Ocd Of The Elbow

[aspenleaf]

Good evening everybody,

Our 6 month old Boxer x Labrador (BYB) has been diagnosed with OCD of the Elbow.

Does anybody have any advice or suggestions? He has had a four week course of Cartrophen and our vet is not happy with his progress. He believes he is in need of surgery.

I have been researching OCD (Osteochondrosis) on the internet and it's all very negative.

I am trying fish oil tablets. Any other suggestions. Surgery is not an option for us right now.

Has anybody had experience with this condition?

Thank you.

[office bitch]

My six year old border collie has OCD of the elbow. Cartrophen was not successful. His OCD is quite severe apparently but was not diagnosed until he was x-rayed late last year. Up until then he competed in master level agility and jumping. He is given 4 fish oil capsules a day as well as glucosamine and MSM. He is also kept well excercised but never jumped now. On this regime he appears pain-free and only rarely has a slight limp.

[BigDaz]

My girl had OCD, specifically Fragmented Coronoid Process, for which there really was no option other than surgery.

I dont know enough about your particular problem but if you leave it too long you will be risking ongoing arthritis, and could be risking problems such as HD related to the dog making allowance for the elbow problem, so you should consider the surgery option.

I actually had my girls hip x-rayed today to find out if her previous OCD problem caused any hip problems, luckily she was all clear.

[puggy_puggy]

Make sure your puppy is as skinny as possible. Any extra weight is not going to help. What do you currently feed and how much?

Have you been advised to crate rest your pup?

I would seek a specalists advice before doing any surgery.

Edited May 28, 2009 by puggy_puggy

[blacklabrador]

My girl had OCD, specifically Fragmented Coronoid Process, for which there really was no option other than surgery.

That actually means that she had Elbow Dysplasia I believe. OCD is one of the elements of Elbow Dysplasia and means that the cartilage flap is loose in the joint.

I had a boy with ED. He had arthroscopic surgery from which he recovered very quickly but was on crate rest for a month. He had the fractured coronoid processes removed and the joints cleaned out and there was some improvement. He will never move normally and will be in some pain for the rest of his life.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Pointeeblab

[BigDaz]

My girl had OCD, specifically Fragmented Coronoid Process, for which there really was no option other than surgery.

That actually means that she had Elbow Dysplasia I believe. OCD is one of the elements of Elbow Dysplasia and means that the cartilage flap is loose in the joint.

I had a boy with ED. He had arthroscopic surgery from which he recovered very quickly but was on crate rest for a month. He had the fractured coronoid processes removed and the joints cleaned out and there was some improvement. He will never move normally and will be in some pain for the rest of his life.

OK, so a differnet problem, ignore what I said then.

[aspenleaf]

Thank you everybody for your replies. We will keep up the fish oil as it worked on our last Boxer x. He eats raw meat, rice, vegetables and a dry puppy kibble.

He is due for another cartrophen injection in a month's time.

He appears very happy and is hardly limping at all however the Vet said that with the touch test, he is yelping, this is why he wasn't happy with the conservative treatment.

He is crate trained but we have given the crate back to the people we borrowed it off and he now sleeps in 'his office' as we call it. It's a little bathroom off our deck. It's lovely and cosy but would be hard to 'rest' him. He's so overly hyperactive as the lovely Boxers are.

[dancinbcs]

The OCD cases I have known of in puppies required complete crate rest, only being toileted on lead for a month. Occasionally this allows the flap to heal back on as the dog grows. In most cases this is not completely successful so then surgery is the only cure as the flap needs to be removed. After surgery they still need to be crated for a further 4 to 6 weeks to allow healing. I have seen dogs fully recover from surgery with this regime but the either way complete crate rest is vital. The more active the dog is by nature the smaller the crate needs to be in order to stop them jumping around at all. A placid dog may be OK shut in a small room but the active ones need to be in a crate that is just high enough to stand comfortably.

Can I ask why surgery is not an option at the moment? If it is due to cost ring around different vets as surgical costs can vary enormously. Surgery for OCD is not really very complicated and should not be hugely expensive. Also ask if you can speak to someone that owns a dog they have successfully operated on for the same problem before going ahead.

OCD in puppies needs to be cured while the dog is still growing in order for it to heal properly so leaving it will only make it worse.

[aspenleaf]

Surgery is not an option as we can't afford it.

Also this crate rest would be difficult for me as a mother with three young children and a husband who travels overseas for work alot. My workload is hectic, so surgery and post surgery is financially and physically out of my reach. It's so difficult to keep him calm as the three children are constantly playing with him and he's jumping around alot.

I will stick with conservative treatment ie, fish oil and cartrophen and less of an exercise regime. At the moment, I'm walking him at 35 minute blocks, once or twice per day.

Thanks everyone for your input.

[Lab lady]

two lots of 35min walks seems a bit too much for a puppy with ocd, rest will do wonders.

[stormie]

Berry - sorry to hear this about your pup.

One suspected causes of OCD in large breed dogs involve diet, eg a diet which can cause them to grow too fast, or carry too much weight. Can I ask what you have fed your boy on from a pup? Did he grow lean or could he have been a little overweight?

If you can't go through with surgery, you're probably going to need to confine him to a crate for anything up to 10 weeks. I believe some do make a recovery if rested properly and supported nutrionally.

[puggy_puggy]

I would be seriously considering purchasing a crate and confining him in there for at least a few weeks. Walking him and having your kids make him jump around is going to do no good at all and is probably making things worse. The cartlage flap needs to heal and there is no way that it is going to do so if the dog is running around on it.

Confining a dog to a crate for a month is not as difficult as having to put your dog down because it has ruined it's joints. As a 6 month old he should be toilet trained so you would only be having to take him outside a few times a day to toilet and providing him with some chew toys.

I would be also be making sure the meat youl feed also contains bones. Meat fed without bones can cause alot of problems in puppies bone growth. I would change the raw meat to either lamb bones, chicken necks or minced chicken carcusses. Get rid of the rice. Not needed. Make sure you do not overfeed at all. It doesn't matter if he looks skinny.

[persephone]

Hi- I would also suggest walking a 6 month old with a joint problem for 35 min 2 x a day is probably too much WAY too much.

try doing several short sessions of obedience/trick training. This will give his BRAIN a lot of exercise........... and may well tire him more than a 35 min. walk

(and be better for his elbows.)

[BigDaz]

Surgery is not an option as we can't afford it.

Also this crate rest would be difficult for me as a mother with three young children and a husband who travels overseas for work alot. My workload is hectic, so surgery and post surgery is financially and physically out of my reach. It's so difficult to keep him calm as the three children are constantly playing with him and he's jumping around alot.

I will stick with conservative treatment ie, fish oil and cartrophen and less of an exercise regime. At the moment, I'm walking him at 35 minute blocks, once or twice per day.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Just dont make him suffer for too long, if you cant give him the treatment he needs and he is not improving, look at other options.

[dancinbcs]

Surgery is not an option as we can't afford it.

Also this crate rest would be difficult for me as a mother with three young children and a husband who travels overseas for work alot. My workload is hectic, so surgery and post surgery is financially and physically out of my reach. It's so difficult to keep him calm as the three children are constantly playing with him and he's jumping around alot.

I will stick with conservative treatment ie, fish oil and cartrophen and less of an exercise regime. At the moment, I'm walking him at 35 minute blocks, once or twice per day.

Thanks everyone for your input.

35 min walks are way, way too much. He should only be allowed out to toilet, NOT to exercise. OCD happens when a flap of cartledge comes loose from the end of a bone in a joint. Healing this is pretty much like healing a broken bone so complete rest is the only way that it can heal. Playing with the kids is definitely going to do him major harm as well. What would you do with him if he had a broken leg? If you own a dog you need to be prepared for these sorts of things to happen both financially and as far as managing their recovery goes. Keeping a hyper dog still long enough for it to heal an injury is a nightmare but sometimes it just has to be done. Sadly if your situation does not allow you to treat him properly he will most likely get worse and remain in pain. You may have to make the hard decision and have him pts if you cannot give him what he needs.

[InspectorRex]

Has he been examined by an Orthopaedic Vet to see if there are other options than the surgery you cannot afford?

I agree with all the others- No 35min walks and total crate rest and no jumping around with the children

I am so glad I have PetPlan Health Insurance as if this situation happened here my furkids could get the best of Vet treatment.

[aspenleaf]

Thank you to everyone who have provided me with some practical and helpful information.

Inspector Rex, what are you trying to convey here regarding your PetPlan comment? Do you think that your comment about having this insurance is a helpful one to me.

I remember when I left the hospital after having my third child one of the nurses said to me 'just get plenty of rest so your milk supply doesn't get affected'. You know, it's just unrealistic. Because I have gone through it I know that when my friends give birth two, three, four times, I would never make a comment like 'get plenty of rest' because it just isn't going to happen.

So, when we have three young children and a dog that is hyperactive, crate rest for these periods of time is just not going to happen, especially no jumping. I have limited finances hence surgery not being an option. My dog would go absolutely nuts being crated for that long.

Thank you once again to everyone who has helped me for my situation, not theirs.

I will never visit here again.

[persephone]

Berry- sorry you aren't happy with advice offered.

crate rest for these periods of time is just not going to happen, especially no jumping. I have limited finances hence surgery not being an option.

Then, if the diagnosis was correct, there is the possibility that the condition will get worse, and your pup will suffer.

I totally understand about the limited finances... but a lot of vets have a payment plan of some sort.

I too wish I had taken out pet insurance for my boy some years back- had to pay heaps when he needed bowel surgery.

I hope all goes well with your pup.

[Kirty]

I am sorry you are going through this, but why is crating not an option? I would have thought it was the easiest option - stick the dog in a crate, and leave him there? He can't hurt himself, he can't interact with the kids, etc.

[dancinbcs]

Good evening everybody,

Our 6 month old Boxer x Labrador (BYB) has been diagnosed with OCD of the Elbow.

Does anybody have any advice or suggestions? He has had a four week course of Cartrophen and our vet is not happy with his progress. He believes he is in need of surgery.

I have been researching OCD (Osteochondrosis) on the internet and it's all very negative.

I am trying fish oil tablets. Any other suggestions. Surgery is not an option for us right now.

Has anybody had experience with this condition?

Thank you.

Sorry Berry if you feel that you have not been fairly treated on this forum. Quoting from your original post above you did ask for advice or suggestions and if anybody had any experience with OCD. Sadly there are many owners who have come across OCD in various breeds and unfortunately there are only two possible ways for a dog to recover from it. Complete rest sometimes works otherwise surgery followed by complete rest is the usual course of action. I realise that you are trying desperately to find another solution that you can manage in your situation but unfortunately there just isn't one. No matter how much we would all like to be able to suggest something else we can't because the bottom line with a condition like OCD is have it treated right or pts to avoid further suffering. Making this sort of call is the worst part of owning a dog.

You also commented that your internet search was all negative and that is because this is a very serious condition that there is no easy way to fix. It is caused by a dog becoming too heavy for it's growing bones and joints to cope with, usually coupled with some sort of trauma to the joints from being too active or sustaining an injury. Genetics, diet, environment and sheer bad luck all play a part in whether a dog will develop OCD or not so no one is blaming you because this happened to your dog. If your dog has a Lab type body with a bouncing Boxer temperament the odds were against him from the start. Reputable breeders of large breeds ensure that puppy buyers understand the need to restrict certain activities until the dog is past the danger age for conditions like OCD to occur. If buyers cannot provide a suitable environment they are not sold a puppy. As your dog came from BYB you would not have had this pointed out before you bought what has turned out to be a totally unsuitable dog for your situation. Again you cannot be blamed for this but the regulars on here get frustrated hearing yet another sad tale about a dog from a BYB were the owners and the dog all end up suffering because of an unethical so called "breeder".

These forums are frequented by really dedicated dog lovers who would do anything in their power to treat one of their dogs who was diagnosed with any ailment. Obviously some would be able to spend far more than others on treatment and what is too much financially is different for everyone depending on their individual situation. For most a vet bill up to $1000 is not considered excessive and should be allowed for when you acquire a dog. Others spend tens of thousands if they can afford it but for some of us this would never be an option. Some like Inspectorex pay out for insurance so that they are never put in a position of not being able to afford treatment. Her comment was not meant to make you feel bad, it was just a comment.

The comments about crating are all valid as most of us have had to do it at some time for some ailment but it is never easy with really active breeds. Possible, yes - Easy , definitely not and it is a big committment to take on.

I am sure we all wish we could wave a magic wand and fix the situation for you and your dog, rather than just giving you the bad news that you did not want to hear but we have all owned enough dogs to know when reality must be faced.