Food Aggression

[huski]

I found the same. I love the focus you get with it. I get the dogs to do more than just sit now, I give them other commands i.e. I will have them in sit/stay and will give them the down command, or I will get them to do a recall so they have to run to me and not the food or I'll get them to do a sit/stay while I go into the other room etc just to make it interesting for them.

Your dogs sound really well behaved huski, unfortunately my dogs aren't very good at the down command I have done the recall past the food though. I forgot about one of my dogs one night and left him sitting in his crate with his bowl of food for about fifteen minutes. This is a highly food orientated dog and he never touched it, I was truly amazed.

So to the OP yes, definitely try TOT

They might know the down command but I doubt they would last 15 minutes in a stay That's amazing, Miranda!

[persephone]

I think I might try the advice to get them to eat next to each other tonight.

Please dont!

Your dogs have proven to be food aggressive- Ruffy especially.

To be forced to stay alongside Daisy and watch her eat, may be too much for him to bear

is it difficult for you to feed them completely separate?

Don't you have anywhere with solid ,opaque doors?

One inside, one outside.. or one in bathroom, one in kitchen... with NO vision of the other.

Put then\m where you want them... THEN produce the food.. feed each one separately- leave them for 10 minutes or so.. remove bowls... SEPARATELY.... clean up any crumbs.. and put both dogs outside or in a completely different room/area.

Please don't do that.. you're pretty much asking for serious bloodshed.

Feed them seperately. Do NOT let him in immediately after they have finished eating.. he is still looking for food and is prepared to take out Daisy to get it.

Leave him outside for at least 15 minutes after his dinner and make sure Daisy is nowhere near her feeding spot when he is allowed back in. This behaviour didn't develop overnight and will not disappear overnight either. You need to continue to work on defusing this situation.. it will take weeks.

Daisy does not deserve to be under the constant stress of potentially having to defend her food from a dog that grows larger than her every day. If you insist on feeding them together, she may be seriously injured in a fight.

Well said!

[Miranda]

They might know the down command but I doubt they would last 15 minutes in a stay That's amazing, Miranda!

I was in the kitchen and my partner came in and said "There's something wrong with Cello, he hasn't eaten his dinner!" and I went running in all panicky because I knew if he wasn't eating there was something terribly wrong because this dog lives to eat. Then I remembered that I hadn't given him the 'ok' command

Really amazing for one of my dogs because dog training certainly isn't my forte

[Crazy Daisy]

Ok, I am reading about TOT but I have a question. It says feed all higher members of the pack first. The dogs go outside when we eat so they know we've eaten. They have a run off the laundry and I normally prepare some of their dinner inside (homemade) and then go to the laundry and get the biscuits and bowls and prepare the rest in front of them on the washing machine. Should i then take Daisy inside to eat and then go out to Ruff and try TOT?

[huski]

Ok, I am reading about TOT but I have a question. It says feed all higher members of the pack first. The dogs go outside when we eat so they know we've eaten. They have a run off the laundry and I normally prepare some of their dinner inside (homemade) and then go to the laundry and get the biscuits and bowls and prepare the rest in front of them on the washing machine. Should i then take Daisy inside to eat and then go out to Ruff and try TOT?

I would put Daisy inside and well out of sight of wherever you plan to do TOT with Ruff.

It's important to follow TOT exactly to get the best results, from memory the first stage is to back tie the dog on a rope, then go and prepare the meal inside. So I'd feed Daisy, put Ruff on a tie out and then prepare his food. I wouldn't prepare Daisy's food or feed her in front of Ruff.

I'm no expert though of course so if you want to ask specific questions relating to TOT, post them in the TOT thread and K9 Force will answer them directly

Edited May 22, 2009 by huski

[laffi]

I think TOT is a great tool

Crazy Daisy seems like you don't know very well who is your 'alpha dog' etc. I think you can do more harm trying to establish it and making wrong assumptions on the way.

If I were you I would keep on changing the order you feed them and not worry about 'the order of the pack' too much.

[huski]

I think TOT is a great tool

Crazy Daisy seems like you don't know very well who is your 'alpha dog' etc. I think you can do more harm trying to establish it and making wrong assumptions on the way.

If I were you I would keep on changing the order you feed them and not worry about 'the order of the pack' too much.

I agree Laffi... Often I don't pander to any pack order, if I am giving treats the dog who gets the first one is the dog who obeys me first i.e., the first one to sit when I say sit is the first one to get the treat.

[Crazy Daisy]

Actually Laffi I know alot about pack orders, I have just never owned two dogs of different size that are starting to challenge each other and thought I could get some advice. It is too dangerous to let them have it out when I have a dog that will soon be three to four times the size of a very dominant female.

Thanks Huski, I will ask a couple of questions in the TOT thread. I really appreciate the link.

[Erny]

I was in the kitchen and my partner came in and said "There's something wrong with Cello, he hasn't eaten his dinner!" and I went running in all panicky because I knew if he wasn't eating there was something terribly wrong because this dog lives to eat. Then I remembered that I hadn't given him the 'ok' command

.... I've done the same with my previous girl "Kal" (waiting for me at the RB Bridge, bless her cotton socks) .... ie got distracted then forgot to give the "you can eat command". Until she came in to the room I was in a good time later to 'remind' me. Goodness ..... ya gotta luv 'em .

[Erny]

Well I took the advice to close the door between them while they ate and then when they were finished I took their bowls away and opened the door. Ruff flew through the door and went for Daisy's face!! He saw me take away the bowl through the glass. Daisy drew bood on his leg and 10 secs later they were fine.

I think I might try the advice to get them to eat next to each other tonight.

I wouldn't recommend that. Whilst it might work for some people, doggy manners demands a certain 'personal space' when one or the other is in possession of food. What happened above was that you did not put yourself in a position to prevent Ruff from acting out inappropriately - IOW, you opened the door and let him do what he wanted. Make it so that when one is in its own 'eating room' the other is not allowed to enter and vice versa.

I made this the rule when I had my sister's dog come to stay for 6 weeks (way back when). Initially it meant that I stayed put between the two rooms (ie laundry and bathroom). If one finished and tried to enter the others, he or she was blocked and shooed off. I eventually weaned myself out of the equation but made sure I was ever ready to step in if the 'rule' looked like it might be broken. With consistency in asserting this rule it got to the stage where one would check to see if the other was in its 'room' and if so, would come through to wherever I was. Once the last to eat had finished though, they would each visit the other's 'eating room' and try to lick the enamel off the other's plate .

ETA: And if Ruff is showing aggression as this age (ie 6mo) you really need to get right on top of that and quickly. If you don't it will only escalate.

CD - the point is that YOU must take control. Be there. Use a lead if you must. But SHOW your puppy what he must do and insist on it. Every time.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Erny

[Erny]

Ok, I am reading about TOT but I have a question. It says feed all higher members of the pack first. The dogs go outside when we eat so they know we've eaten. They have a run off the laundry and I normally prepare some of their dinner inside (homemade) and then go to the laundry and get the biscuits and bowls and prepare the rest in front of them on the washing machine. Should i then take Daisy inside to eat and then go out to Ruff and try TOT?

Do TOT with BOTH of them (I mean individually - one at a time .... not both together). It can only do good.

[Crazy Daisy]

Thanks Erny, I will definately give them a totally different space from each other when they eat.

[Pockets]

I would also suggest perhaps bing Ruff back in on lead about 10 or so minutes after dinner, teach him that he only gets to come inside if he relaxes, I would NEVER tolerate a dog rushing back inside at all, even if it were not to have a go at the other dog, but in pure excitement, sounds like Ruff needs to learn some serious boundaries, which means you have to start learning some good techniques

[fainty_girl]

I got my dog Tilly when she was about 8 months old, and in the beginning she was food aggressive towards my other dog Jessie. We took things pretty gradually at first, but now Tilly happily eats her dinner beside Jessie, about a meter apart. They each have to let each other finish, and then at the same time they swap bowls just to check there isn't anything left (they made up this ritual themselves )

I still feed bones (like lamb shanks) separately though - not because i've seen aggression, but just because want them to give each other space when they are eating something that is pretty valuable in the dog world.

Initially I fed them completely separately, then I fed them separately but divided by the pool fence. Gradually I then started feeding them at opposite ends of the kitchen. I didn't do this by myself though - I had my dad help me out, so one of us would keep Tilly at one side of the room with her bowl (Jessie is not the type of dog that has ever fought back in a fight though, so we just had to keep Tilly away from her).

Part of it for our situation was getting Tilly to realise that she wasn't top dog and that there is plenty of food for all (Tilly was a stray, and was extremely food crazed when she came to us...I remember the first day or so that I had her, I just got a glass of water to drink and she got super excited about that).

[Odin-Genie]

I got my dog Tilly when she was about 8 months old, and in the beginning she was food aggressive towards my other dog Jessie. We took things pretty gradually at first, but now Tilly happily eats her dinner beside Jessie, about a meter apart. They each have to let each other finish, and then at the same time they swap bowls just to check there isn't anything left (they made up this ritual themselves )

I still feed bones (like lamb shanks) separately though - not because i've seen aggression, but just because want them to give each other space when they are eating something that is pretty valuable in the dog world.

Initially I fed them completely separately, then I fed them separately but divided by the pool fence. Gradually I then started feeding them at opposite ends of the kitchen. I didn't do this by myself though - I had my dad help me out, so one of us would keep Tilly at one side of the room with her bowl (Jessie is not the type of dog that has ever fought back in a fight though, so we just had to keep Tilly away from her).

Part of it for our situation was getting Tilly to realise that she wasn't top dog and that there is plenty of food for all (Tilly was a stray, and was extremely food crazed when she came to us...I remember the first day or so that I had her, I just got a glass of water to drink and she got super excited about that).

I like that method. For me the key is that the dogs should realise I give them the food and I decide who gets what. They don't get to decide by fighting with each other.

I give them lamb shanks, raw bones and they quietly eat it half a meter from each other on their own rugs. I never leave them alone when they have high value food, but they are quite comfortable being close to each other and eating.

[Crazy Daisy]

Thanks so much for your replies. I think they both know I mean business now

Ruff has been a lot better now and I have worked with him everyday on general obedience and he has calmed down heaps. He even went up a level at training!!

Thanks again

Leah

[persephone]

I think they both know I mean business now wink.gif

Ruff has been a lot better now and I have worked with him everyday on general obedience and he has calmed down heaps. He even went up a level at training!!

Well done, you!