JulesP Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 Yep was much smoother. Depending on whether she picks up speed I might end up doing running contacts in a comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Great to hear her progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 She passed her Contacts module last night so just advanced weaves to go before we do sequencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) So you have to do all the equipment separately before you do any sequencing? EFS Edited June 23, 2009 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 We do 4 weeks of prep, then 4 weeks on each bit of equipment (30 min sessions) including jumps. Weaves and contacts have 2 levels. Some of the equipment is done together ie tables & tyres was one module. Then 6 weeks sequencing before we go into intermediate class. You have to pass a test for each piece of equipment. Some people might have to do multiple modules of the one piece of equipment. Last night in the intermediate class they had a full agility course set up, a Greg Derrett jumping grid and 2 smaller courses (a dog walk & jumps and a weaves & jumps). We rotated through the 4 courses. I usually get home pretty knackered! Then the triallers/instructors go over the same courses but help each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 That sounds interesting. I don't know of any clubs that have a similar structure. What happens if you miss a week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 During the module phase you really can't afford to miss a week unless you can do the training at home. I had done my weave training at home so just had to demonstrate it to pass. Not many people pass each module in the four weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Just be careful doing a four on the floor. I started it with Delta as it seemed like a good idea and she was doing it very naturally. However, as she got more confident and I started phasing the target out I started to realise all the issues with it. To a dog, 1 blade of grass is no different to another blade 2m away and there was really no way to say to her exactly which one she needed to be on. She also started going really fast, jumping off the A-Frame and landing in a drop. When it came down to it, she was still fulfilling the criteria I had set for her. If I was to get her to run through then I may as well have just done a running with her. I started talking to more people about it to try and fix my issues and discovered that Ann Croft, the lady who originally made the behaviour known actually had to retrain her dog too as she was having the same problems. I ended up going with a drop on the end of the contact as it was a good compromise. She still got to lie down which is what she wanted to do, and there was also a definite position in her mind (front feet on grass, back feet on hard surface). Plus going into a drop meant that her weight was well and truly off her shoulders which was something I was quite worried about at the time. Charlie prefers to keep standing in his 2o2o, although he will sometimes sit on the contact if asked to wait for too long. I don't really mind what they do with their body, so long as their feet are right. I figure that going with what the dog feels more natural with is better, as you want the dog to be comfortable or they will not want to continue offering that behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 My dogs don't do anything 'really fast'. I could easily do running contacts with them and am only doing 2o2o to keep people happy. Of course they may turn into lunatics during a trial but I doubt that. If Poppy isn't a lunatic whilst herding (her fav thing) then I doubt she is going to be a lunatic during agility. I am not using a target btw, just asking for a drop as she has good distance signals. Is there a reason I should be using a target? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I am guessing the target would be for independent contacts so you don't have to be right there? Feel free to correct me if I am wrong DeltaCharlie Jules, why won't they let you do running if you wanted to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) With a medium or large dog, I would not recommend someone do running unless: they were committed to teaching it properly as opposed to just letting them run over it (b/c they usually touch it) or they had a fairly unmotivated dog and no real aspiration to change it. I know quite a few people who are stuck in Novice or Excellent b/c they thought there dog would always naturally hit the contact. I don't know any of them who are happy about it. ETA: to be fair, I also know people who have never trained a contact & their dogs never or hardly ever miss them. Edited June 25, 2009 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Vickie - what would you clasify as a medium dog? I have a potentially midget BC and I am undecided about her contacts. I am leaning towards 2o/2o because I think she is small enough (and only weighs 13kg) that there won't be to much strain placed on her anyway. She has done limited contact training so far but I did put her on a lowered a-frame last night along with her sister both in a 2o/2o position. Actually found it a good proofing exercise for my older one as I would send them both onto it have them turn around and assume the 2o/2o. At first the youngster was confused and would break so I would reward Ness for staying put. Kenzie soon realized what was being rewarded . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I would all 400 & 500 dogs as medium & even some of the 300's. I have a potentially midget BC and I am undecided about her contacts. I am leaning towards 2o/2o because I think she is small enough (and only weighs 13kg) that there won't be to much strain placed on her anyway. There are lots of things that could place strain on an agility dog of any size. The biggest one is probably too much repetition...of anything. The next one I would pick would be lack of fitness/warm up, followed by poor jumping style and understanding of timing & cues. I'm not sure where all this "2o2o causes strain" has come from. I have never seen any official study to say so and as Bec mentioned earlier, I was told of a study to say that most of the impact on an AF is taken in the shoulders on the way up and that b/c of this, the repetition required for reliable running contacts is more likely to cause strain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) I'm honestly more worried about the creeping/sliding OK probably due to not properly backchaining before I tried to run him over the A-Frame and expect 2o2o, he wanted to do it, but would slide into it or be really slow once he hit the apex. I have only seen a few good 2o2o performances, most of the dogs I have seen have been slow to get there. May well be due to poor technique rather than anything else. ETA: he is fine when I run with him or go ahead but will slide into position, if I am behind him or stationary he will go slow from apex. Not only A-Frame, it is an issue I am trying to fix in general, getting better with our work on the stairs, he will go ahead there now. Edited June 25, 2009 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 I guess the whole contact thing came about because of super active dogs that were taking massive leaps off obstacles. My dogs just aren't like that. Doubtful that either will get past Novice agility btw. They don't bolt around anywhere - there is lots of slinking and crouching etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Doubtful that either will get past Novice agility btw. They don't bolt around anywhere - there is lots of slinking and crouching etc. but surely you aim to change their enjoyment of agility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 Why do you think they aren't enjoying it? Don't your border collies enjoy slinking and crouching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Sorry I misunderstood your post to mean they weren't enjoying it. My dog's don't slink or crouch at all in agility. The exception might be Trim at the startline, but I would say that relates to stress/anticipation rather than enjoyment. yes my dogs do slink & crouch when they work sheep, but I am not sure they literally enjoy slinking & crouching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 I was trying to explain, badly obviously, how my dogs move about in general. You said that 4 on the floor would work for unmotivated dogs. I don't consider mine even slightly unmotivated. They are just very calm and quiet and don't see the need to go jumping off of A frames when they can walk down them. Calm and quiet does not mean that they are not enjoying their agility. They are just calm and quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I'm not sure where all this "2o2o causes strain" has come from. I have never seen any official study to say so and as Bec mentioned earlier, I was told of a study to say that most of the impact on an AF is taken in the shoulders on the way up and that b/c of this, the repetition required for reliable running contacts is more likely to cause strain. Is there any study work done to say that 2o2o is safe? Common sense says to me that a 22 kg high drive dog landing in a 2o2o off an A-frame is not really that desirable. Rear end awareness work is done all the time, but basic laws of motion dictate that a heavier dog will have more trouble pulling up, no matter how much rear end work you put into them. Thus our 2o2o contact work is pretty sloppy, but I'm not interested in drilling it to perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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