Kavik Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I am really frustrated with Diesel, don't think I am going to bother to try training him anymore . Don't get me wrong, he has fine manners for a pet, walks nicely on lead, doesn't pull, is fine with other dogs and enjoys the dog park to wander and sniff. But he has absolutely no interest in training. I was trying to do some training with him this morning, and he would barely look at me, went to another part of the yard instead He is a bit better on walks, will actually do something and not avoid me, but in the yard he will almost actively avoid me when I want to do some training. I am only doing motivational stuff, send to toy/food, some clicker work to find heel position, fronts etc nothing difficult. I have probably spent close to $10,000 on his medical problems, and it is so frustrating that he doesn't even want to do anything at all. I don't have the time, energy and quickly running out of patience to try to motivate a dog who really does not want to be there. I get better responses and work from Zoe who is 9 1/2 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I know how frustrating it can be when the dog is not motivated! Have you read "Ruff Love" by Susan Garrett? Maybe some ideas there might help? (I am happy to lend it to you if you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) One thing that I've found has worked with Zig (who, as laffi well knows, would MUCH prefer to be off sniffing and marking his territory than training!) has been to make him work for EVERY scrap of food he gets. I've started to back off on this (as he eats a LOT and it takes forever to get through 4 cups of dry food ) but his motivation is much better - last night he even stopped eating from his Buster Cube but was bouncing out of his skin when I started throwing dry food for him and asked him to do a few exercises. It's not been an easy road with Ziggy so I can really feel your pain! What's your current approach with him? Edited June 4, 2009 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 The thing is he doesn't seem to be motivated to do anything at all He is sooo lazy and just wants to lie down (apart from some playing with Kaos and chasing the postman). We are trialling him on some new antihistamines. He was better on the ones from the vet (Iramine) and we are trialling Polaramine because it is cheaper but he was much brighter and more energetic on Iramine. I feel really bad though because the only time he wants to work and is happy is when he is on medication (Iramine or when he is on cortisone - as these make him hungry) I feel bad that I am excited when I know he will be on medication that makes him hungry as I know he will be better and more fun to train. Anyone want a very medically expensive but quiet and relaxed, well behaved housedog? I'll swap you for an energetic outgoing nutty dog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Kavik, are you saying that the lack of motivation (for want of a better word) could be medically related? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monah Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Don't feel bad Kavik!! He sounds good in every other way, if it's frustrating, just give it a break. I completely understand, hugs I'm a terrible trainer, so I wont even attempt any halfcrap advice xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 It makes no difference if I don't feed him or feed him less or feed him when training - he still won't work, he will just lose weight. He is not distracted by smells, he doesn't want to run off somewhere, he doesn't want to play, he doesn't want to do ANYTHING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Kavik - I read your post re Diesel and thought Ptolomy will back me up here if she sees this but it just sounded like one of many emails I have written to her over the years regarding Ness. She just wasn't interested and I have long been through the "I Give Up With Training" thought pattern. Harder for me because at the time I was comtemplating this I didn't have another dog to train. Much easier now as I just go oh well Ness you don't want to train thats fine by me. I know where you are coming from with the not having the energy to train. Its even harder when the contrast to dog 2 is so apparent. I get my youngster out and she is bursting at the seams to try even without the presence of food or toys. She just loves to work. In the end I wonder if its worth it - just enjoy the dogs for who they are. Having said that I have persisted with Ness as she reinforces me randomly enough to think there is hope. If she was continually going nah I don't want to then I probably wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 about the swapping bit - hmmmm actually I quite like my mellowed couch potato sometimes (especially compared to her youngster sister who wakes up full of life - my sleep ins exist no longer and she is now 14 months old so I thought she might start letting me sleep in again ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 I'm not sure if the lack of motivation is medically related, I've wondered it for some time, but have no idea how to tell or how to test it. Really the only times he is happy and tail up when training is when he is on medication that is known to make dogs hungry. He just seems generally quite depressed, ears down, tail down. I've wondered for a while if there is something more serious medically wrong with him than skin problems, but vet hasn't been able to find anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claireybell Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 One thing that I've found has worked with Zig (who, as laffi well knows, would MUCH prefer to be off sniffing and marking his territory than training!) has been to make him work for EVERY scrap of food he gets. I've started to back off on this (as he eats a LOT and it takes forever to get through 4 cups of dry food ) but his motivation is much better - last night he even stopped eating from his Buster Cube but was bouncing out of his skin when I started throwing dry food for him and asked him to do a few exercises.It's not been an easy road with Ziggy so I can really feel your pain! What's your current approach with him? Do you happen to go to Hastings Dog Club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Do you happen to go to Hastings Dog Club? Yes PM me if you like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laeral Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 So sorry to hear your having troubles with Diesel, Kavik. Obviously Im no a trainer so cant offer any advice, maybe a break will do him some good? He seems like such a lovely boy. Could his lack of energy be related to his medical issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 His lack of energy could be related to medical problems, but I have no idea how to tell. I think I got a broken GSD - certainly not energetic, or in the least protective, he'd probably just lie there and let a bad guy step over him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickasyoucan Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 His lack of energy could be related to medical problems, but I have no idea how to tell.I think I got a broken GSD - certainly not energetic, or in the least protective, he'd probably just lie there and let a bad guy step over him You can borrow my dog for training, he is way too energetic for a 6-7 year old dog with an allegedly dodgy hip socket (he's never shown signs of it bothering him). It's like yeah we've done that, now what are we going to do next... oh and do you want to play ball. Some days couch potato would be just fine, but then again we always want what we can't have! I can't say I empathise but I definitely sympathise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 At the end of the day, training our dogs should be FUN! That's not to say it's easy but it should be enjoyable. Has anyone else tried handling him? Someone with a really good track record in motivating dogs. Maybe just to see if you are affecting him with your body language (particularly if you're feeling a bit down). I would take the pressure off both of you and go back to some really basic conditioning exercises - e.g. "Diesel!" *treat* (oh, and if he's not food motivated, try some blood pudding...sliced thinly and dried in the microwave - Sue Hogben swears by it!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natsu chan Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Kavik have you taken him to a chiro? or tried acupuncture or something like that. Koori is quite like your boy and she's totally disinterested when her back is tight and sore she too will actively avoid me if I going into training mode and she's not feeling the best. It might just be him of course, but I think you said once before he wasn't naturally the least bit food motivated. Did you try toys or verbal physical praise in the end? It's hard and frustrating sometimes isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 He is food motivated, and will sometimes work well for food, but other times not that interested. Will normally work well for his dinner. But if I try say doing sends to dry food (using his dinner) at other times of the day, he is not that keen. I tried having OH do a little bit with him, as he and OH get on well, I can't say he was that much better really. Was a struggle though, OH doesn't want to do anything with the dogs. I haven't tried a chiro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 you have several reasons 1) medical. He's not really in the mood for structured training 2) your method is not right for the dog. Its either not structured enough, not motivating him enough etc 3) What you are doing is not suited to him, he's bored of the exercises and you Why does it have to be food based? He's a bit old for that particularly if he's not a big food lover. Toys, pack company etc are other ways to do it. As for Ruff Love I need to borrow that book and read up on it ... that is removing all stimulus from the dog so it works better and bonds to you better but I dont know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 He won't work reliably for toys - today he just looked at it and walked away. He likes a pat but I can't see him liking it THAT much, not enough for primary reinforcer for training. Zoe is 9 1/2 and still works very well for food! You are probably right that what I am doing doesn't suit him, but I really don't know what to do. He would prefer just to mind his own business. He enjoys walks but I don't think he would go mental if I didn't walk him. I know I couldn't be bothered to do the remove all stimulus from the dog thing - really apart from everything else I can't see that it could make much difference. He just doesn't care about anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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