First Time Puppy Owner Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) Hi There Just been reading this link and is said to choose a supplement with high amount of EPA, DHA, GLA, and vitamin E when trying to aid in the treatment of atopy. http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=...662&aid=666 Choosing a fatty acid supplement Animals being treated for atopy should have supplements with high amounts of EPA, DHA, GLA, and vitamin E. Wondering if anyone knows of one that has all of these inclusive or should I be giving him Cod liver oil, borage oil and vit e tablets? Thanks in advance for you for you thoughts! Edited May 21, 2009 by First Time Puppy Owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I use a combo: salmon oil, evening primrose and vit e... I buy supps separately and give to dogs dosed according to weight. Zayda atm is on Borrage (Star Flower) oil due to the elimination diet. This is a bit more exy as the only brand in Aus seems to be one that does a bottle of 30 caps (at 5 a day that doesn't stretch far)... but it would be good to use in combo with the salmon oil, and I may swap from the EPO when she is back on her full diet. There was a study done on this, I'm trying to locate the info I had on it, but I can't lay my hands on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Eicosaderm has EPA, DHA and vitamin E - no GLA though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Found it! This is from Monica Segal's Dec 07 news letter: Fact of the MonthCertain oils help atopic dermatitis It is common knowledge that essential fatty acids benefit the skin, but did you know that they have a dramatic therapeutic effect as well? This is an important consideration for dog owners who watch their dogs’ skin become drier and drier over the winter months. Commonly, these dogs start to scratch, and as the scratching intensifies, the skin inflames. It can become bad enough that skin infections result. That’s just one case scenario. The other is atopic dermatitis – a fancy way of saying that the dog has an allergic skin reaction. It can flare up in the winter because the dog is indoors more often, thus there is more frequent exposure to dust mites et al. The results of a double blind placebo controlled clinical trial at the Department of Small Animal Clinical Studies, The Norwegian School of Veterinary Science brings us interesting, and applicable information. The study duration was 12 weeks and included 60 dogs with atopic dermatitis. The dogs were randomly selected to receive borage and fish oils or a placebo along with prednisolone. Findings indicate a steroid sparing effect of essential fatty acid supplementation in canine atopic dermatitis. There is a time lag before the effect is attained. Results became more and more dramatic as the study grew closer to day 84. Based on the information above, and the fact that I work with some dogs that have allergies of all sorts, I have used primrose oil in lieu of borage oil was not tolerated, and flaxseed oil when fish is not tolerated. Further, I have found that some dogs, although reactive to one particular oil if it is fed daily, do not react if these oils are rotated. I have seen extremely positive results when adding oils in this rotation: Day 1: Primrose oil Day 2: Wild Salmon oil Day 3: Borage oil Day 4: Flaxseed oil Don’t forget to include vitamin E when you add fat to your dog’s diet. I've steered clear of flax because, anecdotal evidence it seems a lot of dogs (regardless of allergies) don't tolerate it well (and this seems to apply to alfalfa too - certainly the case for Zayda). Make sure your Vit E is from a natural and not a synthetic source, and it's important to check what it comes from if the dog has food allergies (same as what the capsules are made from if you feed them the whole lot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Oh, and I suppose I should say that I don't use a blend myself because they tend to use generic oily fish, which I have to be careful of with Zayda's allergies. So it gives me more control to buy and combine myself. It would depend on your dog as to if that is relevant or not. It's also a good idea if you use fish oil to make sure the company checks for heavy metal contamination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 Ok, can you buy borage oil in a liquid form and is there any one out there that uses fish oil in a liquid form as well? Then I am wondering if you do that how much you give of each?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Another thing to consider is that modern diets are often very high in Omega - 6s so it's actually the omega-3s that need high supplementation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) Ok, can you buy borage oil in a liquid form and is there any one out there that uses fish oil in a liquid form as well? Then I am wondering if you do that how much you give of each?! General rule of thumb is one 1000mg cap per 5 kilos of dog. I think there are some fish oils you can get in liquids, someone else may know. Nature's own seem to be the only one's who make borage oil supps: http://www.naturesown.com.au/main.php#/products/results/ Look for Starflower oil (it was rebranded for some reason). I use caps... if you can't feed the cap, it's easy enough to stick a skewer in and squirt the oil out (which is what we have to do for Zayda atm). ETA: Caps last longer than bottles of oil and are often easier to deal with... should still be refrigerated though. Edited May 21, 2009 by zayda_asher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 Yeah I was wondering about that ZA as I feed Artemis Maximal Dog - will need to pull the packet out of it's bin and have a look cause I couldn't find that info on their website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 If it's not on the pack, you can prolly get a rough guide from one of the on line analysis sites by checking the meat for Omega-6s... it's normally the meat component that is high due to the change in how we feed the animals (grain fed etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) Ok out these what is a better combo of EPA / DHA in Salmon Oil and do you give a few less capsulas of Salmon Oil than Fish Oil as the mg of bith EPA and DHA are higher? Greenridge Wild Salmon Oil -180mg EPA / 120mg DHA Gold Seal Wild Salmon Oil - 160mg EPA / 140mg DHA Edit - Plus how much in mg of Vit e should you give? What I am thinking is I get the Salmon Oil, give Benson 7 capsulas a day cause he weighs 38 kgs, but how much vitamin E? Edited May 21, 2009 by First Time Puppy Owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Go the one with the 180mg EPA... that's actually the most beneficial, so best to have it in the higher amount. When we were put on EFAs were were told to look for 180mg EPA in the caps, and still @ 1 per 5 kilos Vit E I honestly can't remember how you dose for... I think it's on weight and relation to oils again... I give 1 500 I.U d-alpha tocopherol (dl-alpha is your synthetic type) cap a day, which is prolly a bit more than you need, but shouldn't hurt. Did a quick google and couldn't find much, however, you can get fish oils that have E added so you don't have to worry about adding your own too... Here's some info on the omega-6s http://www.thewholedog.org/id23.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) Go the one with the 180mg EPA... that's actually the most beneficial, so best to have it in the higher amount. When we were put on EFAs were were told to look for 180mg EPA in the caps, and still @ 1 per 5 kilos Vit E I honestly can't remember how you dose for... I think it's on weight and relation to oils again... I give 1 500 I.U d-alpha tocopherol (dl-alpha is your synthetic type) cap a day, which is prolly a bit more than you need, but shouldn't hurt. Did a quick google and couldn't find much, however, you can get fish oils that have E added so you don't have to worry about adding your own too... Here's some info on the omega-6s http://www.thewholedog.org/id23.html Cool well I will get the Greenridge once he finishes the performa 3 (probably about 2 litres to go) and get some vit E tabs and leave it at that seeing as his kibble more than likely covers the omega 6 requirements. Thank you so much for your help ZA - just so much to get the head around and I would hate to over dose on something and make him worse. Edited May 21, 2009 by First Time Puppy Owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 No worries Just on a quick look around you could probably do one Vit E cap a week or something @ 500 IU... I'm going to look into that more and I'll let you know what I find... Actually just figured out I can work it out from Optimal Nutrition, but I need glen home to help make sure I do the math right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 No worries Just on a quick look around you could probably do one Vit E cap a week or something @ 500 IU... I'm going to look into that more and I'll let you know what I find... Actually just figured out I can work it out from Optimal Nutrition, but I need glen home to help make sure I do the math right! Awesome - please do post when you have figured it out (don't give the OH too much credit though cause their head swell too easily ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Awesome - please do post when you have figured it out (don't give the OH too much credit though cause their head swell too easily ) Will do.. and don't worry, the OH knows I only keep him on for his math and computer skills... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 Awesome - please do post when you have figured it out (don't give the OH too much credit though cause their head swell too easily ) Will do.. and don't worry, the OH knows I only keep him on for his math and computer skills... :love: I really needed an OH last week cause I had no idea where the spark plug was on my lawn mower but mother's showed me and I replaced it and go it going again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I really needed an OH last week cause I had no idea where the spark plug was on my lawn mower but mother's showed me and I replaced it and go it going again! Well done!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Time Puppy Owner Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 That should have read mother's partner I really need to proof read before posting By the way any luck with the Vit E calculations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 That should have read mother's partner I really need to proof read before posting Meh. Proof shmoof, we knew what you meant By the way any luck with the Vit E calculations? Not yet, was helping with a seminar last night for work, didn't get home til late... hopefully over the w/end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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