Incontinence

[Asalei]

My 2.5yr old beagle bitch (whom was desexed smack bang on 6 months old) has been diagnosed with hormonal (spey) incontinence.

We've had her on Propalin for 4 weeks now giving 0.4ml morning and night and she's still leaking during the early morning hours. We've tried playing around with the dosage time, but nothing seems to be working with it. She's on a raw diet and we've stopped giving red meats and only fed white (chicken, duck and turkey). She has gone 4 nights without weeing, then the last 3 she's wee'd every night.

I've spoken with my vet and there are a few other drug options.

1. Propalin with an implant

2. Incurin

3. Stilbestrol

All have their own pros and cons and I'm not sure where to go from here. Propalin has a 80% success rate in working and it is the drug of choice as it's a new technology drug. Incurin being the next oldest and Stilbestrol being the oldest.

My husband doesn't want her to be on anything, but we need to do something. Not only for her to stop UTI's and burning of her skin long term, but for my sanity so I don't have to be washing the incontinence mats and blankets every day.

Does anyone have any experience, good or bad with Incurin or Stilbestrol? Incurin will most likely be the next step for us, but I'm just interested to find out other people's opinions and own personal experience with the drugs and their dogs.

We've had a horrible few months with my poor girl, being diagnosed with Hip Dysplasia in February and now incontinence... Hopefully this is it! Her sister (same litter) doesn't have any signs of either problems.

Edited May 26, 2009 by ~Erin~

[InspectorRex]

I have heard of some people using Sudafed. PM Charles Kuntz- he is a Specialist Vet and also a DOL Member. he is very helpful.

[Rebanne]

I've been lucky and only had one bitch affected, years ago, but Stilbestrol worked very well. I didn't think you could still get it though. Once it was under control my GSD was on one one tablet a week.

[Rappie]

Different dogs will respond to different drugs.

Propalin works well in most cases, but I have had dogs respond better to Incurin and Stilboestrol. Stilboestrol is an older treatment and certainly has the potential to cause problems but they are very unlikely at the commonly use dose rates of 1mg per dog once or twice a week. The oestrogen-based treatments can cause bone marrow suppression but this is a problem reported in humans and would require a much higher dose than is normally encountered in veterinary medicine - this specific problem was discussed at the WSAVA conference in 2007. Incurin is the mid-point - similar mode of action to Stilboestrol with a better safety profile.

As a note - pseudoephidrine works on the same receptor type as Propalin so it unlikely to have any success over it.

I have heard of a few cases where the Suprelorin implant has been used with some success also.

[MolassesLass]

My brother's dog has been on Stilbestrol for about 2 years now. We know the risks of it but it works. She's down to 1 tablet every two weeks, though they start on more than that and then you taper off to what works for you. My brother still has to monitor her access to outside because if she gets over-full from being inside too long without a break she will still leak.

[rugerfly]

Fly is nine and developed spey incontinence at around 2, stilbestrol works for her. :rolleyes:

[Asalei]

Thanks everyone. We might try the incurin first and see how that works.

How often is the incurin dose?

The Stilboestrol certainly is cheaper! But I want to do what's right for her, not what's cheaper.

Has anyone noticed any personality changes by putting them on the tablets? Are the dogs their normal happy selves? My OH is worried she will change and be a different dog.

Edited May 27, 2009 by ~Erin~

[becks]

I have a bitch on Incurin and she is the same old, same old girl. She is on an alternate day dose.

I have another bitch who takes a herb supplement and this does the trick for her, but not the younger bitch.

I have used Propalin with my old mini, (she's been dead several years now, so I wouldn't call it a new treatment!) Propalin worked great for her, sometimes the treatment had to be increased at the time when she would have been due in season (we did this by giving her Stilboestrol), then after 3 weeks we could go back to normal.

With this problem it seems a bit of trial and error, getting one to work and then seeing if you can ease off on the dosage.

[Loving my Oldies]

I can't help with the medication, because Rover doesn't really have an incontinence problem, but he was starting to wet the bed because he is so old (19+). I put belly bands on him at night and 99% of the time, if he needs to go out at night, he will wake me up (he is too old to get off the bed).

The thing with the belly bands is that I can relax knowing that if he does leak through the night, or not wake up, I won't have extra washing. He doesn't need them through the day.

There is an advertiser on this forum (click on View all Advertisers) who makes the panties for female dogs as well; I bought my b/bands from her, but I also just use strips of soft cloth and a sanitary napkin.

ETA: The advertiser is Love my Fur Babies

Edited May 28, 2009 by _Cynthia_

[The Bear]

I have my 3 yr old on Incurin shes was on half a tablet a day and was doing great until recently. Weve just upped it to 1 and a half for now as shes been having the odd slip up.

After reading these replies and seeing the other brands are given weekly Im wondering if this dose is huge

Our vet did say if things got bad we could mix a few brands as they they seem be become to used to 1 brand but Im not sure about that!

Good luck.

[benny123]

Beanie was on Stilboestrol on and off for about 12 months when she developed incontinence at around 10 months (she's a rescue and was speyed at 8 weeks). She was also on and off antibiotics during that time for recurring UTIs. Poor little girl had ultrasounds and urine extracted from her bladder via syringe etc to try and find the cause. The reason was a mystery but the vet assumed hormone imbalance due to early desexing.

Miraculously it just disappeared after about a year of hormone and anti-b treatment. Since then, in the past 12 months she's wet herself twice - both times she's been sitting guarding a toy (ball etc) from her brother and wouldn't move from the spot in case Spud got the toy while she was gone. Luckily she was on the paving at the back.

When she was suffering from incontinence she would wet the bed every night. So we went to a manchester shop and bought fitted matress protectors for every bed in the house (plastic on one side and towelling on the other). We had three queen size ones for the human beds and then purchased cot and bassinette sized ones for all the dog beds (plus extras to use when washing the others - I've still got a couple of cot sized ones still in the packets I went overboard). We then purchased several metres of polar fleece to cover over the top of those as they're easy to wash and very fast drying. It is a nightmare though.

We didn't find any change to her personality during the treatment with stilboestrol, however, male dogs found her quite attractive including her desexed brother So that's perhaps one thing to look out for with hormone treatment.

EFT

Someone once mentioned cranberry tablets but that may have been for UTIs, not incontenance - can't remember.

Edited May 28, 2009 by benny123

[Vizsla]

Acupunture can also be very effective. Speak with a Vet with experience in this field, including the use and placement of old beads. Have 1st hand seen the results.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Vizsla

[becks]

old beads?

[Asalei]

I ended up talking to my normal vet that I used before starting work here and he said he'd use the stilbesterol.

So I've asked the vets to do up do up the dosage for me. She'll start tonight.

[OSoSwift]

My old Dobe bitch was on Stilboesterol for quite a few years, she was maintained on one tablet a week for many years, then as she got quite aged she was on one tablet twice a week. SHe never had any problems and I had an entire dog at the time and he was worried by her at all. She stayed perfectly the same as normal.

I know of a few bitches that have used Stilboesterol and cannot remember one of them having any medical issues as a result of the drug.

seeing the other brands are given weekly Im wondering if this dose is huge

No, different drugs have different dose rates, My younger Dobe bitch was on Incurin for about 8 months and she was on every second day. She then didn't need it for a while until having other medical problems resulting in her needing fluid tablets and her incontinence came back.

Edited May 29, 2009 by rommimum