Opinions Fpr A Rescue Dog

[Rusky]

Hi I am turning this over and over in my mind and really would welcome some opinions.

ok a beautiful dog went to the vet for the green dream, the dog is 18 months old. The dog was very friendly and happy but a lot scared when led to the kennel to await his fate. The dog has visited the vet regularly and always been a super friendly happy dog to everyone, dog was recently desexed.

Ok so said dog kept getting out, broke a few things, ripped a fly screen, destroyed this and that...So a family member of mine who works at the vet said can the dog go to rescue? Dog was surrendered to rescue and was taken home for temporary care till a foster carer could be found.

Along I come to do the transfer of this happy go lucky dog, full of fun and energy but very smart and dying to lern some nice manners and some tricks. We taught the dog to chase a ball in no time and to bring it back, to sit to come etc. The dog honestly knew nothing. Dog embraced all this and super long walks with gusto and was very happy to meet anyone as though they were a new best friend. Male, female, dogs, cats, kids all ok,

So I took the dog to a kennel where a pick up by a foster carer was arranged. I wasn't really happy about the kennel bit but it was just for an hour or so.

Upshot is. I took into the pen, all was well full of cuddles and kisses. I left the kennel, the owner a chap went in with a bed, pointed at the dog saying go to your bed and the dog growled...thats it...no bite, no rush just growled.

I feel that the whole situation was out of character for the dog. The mans body language was not the best but he breeds dogs, has boarding and seemed a reasonable chap for the short time I met him.

I really don't know what to do...the dog was brought back to us and has since met heaps of men with no problem. Is this an isolated incident? Is this a time bomb if the situation were repeated. Did the dog just not like the man, did the dog think a belting was coming with a raised hand. Was the dog just scared with so many changes in a couple of days. Should we attempt to repeat the process as if the dog is adopted it will some time have to go to kennel. I can do this with kind gentle kennel owners I know who will leave to settle reward and release to a run then I can take home and repeat at a later date for longer.

Apparently when at the vet the dog slid on the belly to the vet kennel but showed no animosity and walked in ok.

I have spoken to the owners who told me there has never been any growling from this dog...but hey...those of you in rescue know you never believe anything you are told.

Appreciate any opinions and if you don't have any I will have another couple of sleepless nights worrying and trying to work it out :cool:

[Guest Ams]

Perhaps you could place this post in the rescue forum. I know you'll be swamped with advice.

[Nekhbet]

without seeing the body language the dog was probably feeling confronted and scared being pushed from pillar to post

growling isnt all its made up to be - what breed is it? My rottie growls most of the time, none of it to do with being 'aggressive' or 'dangerous'

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

just curious but was the original owner who wanted the dog pts notified that the dog was going to be rescued, not pts?

[Rusky]

just curious but was the original owner who wanted the dog pts notified that the dog was going to be rescued, not pts?

did you read the post ?

[Rusky]

without seeing the body language the dog was probably feeling confronted and scared being pushed from pillar to post

growling isnt all its made up to be - what breed is it? My rottie growls most of the time, none of it to do with being 'aggressive' or 'dangerous'

that really is what I am feeling, obviously I will work with the dog and supervise his settling into a home if needed by then. I can't see an aggressive bone in his body, that's why I am stumped. He appeared to be a super confident dog( but no manners, no training in his life) All dogs will exhibit some form of stress when confronted with a situation they don't understand. I am really confused.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Apparently when at the vet the dog slid on the belly to the vet kennel but showed no animosity and walked in ok.

I wouldn't describe this dog as confident if he did show this behaviour as well as growling at the kennel manager in a strange situation. You need to probably have someone assess this dog as he could be fear aggressive in some circumstances.

[Rusky]

Apparently when at the vet the dog slid on the belly to the vet kennel but showed no animosity and walked in ok.

I wouldn't describe this dog as confident if he did show this behaviour as well as growling at the kennel manager in a strange situation. You need to probably have someone assess this dog as he could be fear aggressive in some circumstances.

yes but how to emulate ? dog has shown no fear in any other situation. I have organised to take this dog to some kennels, take into the pen, reward and then take him out again and home with a play in between. The thing is I have no way of knowing what may have gone on in a kennel situation previously. Apparently the last time at the vet for desex there were no problems, it wasn't that long ago, dog was put in kennel then with no problem. This time came for green dream, could the dog have picked up the angst at home, was the dog put in an enclosed place and yelled at ( for breaking the fly screen mesh)

Actually, we have been teaching retrieve and what a hoot in no time at all the game is on, retrieving everything, offering behaviour all over the place. It is a smart dog. Worked out very quickly that a retrieve meant a cuddle and reward so bringing everything ( not rewarded for that) very exciting to see a smart dog thinking and also very quickly working out what was to be done to get the reward. Met more men today..not a problem, must be the kennel.

Thanks anyway

[Are You Serious Jo]

Talk to the good trainers on here, but it might be the confined spaces are the issue and might be the best things to test. I don't want to recommend you do something if you aren't experienced enough, so ask specifically what you should do now. The dog might be fine when he feels he has an out, but fearful when he perceives he is trapped.

[peibe]

I honestly cannot see a problem with a dog growling, why is it such a big deal?

The dog growled, a growl from a dog is a warning, dog warned it was afraid, scared, or whatever

To me a dog that growls is a ok dog, they warn when they are afraid

We yell when we are afraid what is the difference

Get a trainer, behaviourist to do a Temperament Test

Fear aggression is not something to be played with lightly

But a dog being put in a cage when they are not used to it (and the changes the dog has been through recently) and then confronted by a person that scares them and they growl does not make them a bad dog, just a frightened one

[Are You Serious Jo]

I honestly cannot see a problem with a dog growling, why is it such a big deal?

The dog growled, a growl from a dog is a warning, dog warned it was afraid, scared, or whatever

To me a dog that growls is a ok dog, they warn when they are afraid

We yell when we are afraid what is the difference

It is a problem if a dog who growls under pressure or fear goes to the average home that has no idea how to deal with this behaviour. What may be nothing to someone who is educated in dog behaviour and knows how to handle it becomes a time bomb in inexperienced hands. Some dogs carry out their threat when pushed, and you don't want the kid of some adopter finding this out the hard way.

[peibe]

I honestly cannot see a problem with a dog growling, why is it such a big deal?

The dog growled, a growl from a dog is a warning, dog warned it was afraid, scared, or whatever

To me a dog that growls is a ok dog, they warn when they are afraid

We yell when we are afraid what is the difference

It is a problem if a dog who growls under pressure or fear goes to the average home that has no idea how to deal with this behaviour. What may be nothing to someone who is educated in dog behaviour and knows how to handle it becomes a time bomb in inexperienced hands. Some dogs carry out their threat when pushed, and you don't want the kid of some adopter finding this out the hard way.

I did not say place him in a home

I said contact a dog trainer or behaviourist to find out why, have him looked at

Nothing wrong with a dog that growls, it is a warning, and ofcourse place him in an experienced home :p

I sometimes think you just skim posts and not read everything

[Are You Serious Jo]

I honestly cannot see a problem with a dog growling, why is it such a big deal?

The dog growled, a growl from a dog is a warning, dog warned it was afraid, scared, or whatever

To me a dog that growls is a ok dog, they warn when they are afraid

We yell when we are afraid what is the difference

Get a trainer, behaviourist to do a Temperament Test

Fear aggression is not something to be played with lightly

But a dog being put in a cage when they are not used to it (and the changes the dog has been through recently) and then confronted by a person that scares them and they growl does not make them a bad dog, just a frightened one

I'd already suggested to see a trainer. I was responding to your post where you said you couldn't see growling as a problem. I don't agree that a growling dog is not a problem, and outlined why. The bits I have bolded prompted my reply as they seem to be at odds with each other. You seem to have said two different things.

[peibe]

Because a dog growling is not fear aggression

A dog will growl if someone goes to their food, steps on them, etc

does not make them a bad dog

We try to humanise dogs too much and need to remember they are dogs

They will growl when scared

Bark when angry or happy

Not all growling is fear based

[Are You Serious Jo]

Because a dog growling is not fear aggression

A dog will growl if someone goes to their food, steps on them, etc

does not make them a bad dog

We try to humanise dogs too much and need to remember they are dogs

They will growl when scared

Bark when angry or happy

Not all growling is fear based

Fear aggressive dogs do growl. I don't know if this dog is fear aggressive, which is why I was careful to use the word "might" frequently. My dogs don't growl if I go near their food, if they did I would not accept this as normal and would rectify it. I am the last person to humanise an animal, but I will not accept aggression in my dogs towards humans and I would be concerned enough with this dog to have a professional trainer assess it. I certainly would not consider growling at humans ok by any stretch of the imagination.

Because a dog growling is not fear aggression

Not all growling is fear based

Again, I am unsure what you really mean as the above two statements are contradictory. Did you mean that fear aggression was not expressed by growling, as you said in the first bit?

[Zug Zug]

Actually, we have been teaching retrieve and what a hoot in no time at all the game is on, retrieving everything, offering behaviour all over the place. It is a smart dog. Worked out very quickly that a retrieve meant a cuddle and reward so bringing everything ( not rewarded for that) very exciting to see a smart dog thinking and also very quickly working out what was to be done to get the reward. Met more men today..not a problem

Reading what you've written here it sounds like you're feeling quite attached to this dog already.

Just remember that a smart, playful, willing dog can also be a fearful/possessive/aggressive dog if the right buttons are pushed. These positive behaviours do not mean the aggression is not a serious problem.

I actually think a dog growling at a person is a serious issue. I also know that dogs with aggression issues are not necessarily bad dogs (I have one). But I also know that taking on a dog with aggression issues means 'day in day out' vigilance for the new owner - for the rest of that dog's life.

In a rescue situation, many people will be unable to handle that responsibility. It can be very challenging.

The advice from others to have the dog assessed carefully is really sound advice. Gives you a more objective basis for a decision about what to do about this dog. Maybe you're a little close to the situation to step back and have a clear look (I would be) - hence the confusion you've written about here (perfectly understandable).

And I agree with you that the fact that the previous owners said no previous growling means little. Sounds like they weren't dog-wise people and they would be dealing with guilt etc. too so I think your instincts to treat that information as suspect are spot on.

[Rusky]

Reading what you've written here it sounds like you're feeling quite attached to this dog already

I treat all dogs who pass through my hands the same as if they were my own, to do anything less would not be in my nature. The very best thing in the world is when a dog is rehomed with a fantastic family and a fantastic bright future. I try to learn as much about the personality of any dog I am involved with. I need to know their capabilities for learning, what they already know and what type of home they would best be suited to. You can learn a lot by playing with a dog and I love to play with them and to challenge their brains.

I get attached to them all

[yellowgirl]

Is it possible to go back to the kennel where the dog had the negative reaction and replay the situation that he reacted to ... with the same man? Someone with behaviour expertise may be able to pin point the problem if they see it for themselves.

He sounds like a lovely and smart dog by the way

[Rusky]

thanks everyone for your input and suggestions, thanks for the pm.s and cheers to nechbet who has been my sounding board and helped me get things in perspective with some great advice.

[Nekhbet]

I actually think a dog growling at a person is a serious issue. I also know that dogs with aggression issues are not necessarily bad dogs (I have one). But I also know that taking on a dog with aggression issues means 'day in day out' vigilance for the new owner - for the rest of that dog's life.

growling does not mean aggression - its part of the vocabular repetoire of a dog in order to communicate with a human or another canine. The dog you worry about is the one that doesnt say anything at all and just *bang*.

Remember too some breeds communicate differently through growls - there is a play growl which my dogs do with me, there is the rotties growl when he wants his food or attention, there is the malinois growl that someone is on the property and she's heard them at night.

Dogs with aggressive reactions are not bad dogs - the truely 'bad' dog is the one that can never be controlled and needs the vet, about .00001% of the dog population is unfixable to some degree. You also have to be careful how 'vigilant' you are as well about something that may be trivial - I have seen owners treat their dogs like they could suddenly morph into the Devil just because they had a growl or showed some teeth once. Have a good investigation and you find the poor dog was just caught in that moment and panicked or reacted from extreme pain/stress etc.

So many different possibilities its not fair to tar a dog with the 'untrustworthy' brush because he behaved like a dog.