Natural Diets

[Beny]

Hi all

About 3 months ago I started our older dog on a semi natural diet, based on Natural Food Recipes for Healthy Dogs by Carol Boyle. It's hard to sum up the book but I guess it could be described as giving your dog all the nutrients it needs weekly (not necessarily a per-meal basis) by feeding them what you eat for dinner. I still haven't swapped Issy over to a completely natural diet, instead she still gets 2 handfuls of dry food and maybe some cottage cheese if our dinner is lacking calcium that night. She loves her day snacks of apple/peas or carrot. The only problem we have now is that the dog eats healthier than us!

I've found it to be great for her coat and great for my nose . I can't wait till Kira is older and swap her over too.

Has anyone else read this book, or tried the natural diet with their dogs? I'm interested in hearing other people's results.

[Nekhbet]

I would worry about the diets only because dogs and humans are different in their digestion and nutritional needs. Also salt content, spices and I am a big believer that dogs need raw meaty bones not cooked up food.

Every dog and every owner will benefit from the years of research behind the recipes you'll find here. From potato pancakes to macaroni and cheese to beef stew to fried tortillas, these recipes are simple to follow and use easy-to-find ingredients. They take the mystery out of home-cooked diets for your dog, and give you both a natural and healthy way to eat.

potato pancakes and tortillas are not dog food, thats human food 100%. I'd rather stick to a good dry food, some table scraps if they are dog friendly and then raw meaty bones to keep the teeth healthy and the guts moving.

this does worry me -

"I do not consider myself an expert on canine nutrition. All my evidence is anecdotal, from personal experience, over a period of time," (p. 7)

and this review

I cannot recommend this book due to its many dangerous contradictions and its overly commercialized definition of the word "Natural". Dangerous Contradictions Abound: The author writes in the beginning of the book that "...while I cannot guarantee that (our dog's) diet alone yields the optimum nutrition,...I know that I am not filling his (our dog's) body with pesticides..." Since there is NO mention of using organically grown foods (vegetables, grains, meats and fruits), anyone using the standard supermarket ingredients listed in this book IS filling their dog with pesticides, from so-called "fresh" non-organic produce and from the canned non-organic foods recommended. Dangerous Levels of Salt, Fat and Sugar: Early in the book we have one very common sense page about limiting the amount of salt, including an excellent list of items to avoid using in food for your dog that includes parmesan cheese, prepared pasta sauces, chicken broth and bouillon cubes (very high in salt). In fact, most canine nutrition books I have read caution you to NEVER include salt, or if you do, to be sure it is no more than 1/100th the amount you normally use for human food. But then in the actual recipes we find: page 32 - Prepared Chicken Broth (no amount), 1 cube chicken bouillon page 35 - 1 cube beef bouillon page 40 - Salt, 1 cup chicken broth, parmesan cheese page 41 - 2 cups marinara sauce, parmesan cheese page 46 - 2 tsp. salt page 59 - 1 16oz. can of spaghetti sauce She also encourages us to reduce the amount of fat in our diet (p. 126) but then we have: page 40 - 2 tablespoons of butter page 58 - 1 tablespoon of butter page 121 - 3 tablespoons of butter And the same can be said for sugar: page 42 - 4!! tablespoons of white sugar. No dog in the wild would ever eat ANY of these things - why fill your pet with them? Just because it's easy to make your dinner and theirs at the same time??? For me the icing on the cake was her suggestion of serving your dog standard New York style cheesecake, topped with canned blueberry pie filling (p.102) Incredible. This is not my idea of "Natural" food - i.e. a food that is designed to meet a dog's unique nutrition needs. Is it yours?

Edited May 25, 2009 by Nekhbet

[huski]

I've never heard of it so I did a quick google search and found her website:

http://www.naturaldogfood.com/

I feed a raw diet so my dog's don't eat dried food and I consider it pretty 'natural'. What would worry me about her diet is that it seems to have little research behind it - she's feeding her dogs all sorts of foods that I wouldn't consider good for them i.e. in left overs the dogs could be eating onion, garlic, pasta, rice etc all things that IMO are unneccessary to feed. She says that grains like rice are the cornerstone of a good diet whereas I disagree with that - everything I've read about canine diets and health have said feeding grains is not neccessary because dogs can't process them.

The biggest issue I take with her diet is that all the meat she feeds is cooked meat. She actually says in her FAQ that she doesn't recommend feeding raw meat and she won't do it. I feed my dogs cooked meat sometimes as training treats but dogs aren't people and as such we have different dietary needs, ours bodies process things differently etc. Dogs have evolved to get all the nutrients they need from raw meat and bones, and cooking the meat means it loses a lot of the nutrients. Your dog's diet shouldn't lacking in calcium if you are feeding them enough raw bone in their diet.

Edited May 25, 2009 by huski

[huski]

I would worry about the diets only because dogs and humans are different in their digestion and nutritional needs. Also salt content, spices and I am a big believer that dogs need raw meaty bones not cooked up food.

Every dog and every owner will benefit from the years of research behind the recipes you'll find here. From potato pancakes to macaroni and cheese to beef stew to fried tortillas, these recipes are simple to follow and use easy-to-find ingredients. They take the mystery out of home-cooked diets for your dog, and give you both a natural and healthy way to eat.

potato pancakes and tortillas are not dog food, thats human food 100%. I'd rather stick to a good dry food, some table scraps if they are dog friendly and then raw meaty bones to keep the teeth healthy and the guts moving.

Totally agree with the above Nekh, and I also wonder exactly what 'years of research' she's done that indicate dogs need grains and food like fried tortillas as well as all the salts and spices we put in our food for flavour.

[Beny]

I cannot recommend this book due to its many dangerous contradictions and its overly commercialized definition of the word "Natural". Dangerous Contradictions Abound: The author writes in the beginning of the book that "...while I cannot guarantee that (our dog's) diet alone yields the optimum nutrition,...I know that I am not filling his (our dog's) body with pesticides..." Since there is NO mention of using organically grown foods (vegetables, grains, meats and fruits), anyone using the standard supermarket ingredients listed in this book IS filling their dog with pesticides, from so-called "fresh" non-organic produce and from the canned non-organic foods recommended. Dangerous Levels of Salt, Fat and Sugar: Early in the book we have one very common sense page about limiting the amount of salt, including an excellent list of items to avoid using in food for your dog that includes parmesan cheese, prepared pasta sauces, chicken broth and bouillon cubes (very high in salt). In fact, most canine nutrition books I have read caution you to NEVER include salt, or if you do, to be sure it is no more than 1/100th the amount you normally use for human food. But then in the actual recipes we find: page 32 - Prepared Chicken Broth (no amount), 1 cube chicken bouillon page 35 - 1 cube beef bouillon page 40 - Salt, 1 cup chicken broth, parmesan cheese page 41 - 2 cups marinara sauce, parmesan cheese page 46 - 2 tsp. salt page 59 - 1 16oz. can of spaghetti sauce She also encourages us to reduce the amount of fat in our diet (p. 126) but then we have: page 40 - 2 tablespoons of butter page 58 - 1 tablespoon of butter page 121 - 3 tablespoons of butter And the same can be said for sugar: page 42 - 4!! tablespoons of white sugar. No dog in the wild would ever eat ANY of these things - why fill your pet with them? Just because it's easy to make your dinner and theirs at the same time??? For me the icing on the cake was her suggestion of serving your dog standard New York style cheesecake, topped with canned blueberry pie filling (p.102) Incredible. This is not my idea of "Natural" food - i.e. a food that is designed to meet a dog's unique nutrition needs. Is it yours?

I haven't seen that recipe in there but there are some in there I've seen that I will not bother making. I've only cooked the ratatouille and pasta salad from her recipes and Issy still gets raw bones to munch on during the day. Maybe it's a good thing I'm not following it too closely!

Still, I have seen a positive change since we started feeding homemade meatloaf, mash potatoes, chicken stew etc to our furball. But it has only been three months, so hopfully someone else out there has had a good result over a long period of time.

Nek - the table scraps that you feed... would they include a bit of left over pasta and spag bol, or do you mean the fatty bit from meat etc?

[Paganman]

It doesnt sound like a good way to feed a dog IMO no offence but a lot of it sounds stupid most of the stuff she says to feed isnt suitable for dogs at all.And wheres the bones and raw meat?

[huski]

I haven't seen that recipe in there but there are some in there I've seen that I will not bother making. I've only cooked the ratatouille and pasta salad from her recipes and Issy still gets raw bones to munch on during the day. Maybe it's a good thing I'm not following it too closely!

Still, I have seen a positive change since we started feeding homemade meatloaf, mash potatoes, chicken stew etc to our furball. But it has only been three months, so hopfully someone else out there has had a good result over a long period of time.

Nek - the table scraps that you feed... would they include a bit of left over pasta and spag bol, or do you mean the fatty bit from meat etc?

JMHO - but if I wanted to feed a more natural diet, I'd be reading up on raw diets as they are more biologically appropriate for dogs and will give you a better idea of what is suitable. You don't have to completely eliminate the table scraps, but I would be feeding a lot more raw meaty bones etc.

[Beny]

Forgot to mention as well re. the raw meat. She lost two dogs due to high levels of E coli and blames the the meat she got from the slaughterhouse. On her website she does say

"I have been advised that certain parts of the world do not have a problem with raw beef - Australia in particular. And there may be other places.

But as long as I am in the US, and buying my meat and poultry over the counter, I will cook it and recommend you do the same."

Not wanting to be argumentative, but if I had lost 2 out of 8 dogs for this reason, it would put me off (however, I wouldn't write a book advising others to do the same...)

[Nekhbet]

table scraps are depends - if its fridge emptying day then the veges get chucked into the stewpot with some rice and meat scraps. If i'm carving meat they get everything raw. Cooked food, well that depends if its dog friendly in the first place wether they get it or not. I dont cook specifically for them. My grandmother is the best, once we visit there they get leftovers like tomato soup, roasted meats, mash potatos, potato salad, boiled eggs, salad etc but my lot would eat the dirt off your shoes if you let them its occasional.

I think you're better off with raw meaty bones, but there is nothing wrong with the odd treat. Cook for yourself first, dog can have it before its time for the bin if you dont want to eat whats left

[puggy_puggy]

Humans and dogs have different nutritional needs.

Dogs don't need their food cooked.

If your wanting to feed your dogs a natural diet look into BARF, PREY MODE or RAW diets.

Puppies can be fed BARF diet from the time they are weened.

[luvsdogs]

I would start here. http://www.rawmeatybones.com/ Go to media archives - TV clips & watch Tom Lonsdale speak about the benefits of feeding raw.

[Beny]

Thanks guys

[jamie]

I would start here. http://www.rawmeatybones.com/ Go to media archives - TV clips & watch Tom Lonsdale speak about the benefits of feeding raw.

I agree

[espinay2]

I know Carol as she has Pyreneans and I know she has had success with what she does. She does have some interesting ideas. I don't agree with a lot of them though so we agree to disagree! It is not a way I would feed a dog. I feed a natural raw diet based primarily on raw meaty bones. While they do get our healthy table scraps from our meals, I dont cook for them.