Elimination Diet & Allergies

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Ruby (our staffy cross) has severe allergies and we suspect both contact/airborne and food. For the past three weeks, we've only given her fish and sweet potato - no other foods at all. No treats, no yoghurt, nothing. Her itching has subsided a little but she's by no means "better".

We started the elim diet well over 6 wks ago but my OH fed her some chicken while I was away, so we had to start again. Her reaction on the chicken wasn't positive: vomiting, hives, chronic itch. So chicken is a strong possible culprit but I'm sure there are others. This rules out most processed foods (for boarding kennel stays) as most have chicken content.

In three weeks, we'll see the vet again for advice as to which food to introduce next. Plus Ruby will have another skin scrape (for mange).

She's doing quite OK now on the fish/sweet potato but it's not cheap. We feed the dogs on raw usually, so Ruby gets a combination of cooked white fish fillets and raw fish heads. Sweet potato is boiled then mashed and she loves it! This is costing around $25 per week (fish fillets fresh $13 per kg, frozen $14 per kg, fish heads $5 per kg, sweet potato about $1 each), so it's not cheap by any means.

Does anyone have a dog with severe food-related allergies? If so, what do you feed? How successful has it been for your dog? What advice do you have for us?

Thanks!

[glendabenda]

I do know that some dogs are allergic to fish. Have you tried camel? I've heard this was good.

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Jump ahead is my advice and ask for a referral to a dermatologist - I knew what I Know now I would have done this first rather than trying to solve the problems on my own.

Here is my thread re Benson's allergies and then Zayda_Asher has another link in there http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=166777

[Loraine]

I have had my boy on an elimination diet. I was advised by the vet that he needed to be on it for six weeks to determine if his allergy was food related. He had to have a food that I did not think he had ever had before. I did discover that he is allergic to oats which are in many kibbles, snack foods .

Turned out it was his thyroid anyways

I have now gone back to normal BARF type feeding of the boy and now he is on Oroxine he is great.

Point I started to make was to keep the dog on one type of food (meat and/or fish and a veggie) for a miimum of 6 weeks.

[Sandra777]

Ouch, don't fancy that as a long term solution! There is a fish & sweet potato commercial food - I don't know who makes it sorry.

I raw feed so it pains me to make the suggestion let alone know more than this

Maybe it's not available at your end of the world, maybe not suitable and maybe not cheaper but it might be worth a look? An internet friend in the USA has a dog with a major allergy issue, she is also a vegetarian so won't even try raw feeding but uses this dry food and it works fine.

A really novel protein like the camel suggested might quicken the process but definitely one for the vet/dermatologist.

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Oh yeah forgot about testing the T4 and TSH levels first, then the derm! (that will help either eliminate thyroid or prove you need further testing done as Loraine can tell you).

Edited May 28, 2009 by First Time Puppy Owner

[Stitch]

When I was speaking to the people at Eukanuba the other week they said that chicken was usually what dogs were allergic to, if they were allergic.

I feed BARF Rabbit to my girls and they are doing well.

[Loraine]

Oh yeah forgot about testing the T4 and TSH levels first, then the derm! (that will help either eliminate thyroid or prove you need further testing done as Loraine can tell you).

Yes my boy had his thyroid tested a year before and one level was low and the other was normal so it was ignored, then the second vet in the practice checked my boy's heart rate. His heart rate was very low so thyroid problems were confirmed. It is worth a go, as elimination diets are hard to stick to and can be expensive and difficult to find the meats.

[Ptolomy]

Beef is the most common food that a dog is allergic to followed by chicken and lamb!

Yes I have done the elimination diet - took 6 months . Started on goat and sweet potato and by the end of it I found that she was allergic to beef, lamb, wheat, corn and milk, which wipes out a truck load of commerical foods.

My dog can eat Herring and Sweet Potato dry food made by Calafornia Natural.

It is a long slow process and interestingly now, 3 years down the track, if I drop some forbidden food on the floor and she gobbles it up she no long breaks out with all her bits turning a neon red colour.

Good luck!

PS - you can get sweet potato a lot cheaper than $5 a kg and I always feed it raw.

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

PS - you can get sweet potato a lot cheaper than $5 a kg and I always feed it raw.

Not in Darwin...I have found it on special for between $2.00 and $2.50 for 4 small potatoes. I would feed it raw but Ruby prefers it cooked unless it's mixed with other raw veg (which she can't have ATM).

Everything here is so much more expensive than Down South. It's because of FREIGHT because we're so far away from civilisation! You know they truck most of our produce up from Adelaide, so that accounts for doubled or tripled prices...of course! :D

Chicken is definitely one of the culprits in Ruby's case. So that rules out a lot of foods and treats and makes boarding her that much more difficult. We also don't have access to the more exotic processed foods as nobody stocks them in Darwin. It's hard enough to find BARF patties although they were recently introduced by Pet Barn. Yay.

Finding alternate protein sources here is very hard - I've never seen rabbit or roo here of a "pet food quality" but have asked at butchers...once they finish laughing, they tell me that it's too expensive for pet food and they'd sell me some if I'm willing to pay $25 for a whole rabbit or the going rate per kg for roo steaks...Camel would produce a similar result I think.

Thanks for your replies so far, gives me more info to work with...I don't think we have a veterinary dermatologist here though. :D

[Ptolomy]

PS - you can get sweet potato a lot cheaper than $5 a kg and I always feed it raw.

Not in Darwin...I have found it on special for between $2.00 and $2.50 for 4 small potatoes. I would feed it raw but Ruby prefers it cooked unless it's mixed with other raw veg (which she can't have ATM).

Everything here is so much more expensive than Down South. It's because of FREIGHT because we're so far away from civilisation! You know they truck most of our produce up from Adelaide, so that accounts for doubled or tripled prices...of course! :D

Chicken is definitely one of the culprits in Ruby's case. So that rules out a lot of foods and treats and makes boarding her that much more difficult. We also don't have access to the more exotic processed foods as nobody stocks them in Darwin. It's hard enough to find BARF patties although they were recently introduced by Pet Barn. Yay.

Finding alternate protein sources here is very hard - I've never seen rabbit or roo here of a "pet food quality" but have asked at butchers...once they finish laughing, they tell me that it's too expensive for pet food and they'd sell me some if I'm willing to pay $25 for a whole rabbit or the going rate per kg for roo steaks...Camel would produce a similar result I think.

Thanks for your replies so far, gives me more info to work with...I don't think we have a veterinary dermatologist here though. :D

have you tried her on Roo?

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Hard to get decent quality (pet grade) roo here unless you buy the frozen blocks - $15 per kg that way.

She did okay on roo tail portions years ago, but then she's always been itchy so hard to know what has caused it over the years. She's been on a raw diet for most of the time we've had her and the food response really only became noticeable in the past three months. We always assumed it was contact allergies before she started puking and having a massive hive outbreak.

We'll see what happens in three weeks...hopefully we can try a new protein source which she doesn't react on.

[laeral]

To do an elimination diet, do you HAVE to feed them on something they have never had before? I have contemplated trying this with my girl, but she eats lamb, chicken, roo and beef fairly regularly. I'm not sure what type of meat that leaves. I know I cant get rabbit or camel here.

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Perhaps try washing her every four days too Lillysmum!

[Kayne's Mum]

Ruby (our staffy cross) has severe allergies and we suspect both contact/airborne and food. For the past three weeks, we've only given her fish and sweet potato - no other foods at all. No treats, no yoghurt, nothing. Her itching has subsided a little but she's by no means "better".

We started the elim diet well over 6 wks ago but my OH fed her some chicken while I was away, so we had to start again. Her reaction on the chicken wasn't positive: vomiting, hives, chronic itch. So chicken is a strong possible culprit but I'm sure there are others. This rules out most processed foods (for boarding kennel stays) as most have chicken content.

chicken are full of hormones and other crap

In three weeks, we'll see the vet again for advice as to which food to introduce next. Plus Ruby will have another skin scrape (for mange).

She's doing quite OK now on the fish/sweet potato but it's not cheap.

We feed the dogs on raw usually, so Ruby gets a combination of cooked white fish fillets and raw fish heads. Sweet potato is boiled then mashed and she loves it! This is costing around $25 per week (fish fillets fresh $13 per kg, frozen $14 per kg, fish heads $5 per kg, sweet potato about $1 each), so it's not cheap by any means.

Does anyone have a dog with severe food-related allergies? If so, what do you feed? How successful has it been for your dog? What advice do you have for us?

Thanks!

My boy is the allergy king. LOL

Cannot eat meat. Nor fish

I had him on Royal Canin Hypoalergenic as it is fine to feed for long term whereas other elimination type foods shouldn't be fed long term.

but READ the packets before feeding anything to your dog. you'd be amazed at the stuff they put in there.

I have been told that dogs shouldn't eat potato (not sure if sweet potato is any different) because it is as harmful as onions, etc.

BTW, nothing is cheap when dogs have allergies. I was buying organic chickens at one time @ nearly $25.00.

IMO, those elimination diets are not always that effective.

Say you trial beef.. all is good

then you trial carrots... no reation.

but then you put the 2 together and the dog reacts.

And it CAN happen because foods on their own are fine but a combination of the 2 changes the constituents and affects the dog.

So it all gets quite confusing.

I found that doing my own research was helpful.

And were you told that before you start the trials, the dogs has to be feeling better??

Kayne was on doses of antibacs, meds for the colitis, meds for the tummy cramping (he'd cry and moan due to the pain),

Look into EPI. though I don't think it will be case for your staf

Allergies will vary from one animal to the next and what was great for one dog could kill another sp be very careful about other peoples advice.

Go to the vet without your dog. if he's a good vet, he should be prepared to help you and the visit won't cost you.

[~Anne~]

I think many people misunderstand what an elimination diet is.

The idea is to create a 'clean slate' with which to work. From my limited knowledge of the science behind it, apparently dogs become allergic to foods fed within the first 1-3 years of life. The idea then is to find a protein source the dog has never had a chance to develop a reaction to. ie one that they have never eaten.

You then have to add a carb source to ensure the dog still can function with some energy.

If the dog ceases to have a reaction after having nothing but the novel protein and a carb source, then you may assume that the dog is allergic to a food type it had been eating. While the dog is a clean slate, without itching, you can trial different food types to see which it reacts too. With each reaction, you immediately cease feeding that food and go back to the novel protein and carb until the itching stops again (usually only within a few days this time round I am advised) and trial the next item.

This is done until you can list what foods the dog can eat. Then you go back to creating a long lasting healthy diet that meets all of your dogs needs with the things they can eat.

If nothing causes a reaction when re-introduced then you can assume that the diet was not the culprit and perhaps the itching stopped for another reason. If the itching doesn't stop on the novel protein, then you can assume also that the itch is not neccessarily diet related.

I am currently up to the re-introduction stage with a rescue.

I am only new to this myself and so I may have some things worng, but this is my understanding of an 'elimination' diet.

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

PRS, you got the gist of the elimination diet exactly right!

We trial a novel protein and carb source (one of each) for the initial six-week phase. No response = no problem with the novel foods. Response = either reaction to the foods OR to something else, OR a combination of both. In Ruby's case, she's definitely got contact allergies as her paws are still slightly inflamed and she's still scratching her body. But remembering that she's also suffering with mange again, and that we're surrounded by weeds which seem to set her off as well, and I think the fish and sweet potato is not causing a real allergic response.

Sweet potato (or yam) is safe for dogs. It's one of the best carb sources (raw or cooked) and many dogs love it.

We are bathing her weekly with Malaseb; we used to use Aloveen which is great for soothing the skin, but I also now use a Fuzzyard Organics shampoo and conditioner which she loves (and it smells pretty good!). ATM while she's on phase 1 of the diet, we're using just Malaseb, no conditioners or any other topical products (including no frontline). No medications at all either as she could react to one of them without us connecting the dots.

Once the initial phase of the elimination diet is complete, we then introduce ONE food at a time (including previously-fed foods). Response = stop feeing, no response = keep going. Once that next food is either ruled safe or out, then introduce the next and so on. It's going to be tedious but I think it's the better way of deciding what's safe for her to eat - and this could take six months or more but the results will be worth it.

Our vet is lovely. It's a pleasure to consult with him because he shares our philosophy when it comes to natural foods (he fully supports feeding a raw diet as long as it's well-researched), he doesn't like to over-medicate and he believes that dogs are TRULY part of the family and not "just a pet".

Will keep everyone posted as I'm sure many other dogs display these symptoms and it can be difficult to know if you're on the right track or not.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

started with the elimination diet because she had lots of yeast infections then i have my dog on Eagle pack Duck and oatmeal and she is doing great on this and she has allergic reactions to lots of things.

[~Anne~]

We are feeding goats meat and sweet potato. Her itching cam e to almost a complete stop although we suspect there is some atopic reactions still. I have started her on a 'low allergen' kibble for sensitive skin as of yesterday and her itching appears to be on the increase already.

I wish you could buy these bags in a trial pack...this one cost $33 and she has had only a handful added to her goats meat. I guess my own Pugs will end up enjoying a good range of foods from her cats offs though. :cool:

Edited May 31, 2009 by PugRescueSydney

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

We are feeding goats meat and sweet potato. Her itching cam e to almost a complete stop although we suspect there is some atopic reactions still. I have started her on a 'low allergen' kibble for sensitive skin as of yesterday and her itching appears to be on the increase already.

I wish you could buy these bags in a trial pack...this one cost $33 and she has had only a handful added to her goats meat. I guess my own Pugs will end up enjoying a good range of foods from her cats offs though.

No good about the kibble - as we'll need the option of kibble when we board Ruby...and yes they should offer a trial sized bag for a neglible amount - say $2.00. Sorry to hear the kibble isn't working already.