Vet Medication Charges

[Cosmolo]

What PPS said. You cannot blame vets for owners choosing to dump their animals or have them pts- owners decide that, not vets.

[stormie]

Other businesses DO do that! I work for a major international law firm and we regularly tell new clients to go to smaller firms because we can't do the work in a way that would be economical to them. We could "screw" a client thousands for a debt collection, but don't. We tell them to go to a debt collection firm who can do the job quickly efficiently and economically.

Major international law firm - did not realise there were any of those (jurisdictional/ different legal system issues and all).

What you tell clients is part of your professional obligation on costs disclosure. You are required (by law) to disclose your costs. The client can still instruct you to do the work or go elsewhere.

No comparison between lawyers and vets...

To clarify (since I obviously need to) an international law firm has offices in a number of countries <sigh>. The people I'm taking about are those who get the firm's name from the phone book and call up unannounced. That's long before the engagement letter stage which includes full cost disclosure and estimate of total fees. Clients only receive that once we agree to take on the matter.

Perhaps vets should be forced to disclose their costs and charges too, eh? At least make them readily available without the client having to ask.

oh for goodness sake. So you think we should have a folder in the waiting room stating all our fees, costs of foods, drugs, surgery etc etc etc? Or when I greet people at the door, should I have a mini consult with them so I can give them a rough quote of how much their visit is going to be?

The answer to all of this is simple. Vet fees are what they are. If you think its too expensive, then don't have pets.

People really are becoming so obsessed with themselves. The 'need to know' everything is just insane. You should be greatful that your vet is a 'one stop shop' where you can get a consult and treatment all at the same time. It's not different to taking yourselves to the doctor. You don't know what script the doctor is going to give you when you see him. Nor do you know how much it's going to be when you then have to go to the pharmacy to get it filled. Yep, your antibiotics might be cheaper than your dogs, but that's not the vets fault, that's the drug manufacturers.

[caffiend42]

The responses to this thread are understandable and predictable.

Is this an admission of trolling then? Clearly, you're not liking the answers to your statements/questions. What did you want, a mutual backslapping society?

I fail to see why vets are obliged to barely cover their costs on the basis that they're doing vet work for the love of it. Yes, there are many people who can't afford vet treatment - but that's THEIR issue, and not the fault of the vet, unless they're YOUR vet mates, poodle3081.

[Crisovar]

As stated in an earlier reply I have friends in the industry. I note that no one has disputed the quoted cost price figures to Vets.

Your cost price figures mean screw all, the cost price of products varies greatly from supplier to supplier, as do the freight charges.

[harper]

It would be nice to think that have some form of moral obligation to treat every animal at cost price and go bankrupt in the process, but this is the real world and it's a job that they have the right to be paid for and make a profit from , just like any other.

Wish I could find a dentist with that form of moral obligation.

Every time I get my car serviced I have no idea what added parts I will need to pay for and neither does the mechanic until he has given the car a good look over. You don't think those parts are marked up quite a bit?

I have sourced my own parts for my car, as I have also gotten scripts from the vets before but that is only because the situations called for it at the time and I had done my own research.

I have spent over $100 in the past week on medications for my dog. I have no issue with that and if I did I would discuss it directly with my vet.

[poodle3081]

The responses to this thread are understandable and predictable.

Is this an admission of trolling then? Clearly, you're not liking the answers to your statements/questions. What did you want, a mutual backslapping society?

I fail to see why vets are obliged to barely cover their costs on the basis that they're doing vet work for the love of it. Yes, there are many people who can't afford vet treatment - but that's THEIR issue, and not the fault of the vet, unless they're YOUR vet mates, poodle3081.

The statement re understandable and predictable relate to the vet industry. I expect them to justify their charges. It is the same when the community challenges petrol prices, do you expect the oil companies and employees to agree?

[Crisovar]

One thing is really clear in this thread, and in others like it that appear here from time to time, and that is that many people are simply after cheap services and not in building a good solid working relationship with the service provider.

Good customers are always on the receiving end of "special treatment" in most vet clinics, lots of little extras do not get billed for, staff time not billed for, long term medication discounted, very expensive drugs discounted etc. Joe Blow off the street does not not get the same treatment and why should they,

They will be off down the road at the drop of a hat.

[stormie]

It is interesting that some people do not care what the mark up is and that is a personal choice but he point of this post was to highlight that many do.

I don't like making comparisons with other professions but as an example if an Electrician claimed his hourly rate was $100 and he arrived at your house to do a repair that took him 1 hour and the bill was $500 that is $100 time plus $400 for materials. Would this be acceptable? The answer is yes if you believe the material cost is reasonable. If you were then told the cost of the material to the Electrician was $50 would you still feel the same? The fact is most people have a sense of justice and fairness in our society and they resent being ripped off with hidden charges.

If that was what was needed, then I'd be fine with that, because I needed to call an electrician to use his skills and expertise to do a job that I was unable to do myself.

Poodle - can I ask what you are basing your mark up examples on? Are you comparing the cost of the same eye ointment from a chemist and a vet, and concluding a huge mark-up on the vets side? Without working in the industry yourself, where are you getting this information from to make these assumptions about massive mark ups? Or is it all second or third hand information?

As stated in an earlier reply I have friends in the industry. I note that no one has disputed the quoted cost price figures to Vets.

which cost price figures???

still waiting??

[Danois]

The statement re understandable and predictable relate to the vet industry. I expect them to justify their charges. It is the same when the community challenges petrol prices, do you expect the oil companies and employees to agree?

Community challenging fuel prices is so far unrelated its in friggin' Siberia.

Fuel Prices have high components of government taxes and charges in them.

[witheverythingiam]

:rolleyes:

I'd like to see all you people complaining set up a Vet practice, with just the basic equipment (this includes x-ray machine, & developer, which you may use once a week if you're lucky!, fluids machine which won't get much use unless you use it routinely for every surgery, ultrasonic descaler for dentals - again once a week?, oh and your basic anaesthetic machine, and autoclave), a fully stocked surgery (with expensive meds you may not even use ie snake antivenom), computer system etc, employ a Vet and support staff, and run it as a profit like you're all suggesting! I'll come stock up on free scripts, or cheap drugs, before you close in a month if your lucky (I won't work for you though, as you'd never be able to pay me!).

:laugh:

Also comparing a local Vet to a specialist centre is like comparing chalk & cheese. They will use their state of the are equipment more, will stock less drugs, and charge more for consults. If you need any ongoing drugs, you can get those from your local Vet.

-WithEverythingIAm

Edited June 7, 2009 by witheverythingiam

[witheverythingiam]

Even if its true (which i don't think it is for most) that vets are earning millions of dollars a year- whats the problem? Why should a vet caring for your pet be less worthy of high salaries and profit than a business manager or CEO?

Well I can say now - in the Vet Surgery I was working at (a 2 Vet, 3 nurse practice), we were lucky to get an average of $30K a month profit after all staff, accounts, and rent were paid. Not much in the grand scheme of things.

-WithEverythingIAm

[Crisovar]

Next time I have to do a special rushed Friday afternoon drug order to obtain something urgent for a client that isn't normally on our shelves, when I neglect to add the weekend freight surcharge onto the account and don't charge for driving 12 km in to the freight depot at 6am to pick up the parcel because we don't get weekend delivery, I shall think of this thread.

[Kavik]

My vet is happy to tell me how much medication is going to cost in the consult before I have gotten it. My last consult ( a follow up to Diesel's skin problems) we discussed various options for treatment, some human antihistamines I could try if I wanted, the price for the ones they stocked, the price for some other medication (which even the vet said due to its high price they had never sold any! I don't think that was due to mark up - everyone has said that was expensive).

[witheverythingiam]

As stated in an earlier reply I have friends in the industry. I note that no one has disputed the quoted cost price figures to Vets.

Maybe because they, like myself, have never heard of them? But then I worked in a small practice, and didn't have a hugely stocked pharmacy.

Oh and I know what products we bought cost us, because I did all the ordering in our practice. I only ordered what we needed when we needed it, and we had minimal write-offs because I was on the ball. The computer might have said we needed something, but really we used it that rarely that it could wait a month or 2 until we really did need it.

-WithEverythingIAm

[poodle3081]

The statement re understandable and predictable relate to the vet industry. I expect them to justify their charges. It is the same when the community challenges petrol prices, do you expect the oil companies and employees to agree?

Community challenging fuel prices is so far unrelated its in friggin' Siberia.

Fuel Prices have high components of government taxes and charges in them.

You continually miss the point Danois. I was stating the predictable nature of the replies and gave the oil industry as an example.

Edited June 7, 2009 by poodle3081

[Mum to Emma]

Next time I have to do a special rushed Friday afternoon drug order to obtain something urgent for a client that isn't normally on our shelves, when I neglect to add the weekend freight surcharge onto the account and don't charge for driving 12 km in to the freight depot at 6am to pick up the parcel because we don't get weekend delivery, I shall think of this thread.

Assuming the drug is also prescribed for human use and available at a pharmacy (and that's all we're discussing here - as far as I know chemists don't sell animal remedy only medication), why don't you just give them a prescription and tell them to get the drug themselves?

Edited June 7, 2009 by Mum to Emma

[Mum to Emma]

One thing is really clear in this thread, and in others like it that appear here from time to time, and that is that many people are simply after cheap services and not in building a good solid working relationship with the service provider.

Good customers are always on the receiving end of "special treatment" in most vet clinics, lots of little extras do not get billed for, staff time not billed for, long term medication discounted, very expensive drugs discounted etc. Joe Blow off the street does not not get the same treatment and why should they,

They will be off down the road at the drop of a hat.

Good to see where your priorities are (not)! Forget the animal, eh?

[Mum to Emma]

It is interesting that some people do not care what the mark up is and that is a personal choice but he point of this post was to highlight that many do.

I don't like making comparisons with other professions but as an example if an Electrician claimed his hourly rate was $100 and he arrived at your house to do a repair that took him 1 hour and the bill was $500 that is $100 time plus $400 for materials. Would this be acceptable? The answer is yes if you believe the material cost is reasonable. If you were then told the cost of the material to the Electrician was $50 would you still feel the same? The fact is most people have a sense of justice and fairness in our society and they resent being ripped off with hidden charges.

If that was what was needed, then I'd be fine with that, because I needed to call an electrician to use his skills and expertise to do a job that I was unable to do myself.

Poodle - can I ask what you are basing your mark up examples on? Are you comparing the cost of the same eye ointment from a chemist and a vet, and concluding a huge mark-up on the vets side? Without working in the industry yourself, where are you getting this information from to make these assumptions about massive mark ups? Or is it all second or third hand information?

As stated in an earlier reply I have friends in the industry. I note that no one has disputed the quoted cost price figures to Vets.

which cost price figures???

still waiting??

I am not disputing the cost vets pay for the medicine. But where it is available to the patient at a cheaper price (such as a chemist) vets should make that option known and available, and not profit from people's ignorance.

[WreckitWhippet]

Next time I have to do a special rushed Friday afternoon drug order to obtain something urgent for a client that isn't normally on our shelves, when I neglect to add the weekend freight surcharge onto the account and don't charge for driving 12 km in to the freight depot at 6am to pick up the parcel because we don't get weekend delivery, I shall think of this thread.

Assuming the drug is also prescribed for human use and available at a pharmacy (and that's all we're discussing here - as far as I know chemists don't sell animal remedy only medication), why don't you just give them a prescription and tell them to get the drug themselves?

Would people pay the costs of medication if it was not covered under the PBS ?

Fido Jones is not on anyone's medicare card and medications would not be available to Fido at the same rate as you would expect to pay for youself.

[Mum to Emma]

Other businesses DO do that! I work for a major international law firm and we regularly tell new clients to go to smaller firms because we can't do the work in a way that would be economical to them. We could "screw" a client thousands for a debt collection, but don't. We tell them to go to a debt collection firm who can do the job quickly efficiently and economically.

Major international law firm - did not realise there were any of those (jurisdictional/ different legal system issues and all).

What you tell clients is part of your professional obligation on costs disclosure. You are required (by law) to disclose your costs. The client can still instruct you to do the work or go elsewhere.

No comparison between lawyers and vets...

To clarify (since I obviously need to) an international law firm has offices in a number of countries <sigh>. The people I'm taking about are those who get the firm's name from the phone book and call up unannounced. That's long before the engagement letter stage which includes full cost disclosure and estimate of total fees. Clients only receive that once we agree to take on the matter.

Perhaps vets should be forced to disclose their costs and charges too, eh? At least make them readily available without the client having to ask.

oh for goodness sake. So you think we should have a folder in the waiting room stating all our fees, costs of foods, drugs, surgery etc etc etc? Or when I greet people at the door, should I have a mini consult with them so I can give them a rough quote of how much their visit is going to be?

The answer to all of this is simple. Vet fees are what they are. If you think its too expensive, then don't have pets.

People really are becoming so obsessed with themselves. The 'need to know' everything is just insane. You should be greatful that your vet is a 'one stop shop' where you can get a consult and treatment all at the same time. It's not different to taking yourselves to the doctor. You don't know what script the doctor is going to give you when you see him. Nor do you know how much it's going to be when you then have to go to the pharmacy to get it filled. Yep, your antibiotics might be cheaper than your dogs, but that's not the vets fault, that's the drug manufacturers.

But YOU have the chance to shop around for the cheapest way to fill that prescription, or not get it filled at all. Whereas the vet gives you no option (hence the suspicion over the high prices). Any why shouldn't vets be open to the disclosure obligaions that are imposed on other professions?

Where not talking here about cortisone injections, IV fluids etc etc. We're talking about medication that is to be used after the pet goes home and is available on prescription from a pharmacy. When Emma was on Trental I was paying about $1 a day for the chemist medication. The specialist was charging the pills at $2.50 a day. That's about an extra $550 a year! And do you know what an annual check up with the specialist involved (required for a repeat prescription)? A quick glance a her ear tips, and a $85 bill. I had no problem with the consultation fee. I'm paying for his specialist expertise. I DO have a problem with the way the hidden extra charge of $550 a year they tried to impose until I insisted on a prescription.