kja Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 We went to the vet for annual shots/check up today and the vet says that Til has a heart murmur. She said that it's about a 2 and the scale goes to 6. She gave us some meds and said that she expected Til would have to be on them for life (at $150/month!). I got some very general information from the vet but I'm still not clear on what the heart murmur is, if it's a danger, if there are things we can do other than drugs etc. Vet said she needs a heart xray as soon as possible and that's a 4 hour drive for us. Vet mentioned that an ultrasound would be great but that they can't do those so an xray will work. It is possible for hubby to take Til to Perth with him this weekend so we can take her to a vet that can actually do an ultrasound. But do we need to do that or is an xray fine? Basically any info and help you can provide would be great...thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverblue Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 A grade 2 seems fairly low to be starting on meds, what tablets did they give you ? Misty has a grade 5/6 & has just started on meds, which have made a huge difference to her life. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I would head done to perth for a second opinion.I dare say your vet has suggested Murdoch??? I gather the meds are vetmedin or similiar at that cost & there usually when its very bad so not sure there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I had a dally with a low grade murmur who's heart xay also showed hre heart sat too high in the chest cavity. She was never on heart meds and lived too a decent age before dying from cancer. The murmur never stopped her doing obedience, agility or leading a normal life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundoglover Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 It is worthwhile having the murmur investigated. Murmurs can have multiple causes - holes, valve problems, dog breathing heavily while being ausculated, etc. An xray will show structural deformities but won't show flow problems. For that you need a doppler ultrasound. I would take the trouble to have the investigation because it has been known for dogs to have idiopathic murmurs with no disease. It would be a pity for your dog to be on medication unnecessarily. If I were you I would contact the closest university veterinary school and see if they have the equipment and will do the test cheaply (to train students). This way you will get an opinion from a specialist veterinary cardiologist on the teaching faculty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 My girl has a murmur but a grade 1 to 1.5. Last time we were at our vet she said she could hardly hear it. Paxy's murmur was there when I got her at 7 1/2 weeks and I hoped it would fix itself. When she was desexed I had her heart checked again and they confirmed it was still there. Because I want to do dog sports with her such as obedience, agility and maybe some herding I wanted to know more so I knew where I stood and what could happen down the track. So my vet gave me a referral to the clinic in Sydney where they did a colour Doppler ultrasound to measure the flow rate into and around the heart. I would certainly get a second opinion and get an ultrasound. Vets have never mentioned medication to me, just to watch out for signs of stress in her breathing which are more likely to appear with old age but I do notice a slight difference in her recovery rate on really hot days if she's been running around to what I would consider the norm. They also recommended to keep her weight down, not that it's been a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavandra Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Grade 2 is low & doesnt require medication.........could even be a "transient" murmur! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kja Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Thanks so much, everyone! We didn't start her on the meds yesterday as we wanted more information before jumping off that bridge. The vet suggested no second opinion or the need for options. Even when she said an ultrasound was better and was the way to see all they needed to, she still said the xray would "do" because they didn't have ultrasound equipment. That & the immediate meds before really knowing what was going on were the red flags for me. We are going to see a vet in Perth who is the vet for most of our family there ... if she can't get us in, then we'll try for Murdoch, who have taken great care of our other girls - never cheaply but always fabulously The meds are Fortekor Flavour 20 (benazepril hydrochloride). 1 tab/day (when we drop a few kilos off her she'll be on 1/2 per day). Vet wouldn't give Til her annual injection either, so now she's overdue for that. Won't give it to her until they've done the xray she says. She barely breaths hard after going crazy on our beach walks and recovers very quickly, so I have few concerns on those types of things we can see. It's all the other stuff that's worrying! Again, thanks so much for your opinions and information! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevafollo Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Our Old maltese x has had a murmur all his life and it was classed at 2 level for years and years then at about age 11 he started doing weird things like staring at walls ect and when we took him for a check up they upgraded him to a 6, he was doing the weird things because his heart wasnt pumping the blood around his body properly, and they then started him on medication and he hasnt done anything odd since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Until you know the cause of the murmur, I'd keep her on the Fortekor. The vet has obviously noted that this murmur is new, so without knowing the cause, its hard to know whether its going to continue to worsen so probably best to follow the vets advice for now. If the medication is too expensive and you don't want to give it, then atleast make sure you have regular checks done to listen to the heart. I'm assuming the vet ruled out heartworm or an infection as the cause of the murmur, so if it were me, I'd go for the ultrasound. It's more expensive, but will be able to tell you more including the likelyhood of progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kja Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) If the medication is too expensive and you don't want to give it, then atleast make sure you have regular checks done to listen to the heart. We're not worried about the cash, we just don't want her on meds she doesn't need to be on. I'm assuming the vet ruled out heartworm or an infection as the cause of the murmur, so if it were me, I'd go for the ultrasound. It's more expensive, but will be able to tell you more including the likelyhood of progression. I'm not sure how she could have. All she did was look at her gums, listen to her heart. take her temp (normal) and feel her tummy. No other tests were done and the vet did not even give her the c5 shot we went in for. Also, there was a mixup on the vet's end ... we switched to the heartworm shot last year and the vet was meant to update her shot as they should have had a record, but tsomehow the didn't and they were thinking we were still on the tablets and so the heartworm is slightly overdue (scheduled to go in next Wed for that shot as our vet is here only once a week). Edited June 3, 2009 by kja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) I just relayed that from my vets here after they read your post - just trying to help and offer you another vets opinion... If she's been on regular heartworm prevention then its UNlikely she would have heartworm. And if her temp was normal that means unlikely she has an infection. Just saying, in our opinion, until the you know the cause of the murmur, the meds can only help. edited to make sense!! Edited June 4, 2009 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kja Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 If she's been on regular heartworm prevention then its likely she would have heartworm. Just saying, in our opinion, until the you know the cause of the murmur, the meds can only help. I'm confused...because she HAS been on it, she likely has heartworm? I appreciate the information and the suggestions for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 If she's been on regular heartworm prevention then its likely she would have heartworm. Just saying, in our opinion, until the you know the cause of the murmur, the meds can only help. I'm confused...because she HAS been on it, she likely has heartworm? I appreciate the information and the suggestions for sure! oops my bad 'UNLIKELY' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 why does a dog with a grade 2 need to be on ACE inhibitors? Rediculous get a second opinion before the Fortekor! The meds will not stop the heart murmur, they are used in the management of dogs with severe murmurs or in heart failure so they dont drown to death from the inside since the vascular system cannot move the fluids around the body properly. A reasonably healthy dog doesnt need its body levels messed with - my own heart is worst then your dogs and I'm on no meds. Ultrasound is better - poor positioning of the dog can make things appear/dissapear on x-rays. Find a professional for this before the meds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRJ Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 And just a piece more of info: murmors are usually due to something not quite right with the valves and valves can't be seen on xray. Definitely go for the ulrasound as then you will know where the problem is and not just 'she has an enlarged heart suggestive of....' or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) why does a dog with a grade 2 need to be on ACE inhibitors? Rediculous get a second opinion before the Fortekor! Maybe the vet also heart an irregularity? And maybe because that grade 2 heart murmur has only suddenly appeared. I'd rather put my dog on the meds that won't do any harm, only good, until I knew the reason the murmur appeared in the first place. Sorry, but I think it's highly irresponsible for people to be telling someone to stop their dogs medication, when they know nothing about dogs condition. Edited June 4, 2009 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kja Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Update: MatildaLily is off to Perth with hubby on Saturday and her ultrasound is scheduled for Monday morning :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Update: MatildaLily is off to Perth with hubby on Saturday and her ultrasound is scheduled for Monday morning Good idea From what I know the "grade" of a heart murmur just means how loud it sounds to the vet when listening to it through a stethoscope. The grade isn't necessarily directly related to how serious the underlying condition is - sometimes serious defects can sound quiet, and innocent murmurs can be loud. So it's definately worthwhile getting it properly checked out, IMO. Hope it all goes OK for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redangel Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 At 12 weeks my local vet diagnosed my little poodle girl with a heart murmur. Wanting to know how what why (and what future she had) I went to a cardiac specialist. They recommended ultrasound to get an idea of structure,flow and appearance of the heart. On her first visit she was diagnosed a 1-2. All was structually fine and no abnormalities were detected..but yes she had a murmur there. After 6 months we repeated the ultrasound and the same result was given. Prognosis was good (the heart was structually sound) and there was no change, she could resume her future in agility and live a full life. No recommended treatment. At first I was disappointed at spending $$ to get no answer, but I did....I got the answer I wanted my girl was going to be just fine! They put it down to a freak occurance, she was healthy but different. I wanted to rule out defects and such for the breeders sake as well. I recommend to anyone to have the proceedure to gain as much knowlege to help your canine friend live a full life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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