should point you in the direction of something cheaper elsewhere? No other business would do that.

Other businesses DO do that! I work for a major international law firm and we regularly tell new clients to go to smaller firms because we can't do the work in a way that would be economical to them. We could "screw" a client thousands for a debt collection, but don't. We tell them to go to a debt collection firm who can do the job quickly efficiently and economically.

Wow - I have just been reading through this thread and introducing lawyers / charges and ethics into the mix sure is a brave move !

I must have missed that.

Just as with vets you can choose to use a normal vet to perform a procedure at a lower cost or go to a specalist who of course is going to charge you more.

[nicestman77]

Mark up varies depending on the market and the product. Would be between 5% to 25%

So not 10% like you suggest vets use. I see. Puggy was spot on. So what's the product? I like to support Australian companies and I'll keep an eye out.

It looks like we have come to a stalemate.

So can we agree to disagree that some vets don't do the right thing by over charging for their drugs.

And can we agree to disagree that there are a lot of vets out there who do do the right thing towards their customers by selling the drugs at a reasonable price.

Come on guys shake hands.

[stormie]

it is the duty of the Australian Veterinary Association to protect patients (of the four legged kind) from profiteering practices who tip their scales in favour of money over animal welfare.

AVA only has control over paid up members. More than 2/3 of the vets in this country refuse to join that organisation. So here's another novel approach - only use the services of an AVA member. Goodluck finding one.

That's interesting. I wonder why? Because vets don't like being told what to do? Perhaps because the AVA doesn't approve of hidden charges and supports full cost disclosure?

you're kidding right?

I still don't understand what the problem is. What you guys are asking, if for vets to reduce the mark up on their products they sell. The mark-ups have been calculated to ensure they earn a profit. Lose this profit, and your local vet goes out of business.

If this thread hasn't gone kaput by tomorrow, I'll let you know what the REAL mark up is on certain things first hand, not from 'your mates'.

[Paula-]

When receiving a bill I would like to be charged for the consultation and the cost of medications/drugs plus a small mark up of around 10% to cover expenses

If you let us know what you sell, I'll keep an eye out too I'd like to get charged cost price on everything, please - plus maybe 5% on top for yourself

[Mum to Emma]

it is the duty of the Australian Veterinary Association to protect patients (of the four legged kind) from profiteering practices who tip their scales in favour of money over animal welfare.

AVA only has control over paid up members. More than 2/3 of the vets in this country refuse to join that organisation. So here's another novel approach - only use the services of an AVA member. Goodluck finding one.

That's interesting. I wonder why? Because vets don't like being told what to do? Perhaps because the AVA doesn't approve of hidden charges and supports full cost disclosure?

you're kidding right?

I still don't understand what the problem is. What you guys are asking, if for vets to reduce the mark up on their products they sell. The mark-ups have been calculated to ensure they earn a profit. Lose this profit, and your local vet goes out of business.

If this thread hasn't gone kaput by tomorrow, I'll let you know what the REAL mark up is on certain things first hand, not from 'your mates'.

I'm genuinely curious - why is it that GPs, lawyers, builders, plumbers, electricians etc etc are keen to join the relevant governing body that endorses their work and in return requires that some guidelines be followed, whereas vets are NOT willing to do so?

[stormie]

Mark up varies depending on the market and the product. Would be between 5% to 25%

So not 10% like you suggest vets use. I see. Puggy was spot on. So what's the product? I like to support Australian companies and I'll keep an eye out.

I give advice to clients for free and only profit on the sale of goods. Clients can shop around and I buy if they choose it is open pricing. I don't supply the goods and hit them with $300 for freight. I only charge the actual freight cost and not the cost of booking and packaging.

I don't think you realise that vets do the same thing. Eg. Joe Blow brings Scruffy in for a consultation. Scruffy seems to be itchy and has smelly skin. Vet does some basic tests and decides Scruffy needs some antibiotics to clear up skin infection. Joe Blow says thanks and goes home. And end of course of AB's, Joe Blow calls up his trusty vet and speaks to him over the phone - Scruffy stopped itching while on AB's but has started up again. Trusty vet tells Joe Blow that he might need a longer course of AB's as well as some antihistamines and tells him he'll organise for the drugs to be waiting at reception and he just needs to come by and pick them up. This course of treatment works, and Joe Blow just needs to call up when he needs some more antihistamines (and yes, Trusty Vet did suggest he could use human ones but Joe Blow would rather use the vet ones cause they are all labelled and easy to use).

All he paid for was one consult, yet he techincally had two. Just had to pay for the drugs the second time. Happens all the time.

[stormie]

it is the duty of the Australian Veterinary Association to protect patients (of the four legged kind) from profiteering practices who tip their scales in favour of money over animal welfare.

AVA only has control over paid up members. More than 2/3 of the vets in this country refuse to join that organisation. So here's another novel approach - only use the services of an AVA member. Goodluck finding one.

That's interesting. I wonder why? Because vets don't like being told what to do? Perhaps because the AVA doesn't approve of hidden charges and supports full cost disclosure?

you're kidding right?

I still don't understand what the problem is. What you guys are asking, if for vets to reduce the mark up on their products they sell. The mark-ups have been calculated to ensure they earn a profit. Lose this profit, and your local vet goes out of business.

If this thread hasn't gone kaput by tomorrow, I'll let you know what the REAL mark up is on certain things first hand, not from 'your mates'.

I'm genuinely curious - why is it that GPs, lawyers, builders, plumbers, electricians etc etc are keen to join the relevant governing body that endorses their work and in return requires that some guidelines be followed, whereas vets are NOT willing to do so?

because it costs them a fortune to join and they don't get anything out of it!

[Erny]

Poodle3081 - OT but you're not by any chance related to/the same as "Poodles Plus" (a previous DOLer who was also "an engineer") or one of the other of "Poodles Plus" alias' (eg. "Lab and Poodle") are you?

Edited June 8, 2009 by Erny

[raz]

I give advice to clients for free and only profit on the sale of goods. Clients can shop around and I buy if they choose it is open pricing. I don't supply the goods and hit them with $300 for freight. I only charge the actual freight cost and not the cost of booking and packaging.

Not the answer I was looking for but kudos for skirting around the issue. What product do you sell?

[Erny]

What product do you sell?

He's into the repair/sale of clippers and other grooming equipment, from what I see.

[raz]

He's into the repair/sale of clippers and other grooming equipment, from what I see.

Tearies. I probably havent bought them then. I hand strip. I was hoping he said he supplied computers, Erny. I havent bought one of them in over 25 years and dont expect to do so in the next 25 years

[Mum to Emma]

it is the duty of the Australian Veterinary Association to protect patients (of the four legged kind) from profiteering practices who tip their scales in favour of money over animal welfare.

AVA only has control over paid up members. More than 2/3 of the vets in this country refuse to join that organisation. So here's another novel approach - only use the services of an AVA member. Goodluck finding one.

That's interesting. I wonder why? Because vets don't like being told what to do? Perhaps because the AVA doesn't approve of hidden charges and supports full cost disclosure?

you're kidding right?

I still don't understand what the problem is. What you guys are asking, if for vets to reduce the mark up on their products they sell. The mark-ups have been calculated to ensure they earn a profit. Lose this profit, and your local vet goes out of business.

If this thread hasn't gone kaput by tomorrow, I'll let you know what the REAL mark up is on certain things first hand, not from 'your mates'.

I'm genuinely curious - why is it that GPs, lawyers, builders, plumbers, electricians etc etc are keen to join the relevant governing body that endorses their work and in return requires that some guidelines be followed, whereas vets are NOT willing to do so?

because it costs them a fortune to join and they don't get anything out of it!

Isn't membership of professional associations tax deductible?

Hmmm ... maybe the AVA should advertise that their members don't price gouge on medication!

Edited June 8, 2009 by Mum to Emma

[spanky]

Ok, I skipped much of this thread... after 6 pages it started going in a few circles. Now if I might wade on in...

Do I think vets charge too much on drug mark-ups? No.

Why do I think that? My vet cares for and has helped my dogs, if they cover some costs by charging a mark-up on drugs, so be it. I'd rather a drug for my dogs be dispensed by my vet then going to a chemist to get a prescription drug and figuring out dosages.

I to agree with needing to be able to afford your dogs medical costs. My male frenchie is at the vet on a drip tonight and without asking today they offered me the cost of their consult over the phone and then gave me an estimate of his treatment that I had to agree to before he was admitted. $500 means nothing if it keeps him away from his kidnesy failing, which would probably happen if I didn't treat, so it's important to be able to afford unexpected vet bills.

A consult with my vet is $54.50, less for a repeat visit, and I don't always leave with drugs. I'd prefer to continue to pay this amount and a higher price for drugs, than the other way around.

To give a comparison, an inital consult with the holistic vet is $110.00, repeat visits are $60.00 and occur more frequently than the normal vet. I pay around $40 for the herbal tablets for my female every 2mths and this is fairly similar to what the acupuntcturist at my work charges for a similar product for humans.

At the end of the day, the vet gives you a diagnosis (as does a GP for a person), you are well within your right to turn down the suggested course of treatment (just like a person can do with a GP). It's personal choice if you follow it or not, which leaves you with the option to shop around. Personally I don't play with my dogs lives, I pay the price and thank the vet for being able to find the problem with no communication from the patient about how they are feeling.

[poodle3081]

Poodle3081 - OT but you're not by any chance related to/the same as "Poodles Plus" (a previous DOLer who was also "an engineer") or one of the other of "Poodles Plus" alias' (eg. "Lab and Poodle") are you?

Erny you can never be sure who you are related to

[witheverythingiam]

:clap:

I'd like to see all you people complaining set up a Vet practice, with just the basic equipment (this includes x-ray machine, & developer, which you may use once a week if you're lucky!, fluids machine which won't get much use unless you use it routinely for every surgery, ultrasonic descaler for dentals - again once a week?, oh and your basic anaesthetic machine, and autoclave), a fully stocked surgery (with expensive meds you may not even use ie snake antivenom), computer system etc, employ a Vet and support staff, and run it as a profit like you're all suggesting! I'll come stock up on free scripts, or cheap drugs, before you close in a month if your lucky (I won't work for you though, as you'd never be able to pay me!).

:rofl:

Also comparing a local Vet to a specialist centre is like comparing chalk & cheese. They will use their state of the are equipment more, will stock less drugs, and charge more for consults. If you need any ongoing drugs, you can get those from your local Vet.

-WithEverythingIAm

WEIA is

No one seems willing to take me up on the above offer... I was hoping for cheap meds & free scripts...

Woe is me.

-WithEverythingIAm

[stormie]

it is the duty of the Australian Veterinary Association to protect patients (of the four legged kind) from profiteering practices who tip their scales in favour of money over animal welfare.

AVA only has control over paid up members. More than 2/3 of the vets in this country refuse to join that organisation. So here's another novel approach - only use the services of an AVA member. Goodluck finding one.

That's interesting. I wonder why? Because vets don't like being told what to do? Perhaps because the AVA doesn't approve of hidden charges and supports full cost disclosure?

you're kidding right?

I still don't understand what the problem is. What you guys are asking, if for vets to reduce the mark up on their products they sell. The mark-ups have been calculated to ensure they earn a profit. Lose this profit, and your local vet goes out of business.

If this thread hasn't gone kaput by tomorrow, I'll let you know what the REAL mark up is on certain things first hand, not from 'your mates'.

I'm genuinely curious - why is it that GPs, lawyers, builders, plumbers, electricians etc etc are keen to join the relevant governing body that endorses their work and in return requires that some guidelines be followed, whereas vets are NOT willing to do so?

because it costs them a fortune to join and they don't get anything out of it!

Isn't membership of professional associations tax deductible?

Hmmm ... maybe the AVA should advertise that their members don't price gouge on medication!

I think you should find out a bit more about the AVA and what its there for before you start making assumptions.

When you go to the chemist for your drugs, you are going to a shop. They just sell you the drugs that your doctor has prescribed. They dont often talk to you about the drugs they are selling you. You give them your script, they stick a label on it, you pay and walk out. They just sell stuff - its all they do so they have very little overheads. A vet, on the other hand, does the consult, decides on the best medication, its suitability and explains the medication for you.

Chemists also have a much faster turnover of drugs than vets do. We have to spend money on drugs which could be sitting on the shelf until they expire, just in case an animal needs them. And because of this, we can't buy in bulk like chemists can and do.