Food, Teeth & Skin - A Bit Long W/pics

[yellowgirl]

I have 2 Chinese Crested kids, Madeline, 3 and Sarge, 9. I've had Madeline for three and a half months and Sarge for four weeks.

Madeline came with a staph infection, clogged skin, a sensitive tummy (and 2kg overweight!) and bad teeth. Sarge came with dry skin and bad teeth. Keep in mind that the two major issues with Cresties are skin and teeth . The hairless rarely have full dentition.

Madeline didn't do too well on a raw diet, so after much research, talking to vets and a bit of trial and error, this is what I make for them:

... all human grade ...

1kg turkey mince (cooked)

1kg mixed veggies (mashed up in the blender)

3 eggs (scrambled)

250g sardines

200g salmon

80g grated cheese

1 desertspoon granulated garlic

1/8 cup olive oil

... There is a lot of fish and oil, as Cresties need plenty of omegas for their skin. I'm definitely open to any advice or suggestions about it though, or any thoughts on the recipe itself.

I pack it into small bags and freeze it.

... oh, and their poops are just perfect I wouldn't say a joy to pick up, but you get the idea

Now, to the teeth (oh boy). They both have the Teenie Greenies, Box 1 biscuits and cut up pigs ears. Madeline has the Science Diet Dental dry and Sarge (because he's a gulper and won't chew the Science Diet) has Advance Dental with the enzymes. I also brush them (well, I certainly try to). I've given them chicken necks and wings but Maddie gets the runs and/or constipated and Sarge won't chew them (just gulps!). I really want them to have some bones so I'm going to get some small lamb necks tomorrow and see how they go with them. The dry food, greenies and box 1 biscuits have certainly made some difference so far.

These are Sarge's teeth. Believe it or not, they have actually improved since he's been here! He really should have a proper dental, but the vet wanted to leave it for a couple of months and do the same dental stuff that I do with Madeline first. Because of his age, he didn't want to put him back under anaesthetic so soon ... he had recently been desexed (done by another vet who forgot to do his teeth ) And yes, that little brown thing in the 3rd pic is a tooth!

And these are Madeline's teeth. I wish I'd taken a pic three months ago. They have improved a LOT ...

Aaaaand skin ....

As mentioned, Madeline has been on antibiotics for the staph. It is getting better, thank goodness.

This is a 'before' pic of her back, just before she went on the ABs ...

Two weeks on antibiotics. You can see the skin is very thick and lots and lots of black dots.

Recent pic. Her skin isn't as thick but still has clumped black dots. They are different to blackheads, almost like a coloured pore. They are not as prevelent as a few weeks ago and they are mostly on her back, sides, rump and back legs. Her tummy has soft, beautiful, perfect skin.

And these white patches are new, they started about 3 weeks ago . They are on her back and neck too.

If anyone is familiar with Crestie skin and able to give me a bit more information about the black dots and the white patches I'd really appreciate it. Sarge has completely different, very soft, smooth skin.

I've been to three different vets and none can explain the white discolouration or what the little black dots are or why the dots are now disappearing in some areas. Is there new skin underneath or something??

So, that's the report for food, teeth and skin I have definitely seen improvements in all areas, but I am very open to any other help, suggestions or advice on any of the topics mentioned.

[puggy_puggy]

Gorgouse doggies.

1kg turkey mince (cooked)

1kg mixed veggies (mashed up in the blender)

3 eggs (scrambled)

250g sardines

200g salmon

80g grated cheese

1 desertspoon granulated garlic

1/8 cup olive oil

First thing I see is the lack of bone. This would throw the calcium to phosphorus ratio way out of whack which isn't good at all.

Why is the turkey mince cooked? Have you tried it raw? Perhaps you can get minced turkey carcusses which would improve the bone ratio.

Why are the eggs cooked? Try blending them with the veggies including shells.

To much fish can also give some dogs the runs.

Try the lamb bones. If they work then you could feed your mix and a lamb bone on alternate days.

Kangaroo bones might be something else to try as they are low in fat and maybe that is what upsets Madeline.

Digestive enzymes might also be useful for Madeline.

As for the skin getting more white spots. I would say that it is detoxing and the white bits are what are supposed to be there but the staph and most likely yeast infection turned the skin black/brown.

[Staranais]

I'd also be worried about the lack of calcium here. There will be a little bit in the fish (if you feed with bones), and a very little bit in the cheese, but in the long term it would be good if you could add some more calcium to the diet from a source such as bone or egg shell.

No idea about the cause of the patches, however I do recall that on the few occasions that my old staffy boy ran through wandering jew, his (naked) belly skin itched and peeled, and once the rash had settled the skin was lighter. It did darken again over a period of a few months. Perhaps you're seeing a similar thing following skin peeling from dryness/staph infection?

[Nekhbet]

I'd ditch the garlic and the cheese - have you tried the Vets All Natural Health Booster powder? (I think it used to be the canine nutritional powder) Its great for making sure they have enough minerals in their diet and vitamins.

http://www.ozpetshop.com.au/product_info.p...roducts_id/1594

omega oils sound ok in the diet I dont see the prob.

odd pingmentation of the skin is I think a healing process of a staph infection ... looking looking but I know that if she has Staph then that would be the cause of it ...

have you tried Lucas Paw Paw ointment on her skin? Its the greatest cure all for everything around this household my boys can come up in blotches and within a day they're cured with the cream.

[yellowgirl]

Thanks so much for your input Puggy-puggy, Staranais and Nekhbet I appreciate the advice.

I'm going to get some lamb bones today and see if I can get some roo bones too. Nekhbet, would the 'Missing Link' be similar to the Booster powder? I can get the Missing Link at a reasonable price and I know they have the Paw paw ointment too. I was thinking it might be worth picking up some glucosamine condroitin powder for Sarge too.

ETA - I forgot to ask Puggy-puggy, would yoghurt or yakult do the same job as digestive enzymes?

Edited June 1, 2009 by yellowgirl

[Nekhbet]

Missing Link Canine Ingredients . . .

Flaxseed, Rice Bran, Primary Dried Yeast, Cane Molasses, Sunflower Seed, Freeze Dried Beef Liver, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Carrot, Ground Beef Bone*, Dried Fish Solubles, Ground Barley Grass, Dried Kelp, Freeze Dried Oyster Powder, Zinc Monomethionine, Lecithin, Chromium Yeast, Selenium Yeast, Niacin (Vitamin B3), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Garlic Powder, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1), Folic Acid, and Vitamin B12 Supplement.

Missing Link Canine Plus Ingredients . . .

Flaxseed, Glucosamine, Freeze Dried Beef Liver, Cane Molasses, Rice Bran, Primary Dried Yeast, Sunflower Seed, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Carrot, Ground Beef Bone*, Dried Fish Solubles, Freeze Dried Oyster Powder, Ground Barley Grass, Dried Kelp, Zinc Monomethionine, Lecithin, Chromium Yeast, Selenium Yeast, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Niacin (Vitamin B3), Garlic Powder, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1), Folic Acid, and Vitamin B12 Supplement.

VAN

Contains: dolomite, flax seed meal, dried liver, brewers yeast, kelp, lecithin, parsely powder, barley grass, milk thistle, grape seed extract, ginger, green tea, wheat germ, vitamin C, garlic, colostrum, shark cartilage, zinc chelate, boron. Provides significant levels of B complex vitamins, vitamin A, C, D, E & K, along with a broad spectrum of macro and micro minerals and potent antioxidants.

VAN comes with the shark cartilage in there

look at how much you need to use in your mixes too - there seems to be more 'meal' type substances in missing link, I have never used it is it a powder or granules? I have used the VAN before it lasted me well over a year

Edited June 1, 2009 by Nekhbet

[yellowgirl]

Thank you for all that info Nekhbet . I found this company too ... http://www.greenpet.com.au/pet-shop/cart.p...;category_id=69 They have the VAN for $30.90. I couldn't find any info on postage so I've sent them an email, and also asked about some of their ointments.

The Missing Link is a powder. I've used it before when I had a Shepherd who was in a very poor state when I got her. I will look into the VAN a bit more though, that looks really good. How much do you use? eg. grams per bodyweight. Madeline weighs 7kg and Sarge weighs 6kg.

Edited June 1, 2009 by yellowgirl

[Nekhbet]

I used a tbsp per day per dog - that was the old powder and 25kg + ... errr you probably less hehehe I always start them on half of what the recommended dosage is and work up from there.

http://www.naturalequipment.com.au/~natura...products_id=347

$28.15

http://www.ozpetshop.com.au/product_info.p...roducts_id/1594

$24.60

I can't find a dosage for this new powder anywhere!

[puggy_puggy]

How have the lamb bones gone?

ETA - I forgot to ask Puggy-puggy, would yoghurt or yakult do the same job as digestive enzymes?

No you need to actually buy powdered capsules. Either from the health food shop or online. Discuss this with your vet. Maddie might be a dog that actually doesn't produce digestive enzymes naturally so has trouble digesting food.

I forgot to say that with the brown/black skin my boy pug used to get brown/black horrible skin in his groin area from yeast infections. I would say that is exactly why Maddies skin is brown/black. Give it a few months and you will probably see a massive improvement and more white spots.

[yellowgirl]

I wasn't able to get out today (bummer) , so will definitely be getting bones tomorrow.

Maddie might be a dog that actually doesn't produce digestive enzymes naturally so has trouble digesting food.

Madeline's tummy has been much better since we switched to cooked food, although her initial troubles may have had a lot to do with the fact that she was very nervous and insecure when she first came here. She wasn't socialised at all, so I imagine her tummy would have been quite knotted with anxiety. We've had no problems for the past two months ;) so it could be a combination of the cooked food plus gaining some confidence. The only issue was with the chicken necks, she would get constipated, followed shortly by the runs :p

I forgot to say that with the brown/black skin my boy pug used to get brown/black horrible skin in his groin area from yeast infections. I would say that is exactly why Maddies skin is brown/black. Give it a few months and you will probably see a massive improvement and more white spots.

That makes sense. Her skin was pretty bad. I've bought some anti-fungal cream as well and have been putting that on every couple of days. She also has a Malaseb wash twice a week. She was on Cephalexin twice a day for 4 weeks and then the vet switched her to Baytril (stronger AB) about 3 weeks ago. I wonder what the usual recovery time-frame is for this type of infection?

Edited June 1, 2009 by yellowgirl

[Chocolate]

Yellowgirl this will get rid of the plaque on the teeth without the need to go to the vet and under aneasthetic.

http://www.naturalpaws.com.au/grooming-tee...roduct-360.html

I've used it on my dogs and it works a treat.

[yellowgirl]

Hey, thanks Chocolate

PetzLife Oral Care Gel is 100% natural. It has been tested by an independent lab and found to be perfectly safe for your pet's.There are no side effects and is even safe enough to use on people! The main ingredient is grapefruit seed extract. Here is the full list of ingredients: Grapefruit seed extract, Grape seed extract, Thyme oil, Neem oil, Rosemary oil, and Peppermint oil. These are all specially formulated with distilled water and grain alcohol to produce one of the most effective and safest dental products ever produced.

Natural Ingredients Safe for dogs, cats... even humans Doctor formulated in FDA approved facility.

I don't know if I'm just getting more suspicious these days, but the write-up put me off a bit. They don't name the Doctor who formulated it or the name of the approved facility.

Does anyone know if the blend of ingredients mentioned above would actually remove plaque? Oh, another thing ... I think the teeth in the demonstration picture is fake ... the tooth second from the left is a different shape in the 'after' shot ;) ... (just had another look, so is the third tooth).

Sorry about my negative nelly attitude here Chocolate :p I do appreciate your help . It's just that $50 plus postage is a lot to invest in something I'm not sure about. What sort of condition were your dog's teeth in and how long before you saw results?

Has anyone else tried this product?

[puggy_puggy]

Oh, another thing ... I think the teeth in the demonstration picture is fake ... the tooth second from the left is a different shape in the 'after' shot ... (just had another look, so is the third tooth).

The teeth in the second picture all seem to be different shapes to the first one. I would be suspicious as well.

[yellowgirl]

Just reading about probiotics in another thread... in the Breeder's section so I couldn't post questions.

Two products were suggested ... Protexin - http://www.vetstop.com.au/Shop/shopdisplay....asp?Search=Yes

and PAW probiotic powder - http://www.paw4pets.com/faq.html#probiotic

I can have a look at the PAW powder tomorrow, according to their website a health food shop a few kms away sells it.

I'll be picking up some bones tomorrow too .

[yellowgirl]

Got the bones today! :p I went to the butchers and got fresh lamb necks and asked them to cut them about 2cm thick. Then while I was in Woolies, I saw they had lamb bone offcuts in the pet section fridge, so I grabbed them as well Well, they went down a real treat! It took them a few minutes to get into it (not sure if they've ever had bones before) but 2 hours later they're both still out there chomping away ;)

I also picked up some acidophilus capsules at the chemist for Madeline and will sprinkle them on her food.

Last night I found some Curash (zinc oxide) powder and rubbed it onto Maddie's skin. It's supposed to be good for soothing irritations and absorbing excess perspiration. Cresties do sweat so I thought maybe some of her skin problems could be related to that. Her skin does look better today, not as inflamed and oily... so fingers crossed that it continues to help.

[Staranais]

Does anyone know if the blend of ingredients mentioned above would actually remove plaque?

Not sure, but I have read somewhere that longterm oral use of Neem oil can damage the liver. Not sure if that's true or not, but I'd tread carefully, were I you. Natural doesn't always mean safe!

If you don't get results for Sarge with the bones, I'd recommend you consider getting his teeth professionally cleaned by a good vet, and then try to keep them clean by brushing/feeding bones/chew toys.

I know it's not nice (for your dog or your wallet!) to put a dog under anaesthesia or sedation unnecessarily, but I think it can sometimes be worth it in order to give bad teeth a really thorough good clean and start your dental maintenance with a "blank slate". It's easier to keep clean teeth clean with bones, chews etc than to get tartar off after it's already accumulated.

JMO.

[yellowgirl]

Not sure, but I have read somewhere that longterm oral use of Neem oil can damage the liver. Not sure if that's true or not, but I'd tread carefully, were I you. Natural doesn't always mean safe!

Agreed!

If you don't get results for Sarge with the bones, I'd recommend you consider getting his teeth professionally cleaned by a good vet, and then try to keep them clean by brushing/feeding bones/chew toys.

I know it's not nice (for your dog or your wallet!) to put a dog under anaesthesia or sedation unnecessarily, but I think it can sometimes be worth it in order to give bad teeth a really thorough good clean and start your dental maintenance with a "blank slate". It's easier to keep clean teeth clean with bones, chews etc than to get tartar off after it's already accumulated.

Yes, I'd like to get the cleaning done sooner rather than later... just following vet's advice not to put him back under anaesthetic too soon.

The bones haven't been quite the hit that I'd hoped for ... see last night's debarkle - http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=168542 :D

[Staranais]

Yes, I'd like to get the cleaning done sooner rather than later... just following vet's advice not to put him back under anaesthetic too soon.

The bones haven't been quite the hit that I'd hoped for ...

Oh I'm sorry, I missed that your vet recommended against anaesthesia for a while. :D

I wonder if they could clean teeth under a sedative, and if that would be safer for him?