Crazy Daisy Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Hi, This is my first post here so Hi everyone. I have a 3.5 yr old Female Shih Tzu Daisy and a 6mnth Male Ridgeback cross Ruff. Daisy has always been treated as our alfa female and run the household but recently Ruff has started to have a go at her when they are eating. I feed her first in the laundry and he gets fed outside the laundry but I leave the door open. He used to wait outside until she was finished because if he stepped inside she would growl at him. But lately he doesn't care and after finishing his food he goes straight in and pushes her out of the way and eats hers. She puts up a good fight and there has been a few bloody nips here and there but then after dinner they are best friends. This also happens when the kids throw them treats and with three kids under 5 I am really worried they will get in the way one day. These are a few things I've tried. 1. Feed Daisy first and then wait till she is 80% done before feeding Ruff. (He still has a go at her even when she's finished) 2. Started feeding them twice a day and then three times a day. 3. Increased his amount of food. (He got a bit podgy). Any more advice? I love his food drive for training and he is doing so well at obedience but this is getting serious he is twice Daisy's size and still growing. Thanks Leah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) Any more advice? Yes. Close the laundry door. Make sure that the younger dog never has access to the older dog's food. No dog should have to defend its food bowl. You don't get to choose who the alpha dog is - they do that themselves. I would be avoiding all situations in which the dogs feel the need to compete for food. Every time they fight you are opening the door to a possible tragedy. Edited May 21, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) Welcome to DOL, Crazy Daisy . I'm about to skip away to cook dinner, so my post will be short and sweet and lacking in full information. But I know there will be others to follow who will be able to add to this and fill in the blanks for you . First - YOU don't chose who is the higher ranking animal between the two dogs. They will usually do that amongst themselves. Second - YOU must adopt the "leader" stance. In other words, whilst the two dogs will establish the rankings amongst themselves, it is important that you establish yourself as the ultimate leader. The responsibility of leadership (in a nutshell) is protection. The benefit of leadership is (in a nutshell) respect. Third - YOU need to make sure that your smaller dog is able to eat her dinner in peace and that if your younger (although obviously considerably larger) 6mo RR is not observing the signals of your older dog to stop the obnoxious behaviour of stealing food from underneath her, then you will insist on it. This comes from doing what you need to do to by asserting your insistence that your pup observe the rule (ie boundary) you began with ..... ie not entering the older dog's room whilst eating. You set the rule - you shouldn't be allowing your 6mo pup to decide whether he wants to observe it or not. Now, speaking of eating, it's about time I did. Dinner. Yum. Wish it wasn't me who had to go cook it for myself though. Edited May 21, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal House Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Yep, feed them separately from now on, with no access to one another. The younger dog sounds like he is trying to take over from her as alpha dog. You can't pick (as Poodlefan pointed out) who is top dog. Don't let the kids throw treats. Ever. Ruff will need ongoing training by you, so you (and the children) stay top dog. Similar thing happened with my two (in my sig). The older smaller male was always top dog. Then my Staffy female started challenging him. I changed the way I did things then, because of a few fights they had over food (she wasn't too shy to take chunks out of him either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal House Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Oops, and where are the pictures of these two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 What Poodlefan and Erny said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Daisy Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 Thanks for the advice. It certainly looks like Daisy is up for the challenge. I am going to try to add a photo of the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Daisy Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 Yay it worked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatelina Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Welcome Crazy Daisy! Cute puppas! There's some good advice here and if you search on threads aboout being the alpha leader I'm sure you'll find extra info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin-Genie Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I actually trained my dogs to eat at the same time with their bowls in the same room without touching each others' food. Now the one who finishes first walks away. My goldie used to be food aggressive but has no issues now. They sit quietly next to each other and wait for their turn when I give them treats. Worked better for me than trying to manage food aggression. I would recommend training them to not go for each others' food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Daisy Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 Well I took the advice to close the door between them while they ate and then when they were finished I took their bowls away and opened the door. Ruff flew through the door and went for Daisy's face!! He saw me take away the bowl through the glass. Daisy drew bood on his leg and 10 secs later they were fine. I think I might try the advice to get them to eat next to each other tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 (edited) Well I took the advice to close the door between them while they ate and then when they were finished I took their bowls away and opened the door. Ruff flew through the door and went for Daisy's face!! He saw me take away the bowl through the glass. Daisy drew bood on his leg and 10 secs later they were fine. I think I might try the advice to get them to eat next to each other tonight. Please don't do that.. you're pretty much asking for serious bloodshed. Feed them seperately. Do NOT let him in immediately after they have finished eating.. he is still looking for food and is prepared to take out Daisy to get it. Leave him outside for at least 15 minutes after his dinner and make sure Daisy is nowhere near her feeding spot when he is allowed back in. This behaviour didn't develop overnight and will not disappear overnight either. You need to continue to work on defusing this situation.. it will take weeks. Daisy does not deserve to be under the constant stress of potentially having to defend her food from a dog that grows larger than her every day. If you insist on feeding them together, she may be seriously injured in a fight. It takes less than 10 seconds for a small dog to die. Edited May 22, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 (edited) Well I took the advice to close the door between them while they ate and then when they were finished I took their bowls away and opened the door. Ruff flew through the door and went for Daisy's face!! He saw me take away the bowl through the glass. Daisy drew bood on his leg and 10 secs later they were fine. I think I might try the advice to get them to eat next to each other tonight. Just my opinion but there is no way on earth I'd let two dogs that have been acting the way yours have eat together... very dangerous advice IMO. Getting them to eat next to each other now would be asking them to run before they could walk. I would be feeding them one after the other, keeping them seperated when they are eating, and I'd practice TOT with both of them: http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=64101 I think that you gaining control over Ruff when it's food time and teaching him it's a resource you control, not him, will help make a difference. ETA: Even if you feed Daisy and then take Ruff and do TOT with him outside or in another room could be beneficial as it sounds like Ruff is the instigator. Edited May 22, 2009 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Agree with poodlefan - it will take time. Given the size difference between them, I would certainly be careful with this as your little dog could easily be seriously injured if there is an altercation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I would be feeding them one after the other, keeping them seperated when they are eating, and I'd practice TOT with both of them:http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=64101 I think that you gaining control over Ruff when it's food time and teaching him it's a resource you control, not him, will help make a difference. Excellent advice huski, TOT is a very powerful training tool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Thanks Miranda, I've certainly found it useful Daisy's not food aggressive by any means but she is incredibly food driven and has (or had) about zero self control when it comes to food. She enjoys doing TOT because it trains her in food drive, always ends in a food reward and it helps me to put some control in, in an easy way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Thanks Miranda, I've certainly found it useful Me too. I had a very strong willed young man here, he thought he was it and a bit and was really pushing the boundaries. I put him on TOT and it made a world of difference to his behaviour in a matter of days. I apply TOT to everything now not only food, giving them favourite toys or bones, letting them off at the park, whatever they want they have to sit and wait for it until I give the ok. They all have rock solid stays too. I can't recommend TOT highly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 (edited) Thanks Miranda, I've certainly found it useful Me too. I had a very strong willed young man here, he thought he was it and a bit and was really pushing the boundaries. I put him on TOT and it made a world of difference to his behaviour in a matter of days. I apply TOT to everything now not only food, giving them favourite toys or bones, letting them off at the park, whatever they want they have to sit and wait for it until I give the ok. They all have rock solid stays too. I can't recommend TOT highly enough. I found the same. I love the focus you get with it. I get the dogs to do more than just sit now, I give them other commands i.e. I will have them in sit/stay and will give them the down command, or I will get them to do a recall so they have to run to me and not the food or I'll get them to do a sit/stay while I go into the other room etc just to make it interesting for them. Edited May 22, 2009 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I found the same. I love the focus you get with it. I get the dogs to do more than just sit now, I give them other commands i.e. I will have them in sit/stay and will give them the down command, or I will get them to do a recall so they have to run to me and not the food or I'll get them to do a sit/stay while I go into the other room etc just to make it interesting for them. Your dogs sound really well behaved huski, unfortunately my dogs aren't very good at the down command I have done the recall past the food though. I forgot about one of my dogs one night and left him sitting in his crate with his bowl of food for about fifteen minutes. This is a highly food orientated dog and he never touched it, I was truly amazed. So to the OP yes, definitely try TOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin-Genie Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I think I might try the advice to get them to eat next to each other tonight. As others have said, don't do that. Getting to that point takes time. I started training them to eat together when they were pups. But I've felt comfortable leaving them alone in a room to eat by themselves since about the last six months (they are 19 and 15 months old now). It didn't happen in a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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